Kavik Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 My agility club has had a few incidents lately, and instructors are considering asking the problem dogs to wear muzzles to class. I was wondering if anyone had recommendations for a good basket muzzle that would allow the dog to breathe easily and run and take treats through it. One dog is a Staffy and the other is a Border Collie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 My agility club has had a few incidents lately, and instructors are considering asking the problem dogs to wear muzzles to class. I was wondering if anyone had recommendations for a good basket muzzle that would allow the dog to breathe easily and run and take treats through it. One dog is a Staffy and the other is a Border Collie. Maybe best if the owners went & had a look at a few & got one fitted. What a great idea .... I might make that suggestion at our club, as we have two cattle dogs that are DA , both belong to the one owner & if she wasn't such a good club member, then they wouldn't be allowed there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Late Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 Jafco basket muzzles are awesome. Allow the dog to pant, bark, drink and take treats. We love ours :) they come in either black or clear. We got it from K9Pro who send you a muzzle conditioning info sheet with it to get you off on the right foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) My agility club has had a few incidents lately, and instructors are considering asking the problem dogs to wear muzzles to class. I was wondering if anyone had recommendations for a good basket muzzle that would allow the dog to breathe easily and run and take treats through it. One dog is a Staffy and the other is a Border Collie. Call me harsh but I'd be giving them a holiday to work on sorting out reactivity. DA dogs are still capable of creating problems for other dogs when muzzled and if a dog decides to react back, they are sitting ducks. There is also the issue of the muzzle creating a catch hazard on equipment. They simply shouldn't be off lead in high arousal situations IMO. It isn't fair to other handlers. God knows you'd not want them trialing. Edited September 11, 2015 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 I agree and one has had many chances already, but I'm not the one calling the shots on this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) I agree and one has had many chances already, but I'm not the one calling the shots on this one When the situation escalates ( and it tends to) you might be happy about that. If the handler cannot control the dog then it's a bloody nightmare for everyone else in the class. The liability issues of KNOWING a dog is a problem and continuing to allow it to participate shouldn't be discounted. Edited September 11, 2015 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) One is apparently fine in obedience (on the same grounds even) but is chasing other dogs at agility. So IMO it is a movement/arousal issue. I haven't met that dog yet, they want me to meet it next week if it comes to class. The other one is leaving the equipment to rush other dogs, has rushed my dog twice. This dog is on its last chance. I have recommended it go to someone we know that specialises in the breed and is very knowledgeable for private lessons. It is a very busy club, I think it would be better suited somewhere quieter. Edited September 11, 2015 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) I haven't done agility for quite a few years now but our club introduced "control tests" that checked out dogs with other dogs before they could commence agility training. They were introduced because the club was experiencing issues like you describe. We had obedience titled dogs fail. The level of arousal tends to spill some dogs over the edge. And when there were issues, it was largely the handler's failure to monitor the dog and react to recall it that were at fault. The time to get your dog's attention is when its next to you eyeing up another dog, not 20 feet away charging at it. Holidays are sometimes the only way of convincing a handler that the issue is serious and that THEY have to do something about it. Agility triallers won't manage their dogs for the benefit of a handler with control issues. Dogs cannot compete muzzled. To allow them to continue to train without that control is setting them up for a very public holiday following on from an aggression incident. You're doing the handler a favour if you insist they get the dog under control. Edited September 11, 2015 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) We are thinking of introducing a test like that for our club as well. I think we need to compile a list of people to send them to, it is not overly helpful to tell them to go away and come back when they have fixed the issues, they probably have no idea of where or how to start. I've raised this point as well. I am not in a position of power at the club, just a volunteer instructor. Having been on the other side, with an aggressive dog at agility training, I understand how the handlers feel, and one is only a teenager. I decided that the club was not the right environment for Zoe, and we stopped going to club training. Edited September 11, 2015 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J... Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 It's not just their mouth you need to worry about A friend's young dog was seriously injured when another dog ran off and collected her on the way into a tunnel. I agree with HW - there is no room for dogs not under effective control in an environment like agility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverStar-Aura Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 In a way I understand having a dog run off during agility -- both trials and training, however, mine is just intent on exploring the universe rather than rushing other dogs. I'm only new to trialling myself but sadly I've seen quite a few narky dogs that get so feral if another even walks past within a 10 metre radius. What I've also noticed is that not once did any of these dogs' owners give warnings that their dogs are reactive. If these particular dogs have caused problems before and continue to misbehave, if be giving them marching orders. OT: it was awesome to meet you at the Festival last weekend Kavik! Even though I came away with no prizes or qualies I (we) had an awesome 2 days!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 My dogs have run off before too :) I think it is only really a massive issue if they are rushing other dogs. It was great to meet you at the Festival too RiverStar-Aura! :) I had one clear round (FCC agility), 3 x 1 fault rounds (so close!) and 2 x DQ due to off course obstacles (those tunnels are just way too tempting sometimes :laugh: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agility Dogs Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 I agree with the others that dogs with aggression issues shouldn't be placed in an environment where they can do damage to others and themselves - muzzled or otherwise. I do think the muzzles could be really useful to work with the dogs in an environment that is less stimulating than competition training, but perhaps more so than obedience. At our club we've split the classes so that we have one night for dogs titled in agility and another night where dogs can work in a less stimulating environment on their foundations. It works really well and helps owners with focus issues work through that as well. Our club has adopted a one strike and you're out policy for the triallers class. They then go back to an on lead status in foundations. It's worked really well for the owners who have taken it on board and worked with it rather than throwing their toys out of the cot and leaving. Either way I think it's great the committee are starting to think about how to manage classes a bit better. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superminty Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 I like the Baskerville muzzles. Light weight, easy to feed treats through, no issues with dog drinking. I notice the Petstock's down here in Vic sell them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaCharlie Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 One is apparently fine in obedience (on the same grounds even) but is chasing other dogs at agility. So IMO it is a movement/arousal issue. I haven't met that dog yet, they want me to meet it next week if it comes to class. The other one is leaving the equipment to rush other dogs, has rushed my dog twice. This dog is on its last chance. I have recommended it go to someone we know that specialises in the breed and is very knowledgeable for private lessons. It is a very busy club, I think it would be better suited somewhere quieter. If one of these is the novice dog I am thinking of it turned a few heads at he FOA last weekend. Left the ring to rush aggressively at a passing dog, someone on the sideline and also the judge. It didn't return the second day. A muzzle would not help in that situation as the intent is still there and it doesn't address the problem of why the dog is rushing at people and dogs in the first place. The dog needs behaviourist help, not just private agility lessons. I used to train my Cody in a muzzle as he felt so much more comfortable and happy in it. He learnt quickly that wearing the muzzle meant people kept their space and he didn't feel in the position to make that decision to snap because he couldn't escape. He wasn't one to leave a course to chase a dog though so the club had no issues with him being there. My preference is for a working stock dog-type muzzle. They are designed for a dog to work in all day without restricting breathing, drinking etc and to reduce the risk of the dog catching itself on anything. They are basket type so easy to feed treats through. Not sure that they would fit a staffy face though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted September 12, 2015 Author Share Posted September 12, 2015 One is apparently fine in obedience (on the same grounds even) but is chasing other dogs at agility. So IMO it is a movement/arousal issue. I haven't met that dog yet, they want me to meet it next week if it comes to class. The other one is leaving the equipment to rush other dogs, has rushed my dog twice. This dog is on its last chance. I have recommended it go to someone we know that specialises in the breed and is very knowledgeable for private lessons. It is a very busy club, I think it would be better suited somewhere quieter. If one of these is the novice dog I am thinking of it turned a few heads at he FOA last weekend. Left the ring to rush aggressively at a passing dog, someone on the sideline and also the judge. It didn't return the second day. A muzzle would not help in that situation as the intent is still there and it doesn't address the problem of why the dog is rushing at people and dogs in the first place. The dog needs behaviourist help, not just private agility lessons. Could possibly be the one you are thinking of, the BC, they were at FOA and apparently there was an incident with them while they were there on Saturday (I didn't see it so not sure what happened). They have been referred to Vickie to see if she can help them, I hope they take up the offer :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I'm very late to this party but I would be protesting to teh club committee about this if these dogs were allowed to train. How terrible it must be for other dogs to be chased down by an aggressive dog. The other dog doesn't know that the aggressor isn't muzzled. Imagine how much tension there must be in the air between dogs? Dogs are expert body language readers and I know my sensitive boy would feel uncomfortable in the company of aggressive dogs. Our club (which is considered the leading one in our state) has a very simple rule: run off once, even to have a friendly play with other dogs, and you're on lead (not using any equipment) for the rest of the night. If the dog is at all aggressive then they can't be on the grounds and the committee will decide whether the dog can continue training. I can't think of the last time we had an incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted September 25, 2015 Author Share Posted September 25, 2015 Not sure what the outcome is yet, haven't had a chance to talk to many people about it lately, been very wet and training cancelled or not many people there. AGM is coming up in a couple of weeks, and I am sure this will come up then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 I think we need to compile a list of people to send them to, it is not overly helpful to tell them to go away and come back when they have fixed the issues, they probably have no idea of where or how to start. I've raised this point as well. I am not in a position of power at the club, just a volunteer instructor. FYI, I run "Volatile Dogs" classes in southern Sydney these days. May be a limited time thing as research plus consulting and classes is killing me, but then again, may even start a second class if the demand is there. Mostly we concentrate on regulating arousal and getting dogs and handlers talking to each other. It often makes a big difference once the dogs realise their handlers are listening to them. I vote for Baskervilles because they are cheaper and easier to get hold of than Jafco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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