Yonjuro Posted August 27, 2015 Share Posted August 27, 2015 My boy has been on prey model raw for around 16 months and was on kibble + raw from as soon as he could chew (started at our breeder). I modify it slightly with supplements. I am not a PMR zealot as not all he is fed is on the bone. Being a bit of a doggy health and nutrition nutcase I wanted to make sure that what I was feeding was good for my boy and not just feeding my own views on natural feeding or Dog forbid - ego. My vet is pro kibble but has always commented that Ronin was in perfect condition and to not change a thing with his diet, but I always had a lingering worry that I might not be doing the best possible for my boy. People always say the best food for your dog is the food they do best on. I suppose this is true to an extent, but unless we know what is going on inside we really are only guessing that the food is good or we put all of our trust into the food we buy. External checks are good but long term is where diet will really reveal any health issues. So anyway, the results came back and I went through them with my vet. Calcium : Phosphorus is what I really was interested in as I think this is the trickiest with raw feeding in my opinion and I believe that many people feed way too much bone. Our vet was very impressed, everything came back perfect, and something he rarely sees according to him, again I will say he normally is a pro kibble vet, but never said to me at any stage I shouldn't feed raw. I do press my vet to be harsh with me for anything related to health and condition as I am not needing him to be gentle with me :D I do feel from reading many posts and talking to lots of people that many feed too much bone regardless of whether they are on kibble or raw. So while this may come across as a self congratulatory post, my point is that I think it is very valuable to do blood panels regularly and not just when you dog is ill. Don't overdo bone as calcium can bind zinc and lead to a myriad of problems. For what its worth I feed 10 - 12% edible over the course of a week, most days I balance everything (over the two meals) as I have a routine that is very easy for me now :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tara8430 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 That's very interesting Yonjuro, I think I will get a blood panel done on Abbey when she gets her shots in early December. I had been thinking about it but I think I definitely will now. Abbey is still having a few skin issues even on full raw so I have been wondering if she is out somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yonjuro Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 I am not sure about the skin issues side, but at least the reading will give you a good idea of organ function and various minerals etc. The more info you have I suppose is going to at least help in taking various worries or concerns out of the equation. I think there are specific tests like nutriscan for such issues, but I am not experienced with this side of things. I hope you get some answers and can put a plan in place to help Abbey :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yonjuro Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 I know that ZRD - Zinc Responsive Dermatosis can happen in some huskies fed too much bone. The calcium binds the zinc and the skin conditions appear and can get very very bad with open sores etc. I imagine that excessive bones, will reduce zinc in any dog and will effect the skin condition albeit at a less dramatic level than ZRD. The good news is that is can be treated with calcium reduction and zinc supplements, but those are things that a vet will need to advise you on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Thanks for the thread Y - and yep I agree entirely. I've been doing yearly blood panels on my lot for some years cos I believe in nipping things in the bud. July is my month - my birthday and Sarahs birthday so the boys get theirs done as well at the same time. Well the good news here too is there's nothing to nip in the bud here either. In fact last year the vet rang the pathology people to double check he had the right results as he'd never (?) seen a 15 year old (as Mac was then) with such good results. The vet couldn't believe that in such an old dog there wasn't a sniff of kidney disease - or anything else for that matter. I'm a predominantly raw feeder too - and mine get very wet meals to make sure they drink enough to be well hydrated. And I'm convinced its helped keep their kidneys in good health. They are all unrelated westies who all get fed the same way and they are all very healthy oldies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yonjuro Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 That's excellent Westiemum!!! Funny you should mention wet food as I add around 3/4 cup of water to his food bowl, with the supplements mixed in to keep hydration up. He laps up the soupy stuff before tucking into the meat LOL Some may think we are nutcases, but it is a label I am happy to wear :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) Well we're in fine company Y! Mine get about half a cup of water in their meals morning and night too - I call it their westie soup! Interestingly a vet at the Emergency Vet one night was very pleased to hear my lot got wet meals - he believes in it too and thinks that many dogs these days don't get enough moisture from their food. I think he was suspicious there was a connection with increasing rates of kidney disease. I suspect us 'nutters' are going to be looked on as forerunners eventually!! Edited August 28, 2015 by westiemum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yonjuro Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 Well we're in fine company Y! Mine get about half a cup of water in their meals morning and night too - I call it their westie soup! Interestingly a vet at the Emergency Vet one night was very pleased to hear my lot got wet meals - he believes in it too and thinks that many dogs these days don't get enough moisture from their food. I suspect us nutters are going to be looked on as forerunners eventually!! Tis funny the things we do, I often part defrost the meat in the 'soup' as there are lots of goodies in the juice that leaks out :D Regarding the adding water, I was put on to it by an experienced musher and as per usual I put my own twist on it :D I think it is especially important in winter as dogs tend to drink far less. The other thing the mushers do it warm up the water on really cold days and will often 'bait' it with chunks of sardines or similar :) I love learning more about this fascinating subject, now if I only looked after myself in the same manner... I have my eye on a tun of Connoisseur Cookies and ice cream and I reckon I will nail half of it :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) Guess who else warms the water in winter!!! But I never thought to 'bait' it - what a good idea!! I'm gonna try that - my guys just love the wet meals and the sardines is such a good idea - I've just gotta finish my Haighs chocolate Friday night treat first!!!! Edited August 28, 2015 by westiemum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yonjuro Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 Guess who else warms the water in winter!!! But I never thought to 'bait' it - what a good idea!! I'm gonna try that - my guys just love the wet meals and the sardines is such a good idea - I've just gotta finish my Haighs chocolate Friday night treat first!!!! Sharing is caring :) Let me know how you go with the baiting :) A little coconut oil in warm meal water is good too. Probably not a good idea out of meal time as it might result in the squirts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 Yep I'll probably deprive Sarah of the coconut oil - she has a dicky tummy and gets the squirts really easily - but the boys could have a little in their 'soup'. I tell you they eat better than I do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yonjuro Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 Yep I'll probably deprive Sarah of the coconut oil - she has a dicky tummy and gets the squirts really easily - but the boys could have a little in their 'soup'. I tell you they eat better than I do! The honey is great for a dicky tummy but you know that already :-) Supposedly the coconut oil is also very good for digestion and the tum tum, But squirts are not pleasant. You could always try a bit with Sarah if she is have a boney meal?? BTW Sarah was the name of our Maltese Terrier when I was a wee lad :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mim Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Just want to thank westiemum and yonjuro. Since reading this thread I've been adding water to my dogs' bowls when I feed them and they gobble it up! I have been giving them a bowl of very diluted lactose free milk every day since Muddy had a urinary issue earlier in the year and this is such an easy way to increase fluid intake further. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yonjuro Posted September 10, 2015 Author Share Posted September 10, 2015 Just want to thank westiemum and yonjuro. Since reading this thread I've been adding water to my dogs' bowls when I feed them and they gobble it up! I have been giving them a bowl of very diluted lactose free milk every day since Muddy had a urinary issue earlier in the year and this is such an easy way to increase fluid intake further. Thanks! That is brilliant, I am so pleased for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 Just want to thank westiemum and yonjuro. Since reading this thread I've been adding water to my dogs' bowls when I feed them and they gobble it up! I have been giving them a bowl of very diluted lactose free milk every day since Muddy had a urinary issue earlier in the year and this is such an easy way to increase fluid intake further. Thanks! You might want to look at using distilled water if your dog is having urinary issues. Some minerals in tap water can cause issues with stone formation etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yonjuro Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 I wouldn't use distilled water without specific vet advice. It can strip minerals from the body. It is not considered safe for humans unless under specific circumstances. If using RO/DI water you normally need to add certain minerals to it to make it safe and palatable. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 I wouldn't use distilled water without specific vet advice. It can strip minerals from the body. It is not considered safe for humans unless under specific circumstances. If using RO/DI water you normally need to add certain minerals to it to make it safe and palatable. :) Umm the idea is to reduce minerals for dogs that are having urinary problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yonjuro Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 I am pretty sure that the idea is to reduce SOME minerals RO/DI or DI strip it all out and actually leach minerals from the body. This is definitely one for a vet to advise on, not the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 We are talking about water added to food. Not ALL water. You seem quite happy to give out all sorts of diet advice and are giving me grief about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yonjuro Posted September 11, 2015 Author Share Posted September 11, 2015 We are talking about water added to food. Not ALL water. You seem quite happy to give out all sorts of diet advice and are giving me grief about it? Nope, thats not true. I said that one should be careful about DI water and I believe it is one that needs vet advice. There are uses for it for sure, but many don't know that there are safety risks as well. That is my only point. It has nothing against you. My previous dog of 14 years had urinary problems and crystal and stone formation for a long time. Our vet didn't advise DI water, he advised to cut out bones (she was on a mainly kibble diet). I am talking about stones than needed to be expressed under aesthetic every couple of years from 6 years on. Adding water to the meal and taking out recreational bones saw the complete reversal of her conditions. I am not suggesting that this vet knew it all or was a specialist but he did extra research into it for us as it was such a protracted and reoccurring condition. You can take it personally if you must, but I did a lot of research on RO/DI water, as at one stage I was seriously considering getting an expensive unit installed. For what its worth I just use a Brita filter jug for most water for the whole family. But that is really just a taste and chlorine thing. In any case, I am happy to be proven wrong and if so will add the information to my knowledge base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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