Raw Diet + Blood Panels

[aussielover]

My boy has been on prey model raw for around 16 months and was on kibble + raw from as soon as he could chew (started at our breeder). I modify it slightly with supplements. I am not a PMR zealot as not all he is fed is on the bone.

Being a bit of a doggy health and nutrition nutcase I wanted to make sure that what I was feeding was good for my boy and not just feeding my own views on natural feeding or Dog forbid - ego. My vet is pro kibble but has always commented that Ronin was in perfect condition and to not change a thing with his diet, but I always had a lingering worry that I might not be doing the best possible for my boy.

People always say the best food for your dog is the food they do best on. I suppose this is true to an extent, but unless we know what is going on inside we really are only guessing that the food is good or we put all of our trust into the food we buy. External checks are good but long term is where diet will really reveal any health issues.

So anyway, the results came back and I went through them with my vet. Calcium : Phosphorus is what I really was interested in as I think this is the trickiest with raw feeding in my opinion and I believe that many people feed way too much bone. Our vet was very impressed, everything came back perfect, and something he rarely sees according to him, again I will say he normally is a pro kibble vet, but never said to me at any stage I shouldn't feed raw. I do press my vet to be harsh with me for anything related to health and condition as I am not needing him to be gentle with me :D I do feel from reading many posts and talking to lots of people that many feed too much bone regardless of whether they are on kibble or raw.

So while this may come across as a self congratulatory post, my point is that I think it is very valuable to do blood panels regularly and not just when you dog is ill. Don't overdo bone as calcium can bind zinc and lead to a myriad of problems.

For what its worth I feed 10 - 12% edible over the course of a week, most days I balance everything (over the two meals) as I have a routine that is very easy for me now :)

Your vet hardly ever sees normal blood panels? That seems unlucky.

I would absolutely expect a normal blood panel in a young dog whether on a good quality raw diet or kibble diet.

Sometimes BUN can be slightly elevated due to a higher protein intake, but otherwise it would be surprising to see an abnormality in an otherwise healthy dog of Ronin's age.

But I agree that it is good to get regular bloods done- of anything they can act as a baseline and you can pick up changes early on. Good on you for being so pro active about your dogs health!

[Yonjuro]

He said he rarely sees a dog with nothing that needs any attention, bloods, eyes, coat and weight. :) So perhaps I am overstating the blood results. It was something that I wanted to do due to the raw diet he is on. My own research is one thing but I wanted to have it backed up with something tangible. Being a predominately Prey Model raw diet, I really wanted to make sure I was doing the best for Ronin and not the best for my ego

I am just fastidious to the point of being obsessed after nursing my previous dog through 8 of her 14 years with numerous complaints. I set out to research everything I could before Ronin came into my life and truly believe in being proactive - I am sure I could have done more for my old girl if I knew more at the time, and this makes me a little sad

I also accept that he is young and therefore should be in good health a good breeding certainly plays a big part :-) I meet so many Huskies on a large group I am part of, unfortunately many similar aged dogs have so many problems, but I do hear some mind boggling diets out there - cheese and crackers being one

[aussielover]

Sorry I must have misunderstood your first post :)

Just out of interest, how much bone does he get in his diet?

I definitely think minimally processed diets for both dog and humans are the way to go (unless they have a specific medical condition- in which case prescription diets work well).

I try to minimize bone in my dogs diet as she doesn't chew properly and has gotten one stuck in her intestine before! She does well with chicken frames and lamb flaps. It seems to be enough variety for her.

[Yonjuro]

Sorry I must have misunderstood your first post :)

Just out of interest, how much bone does he get in his diet?

I definitely think minimally processed diets for both dog and humans are the way to go (unless they have a specific medical condition- in which case prescription diets work well).

I try to minimize bone in my dogs diet as she doesn't chew properly and has gotten one stuck in her intestine before! She does well with chicken frames and lamb flaps. It seems to be enough variety for her.

Your comments didn't sound to me like you misunderstood my first post - you make valid points :)

I try and feed 10% bone on average over a week. A certain amount is very much guess work as some meals are fed on the bone - 1/4 chicken with organs for example. And another day might just be muscle meat and organs without bones. My main concern has always been calcium phosphorus ratio. I also feel that gross errors in feeding can cause so many problems in later life.

My previous dog was fed kibble with recreational bones. She went on a prescription Hills diet for a while, but that had no effect on the crystal formation. Bones + Kibble seemed to be where her problems stemmed from, plus breed and genetics I guess I am also not suggesting that bones and kibble is bad for all dogs, nor am I suggesting that prescription diets are bad or ineffective. I do however think kibble plus a lot of bone is bad - but that is an whole subject on its own :)

[Dave-o]

He said he rarely sees a dog with nothing that needs any attention, bloods, eyes, coat and weight. :)

I'm not surprised given the diets most people feed...

If you take an average kibble and compare it to a properly thought out homemade diet then there's no comparison. But for anyone feeding raw you really need to put the research in to ensure you're covering all bases, same for us humanfolk - I was getting really tired for a while then realised I hadn't had much iron in my diet of late. A meat binge rectified it almost immediately :D It's so easy to miss something, especially when you're feeding a diet that doesn't vary much day to day.

[Yonjuro]

He said he rarely sees a dog with nothing that needs any attention, bloods, eyes, coat and weight. :)

I'm not surprised given the diets most people feed...

If you take an average kibble and compare it to a properly thought out homemade diet then there's no comparison. But for anyone feeding raw you really need to put the research in to ensure you're covering all bases, same for us humanfolk - I was getting really tired for a while then realised I hadn't had much iron in my diet of late. A meat binge rectified it almost immediately :D It's so easy to miss something, especially when you're feeding a diet that doesn't vary much day to day.

Agreed :)

I rotate the proteins daily as I believe it gives a far better spread of nutrients and also limits the likelihood of developing an intolerance to a particular protein.

I feed the following,

Roo

Goat

Beef

Fish

Chicken

Lamb

Occasionally Rabbit

Very rarely Crocodile

My view is that you really need to be able to rotate at least 3 proteins, and more variety is better. Unfortunately some dogs have developed intolerance that make such a rotation difficult or very expensive.

I think it is pretty hard to argue against fresh versus processed (same as with humans) but concede that there are some great kibbles around these days - Taste of the Wild, Canidae and Ivory Coat are probably the top three in my opinion that come to mind as I type :)

I should also state that I am not trying to convince people that my way is best, different dogs may be on different diets or many different reasons :) Most people on this forum are also at the very enthusiastic end of caring for their dogs health too so there is no judgement from me.

[Dave-o]

I think you have a very very lucky dog Yonjuro. It's a better diet than what I feed myself :D

[Tara8430]

Think my lab is hooked on whole rainbow trout now Yonjuro :) Great sunday treat she thinks.

[Yonjuro]

I think you have a very very lucky dog Yonjuro. It's a better diet than what I feed myself :D

Hahaha - yeah he eats better than me too :laugh:

Think my lab is hooked on whole rainbow trout now Yonjuro :) Great sunday treat she thinks.

Great stuff I always stock up when I can get them for $11kg works out $3.50 a meal :-) Which is not too bad - but he is fed 2 meals a day :-)

My average spend is around $8kg for human grade meats :-) He eats around 700g of raw per day - a little more quantity and fat when during sledding season and a little less in the real hot months. I could do it a little cheaper and still be very good if I needed to. But it has become a hobby that I am passionate about so I do get great enjoyment out of selecting and feeding him... and he is certainly not complaining :laugh:

Rabbit for dinner tonight - woohoo :laugh:

[Yonjuro]

[Yonjuro]

[Tara8430]

$11 a kilo wish I could find the ocean trout for that price, best I have seen is $14! I don't mind it's a treat thing, it's not every meal costing me that. I got Abbey nice decent size strips of salmon the other week, giving mostly frozen she likes those quite a bit too. Had to give the salmon heads a break as they have been a bit too big.

[Yonjuro]

$11 a kilo wish I could find the ocean trout for that price, best I have seen is $14! I don't mind it's a treat thing, it's not every meal costing me that. I got Abbey nice decent size strips of salmon the other week, giving mostly frozen she likes those quite a bit too. Had to give the salmon heads a break as they have been a bit too big.

Yeah it is expensive so I feed in moderation. The trout I feed if Rainbow Trout, ocean trout is much more expensive. Salmon - yep that is a rare treat :)