Responsibly Walking Entire Dog

[bristley]

Hi,

we've enquired about getting a dalmatian puppy with a breeder. The breeder recommends/requires/would really like the male puppy not to be desexed until 18 months.

I grew up with desexed male dogs (from the rspca) - what is the etiquette for walking an entire dog.

I've done some searches - I've found a lot of threads saying that people with intact dogs need to be responsible but I haven't found anything with full details as to what that entails.

We've got 6 foot fences - so for the purposes of this discussion lets pretend/agree that the dog is not getting out of the yard because it smells an enticing female.

Do I not take it to dog parks once it gets to about 8 months?

Do I only take it to dog parks when they are empty - the one around the corner from us is empty in the mornings when I walk by for example.

Do I not let it off leash at the beach if there are any other dogs around - just in case his recall (or is that my recall) is not perfect?

The only large fenced off-leash area near us is the dog park and I've been reading about how much activity a dalmatian needs - and looking to it :-)

Is there anything else - etiquette wise I should know?

thanks

Bristley

[RiverStar-Aura]

Don't let him p*ss on parked cars. This is a huge peeve of mine and doesn't just refer to entire males either!

I've never owned an entire male either but I have a feeling never taking him to a park is little over the top; I've seen plenty of well behaved entire males playing off leash. I do commend you for asking these questions to help you be a better owner. Perhaps talk to your dog's breeder too.

[Dame Aussie]

I would just treat him the same as a desexed dog. If he has no recall he shouldn't be off lead at all but as long as you have him under control I don't see why he couldn't be off lead. For him to impregnate a bitch she would have to be in season so realistically her owner should have control over her also.

[Simply Grand]

Oh good on you for asking the question!! So good to hear :)

You do need to be resonsible with an entire dog and in my opinion the biggest responsibility is keeping them well contained as if they escape and are away from you is when they are most likely to mate. As far as normal outings go though it shouldn't be much more difficult with an entire male than a desexed male. The main issue you are likely to have is your boy having aggression issues with other entire dogs, males especially, and them having issues with him, once he starts to become sexually mature, so from about 8 months onwards. I think a lot of this comes down to temperament rather than just whether the dogs are entire or not so it will just be a matter of being very aware of how your dog is behaving towards other dogs and how they are behaving towards him.

If your dog shows a tendency towards humping/mounting other dogs at all you will really need to be on top of it as an entire male mounting will likely cause a stronger reaction than a desexed male. But a strong recall, leave it and other training that you would want to teach any dog will help with that.

My entire female is around entire males regularly and though she gets all silly flirty with some of them she interacts with most of them as she does any other dog. She does get slightly more cranky when she is approaching a season and some dogs will show more interest in sniffing and/or mounting her a couple of weeks before a season but we have never had an issue, I just have to make sure I pay attention and when she starts showing those signs I stop taking her to places where there are other dogs and just walk her on lead around the streets. Most entire female owners know enough not to have them around other dogs when in season, as is our responsibility IMO, but do just be aware that if someone does happen to take an entire bitch in season somewhere where there are a lot of dogs entire males are likely to be triggered to fight over her with all the hormones floating around, I've heard about it happening but never seen it so I'd say it's something to be aware of but not overly worried about.

Good luck, and can't wait for Dalmatian puppy pics :)

Edited September 8, 2015 by Simply Grand

[Diva]

I have had several entire males and had no behaviours from them that were troublesome. Actually now I come to think on it I have never desexed a male. Yes you will need good fences, but that is true for any dog I would have thought. Mine also mixed with other males without hassle, but that might be a temperament/breed thing. Just good responsible dog ownership should cover it, with maybe a bit more clarity in teaching what it isn't acceptable to pee on.

[bristley]

Thanks Everyone. That's very reassuring - and such kind answers.

(Puts cars on list of things not to let dog pee on).

The breeder says that her male is not a problem so I'm hoping temperament will be on my side.

I did ask the breeder about dog parks but she has a large property and doesn't like dog parks because of risk - which I understand.

In our case, we are on a normal suburban block and there is this nice large fenced dog park really close - and it's empty in the mornings when I go by after dropping the kids at school. We know some people who go there and from what I've seen the dogs there seem to be generally under control and having fun - and a larger open area to play in might help a dalmatian shake the fidgets out - as I'm unable to provide it with a stage coach or horse drawn fire engine to run after.

I will talk to her more about male management on Saturday when we go to visit the puppies. (ooh puppies).

[persephone]

What a sensible question :)

training, training, training ... good communication between both of you is the key to it all . If , as a youngster, he looks to you for everything wonderful ...and knows his lessons - that's a perfet start .

you may have read this already - but will post it again :)

Socialising your pup

[juice]

Just remember this breed is bred to run the distance, they need alot of offlead running! ( or get him to run alongside a bike?)

My boy still went out twice a day for a an hour each time offlead running after bunnies, till he was way over 12!

They seem to be in fashion again, we have 2 near us now, both walked onlead up the street and back, it breaks my heart.

I don't see how the breeder can enforce anything you do after you pay for him, but if you want to keep him entire, i have noticed other dogs tend to have a go at them more, perhaps they see them as a threat?

Also bear in mind dallys suffer from stone forming, my male had 2 blockages during his life, even with a diet to help prevent it.

if it sounds like i am trying to put you off, i am , unless you are really committed to them and their needs dont do it.

Edited September 8, 2015 by juice

[The Spotted Devil]

As a Dally owner I'm with juice - they do need lots of mental stimulation and physical exercise. My entire male is now 8.5 and he's always been a target for other male dogs so I only ever run him with females apart from a few rare occasions where I know and trust the other male not to start something. He's a HUGE leg lifter but never inappropriately at home even with bitches in season in the house. He's never toileted in the ring either but I concentrate on staying connected with him, putting toileting on cue and using it as part of my reward system. As a youngster - walking on sidewalks required concentration as he would happily pee on ANYTHING. Definitely do your research about diet too.

This is my Ziggy this weekend just gone...

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1486321388329566&id=100008551569765

Edited September 8, 2015 by The Spotted Devil

[megan_]

Not a dally owner but can verify was TSD says. My happy-go-lucky little mutt had a go at her Dally at agility training. He has never, ever done anything like that ever, even if another dog is taking eyes at him (which Ziggy wasn't, he was just sitting there). Fortunately, his recall and common sense prevailed and he came running back to me, but he had to be carried from the course because he wanted to go back...

[LisaCC]

I agree with what TSD said. My intact male doesn't have any aggression or behavioural problems but does seem to be a target for other males, and not just intact ones.

My boy loves to mark (never inside or in inappropriate places), but I also use that to my advantage in training. If he's walking nicely on leash for a block or so I'll release him to mark on a favourite tree. Again though, my desexed boy was also a big marker...

There is a thread going in general already about dog parks, I'm not a fan of them anyway for reasons many people state in that thread. But if you must be sensible, learn to read dog behaviour well, avoid peak hours, have a great recall, be aware that other males might not take to him, and yes some people are stupid enough to take bitches on heat to dog parks...

Edited September 9, 2015 by LisaCC

[Salukifan]

I have two entire male dogs, admitedly of a breed where dog to dog issues are not common. They mix regularly with other entire males they know and are polite and well mannered among female dogs (because a few bitches have taught them manners),

It's amazing how the general pressure to desex dogs has led to a perception among some people that an entire male dog must automatically be a handful. There's no question they can be "more dog" than others but that doesn't always equate to issues.

Look at your dog, watch his behaviour, train him well and manage him accordingly. There are some sensible precautions any entire male dog owner should take about mixing with UNKNOWN entire male dogs and of course with entire bitches in season. For me, that rules out dog parks unless empty or you know the occcupants well.

But they are way more than a pair of testicles and raging hormones on legs. I think your breeder's advice to wait until full maturity is very sensible and unless you have having issues with him, I'd not worry about desexing him at all.

When people want to let their dogs rush my boys I tell them that my dogs are entire and may not take kindly to strange males... that seems to do the trick.

Edited September 9, 2015 by Haredown Whippets

[denali]

Some excellent suggestions and points in here, i have nothing new to add except to say thank you for doing your research and asking questons!

So good to see a responsible, caring owner who wants the best for their future dog. I can tell already that your dog will be a lucky one!

[Nekhbet]

Troublesome behavior and being a nasty turd of an animal comes down to lack of socialisation and training more then the fact he has testicles. The vast majority of difficult behvior dogs are desexed with my client base. I have entire dogs, they're not more difficult then the desexed ones I have. I run 7 dogs together when I am home, 6 are bitches.

[silentchild]

As a Dally owner I'm with juice - they do need lots of mental stimulation and physical exercise.

This is the reason I can't see myself ever owning a Dally even though they are my all-time favourite breed and I've longed and longed for one ever since I was a little girl. Working breeds are one thing but the exercise requirements of a Dal sound like a whole different level altogether!

Maybe one day when I win the lotto and own acres and acres and acres of land. *dreams*

[Steph M]

Troublesome behavior and being a nasty turd of an animal comes down to lack of socialisation and training more then the fact he has testicles. The vast majority of difficult behvior dogs are desexed with my client base. I have entire dogs, they're not more difficult then the desexed ones I have. I run 7 dogs together when I am home, 6 are bitches.

Best way with words. Hahaha.

[The Spotted Devil]

As a Dally owner I'm with juice - they do need lots of mental stimulation and physical exercise.

This is the reason I can't see myself ever owning a Dally even though they are my all-time favourite breed and I've longed and longed for one ever since I was a little girl. Working breeds are one thing but the exercise requirements of a Dal sound like a whole different level altogether!

Maybe one day when I win the lotto and own acres and acres and acres of land. *dreams*

Yes and no :) They are no different to any other dog in some respects. I expect juice and I and other lovers of the breed will tell you THE WORST things about them because they were so exploited and romanticised by those bloody movies and we see so many dogs called "Pongo" that end up in rescue. They shed like all get out, they love to RUN and they don't hang on your every word like my Springers seem to naturally do. But my Zig doesn't nick off hunting like the Springers do either :laugh: I live on 3/4 acre but I guarantee I will trip over my Spotty Dog at least once a day...and if I can't find him I just look for the nearest central heating vent! I am his world and he is so devoted it's difficult to feel worthy. He's been my best teacher. And any dog that pulls off an Ag Ch can't be all bad :D

Oh and Em felt so easy after Zig....and then along came Ginny I blame the breeder!

Edited September 9, 2015 by The Spotted Devil

[silentchild]

As a Dally owner I'm with juice - they do need lots of mental stimulation and physical exercise.

This is the reason I can't see myself ever owning a Dally even though they are my all-time favourite breed and I've longed and longed for one ever since I was a little girl. Working breeds are one thing but the exercise requirements of a Dal sound like a whole different level altogether!

Maybe one day when I win the lotto and own acres and acres and acres of land. *dreams*

Yes and no :) They are no different to any other dog in some respects. I expect juice and I and other lovers of the breed will tell you THE WORST things about them because they were so exploited and romanticised by those bloody movies and we see so many dogs called "Pongo" that end up in rescue. They shed like all get out, they love to RUN and they don't hang on your every word like my Springers seem to naturally do. But my Zig doesn't nick off hunting like the Springers do either :laugh: I live on 3/4 acre but I guarantee I will trip over my Spotty Dog at least once a day...and if I can't find him I just look for the nearest central heating vent! I am his world and he is so devoted it's difficult to feel worthy. He's been my best teacher. And any dog that pulls off an Ag Ch can't be all bad :D

Oh and Em felt so easy after Zig....and then along came Ginny I blame the breeder!

Mr Ag Ch Zig is amazing - I think he is the only Dal that I've actually seen doing agility! Shedding I am sadly used to it - my Aussie sheds like she's trying to knit me a sweater daily, and I also trip over her at least once a day! She does hang onto my every word though, being a herding breed with all that will! to! pleaseee!! I don't know how I'd handle the challenge of training a stubborn Dal that isn't falling over himself to obey my every word. I think I'd end up in tears after being so spoilt with an easy Aussie that was born knowing how to do UDX, LOL. :D And all that running! I don't know how I'd ever manage to run a Dal for miles without acreage! Long leisurely hikes I enjoy but running... ack! I don't bike either so that's another no go! How often and how much do you need to run Zig?

I feel like Dallies are dogs that deserve really special homes with truly devoted owners to fill all their needs. I know I could probably provide an okay life for one, but the exercise requirements and apparent training difficulty makes me think I'm probably not a good candidate, unless I take it to lure coursing every day or something ha ha.

Sorry OP, I've gone so off-topic, didn't mean to derail your thread!

Edited September 9, 2015 by silentchild

[The Spotted Devil]

Well let me tell you I don't do any of the running lol! Nice walks on the beach and in the forest with LOTS of recall practice to keep him on his Spotted toes. It's hard to look back and remember how many struggles I had with Zig because he's such a breeze now...right now he's grumbling in his bed because the girls are playing too rough. Nowhere near him mind you :laugh:

[silentchild]

No TSD you're supposed to tell me how difficult he is and what a nightmare it is to run 546kms a day and how he is a monster to train and how Dalmatians are the worst! dogs! ever!

Now you are making me want one even more. Long walks on the beach and in the bush, lots of training, plus trips to the dog pool weekly are already things I am accustomed to doing. Don't tell me a Dal would fit in! I won't hear of it! :laugh: