huski Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 And this is where we're going to have to just agree to disagree because punitive methods for discouraging chasing or teaching recall off prey (and let's be frank about it, there is nothing positive about applying static shocks to a dog's neck in training) are never going to be reliable on soft tempered but highly prey driven breeds. At best, the dog will learn to do it out of your sight, at worst, you will cause the dog significant pain and fear without achieving a thing. Have you ever used an e-collar Maddy? How many dogs have you seen trained with one, or trained yourself? I have seen numerous "soft tempered but highly prey driven" dogs trained to recall successfully, some with e-collars, some with other methods. To say something will "never" work is a big call, especially if you are referring to a form of training you aren't experienced with or familiar in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 And this is where we're going to have to just agree to disagree because punitive methods for discouraging chasing or teaching recall off prey (and let's be frank about it, there is nothing positive about applying static shocks to a dog's neck in training) are never going to be reliable on soft tempered but highly prey driven breeds. At best, the dog will learn to do it out of your sight, at worst, you will cause the dog significant pain and fear without achieving a thing. Have you ever used an e-collar Maddy? How many dogs have you seen trained with one, or trained yourself? I have seen numerous "soft tempered but highly prey driven" dogs trained to recall successfully, some with e-collars, some with other methods. To say something will "never" work is a big call, especially if you are referring to a form of training you aren't experienced with or familiar in. You're making assumptions about my levels of experience in trying to deal with that particular issue, in a breed I've worked with for almost 10 years. And you know what they say about making assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 And this is where we're going to have to just agree to disagree because punitive methods for discouraging chasing or teaching recall off prey (and let's be frank about it, there is nothing positive about applying static shocks to a dog's neck in training) are never going to be reliable on soft tempered but highly prey driven breeds. At best, the dog will learn to do it out of your sight, at worst, you will cause the dog significant pain and fear without achieving a thing. Have you ever used an e-collar Maddy? How many dogs have you seen trained with one, or trained yourself? I have seen numerous "soft tempered but highly prey driven" dogs trained to recall successfully, some with e-collars, some with other methods. To say something will "never" work is a big call, especially if you are referring to a form of training you aren't experienced with or familiar in. You're making assumptions about my levels of experience in trying to deal with that particular issue, in a breed I've worked with for almost 10 years. And you know what they say about making assumptions. No assumption, hence why I asked what your experience with the tool is, to be able to make such a blanket statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Interesting article on Sighthound psychology http://www.davidhancockondogs.com/archives/archive_729_789/777.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stressmagnet Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 We have a horrible rabbit problem on my street. If Ernie is let out, he gives chase. I can call him off about 95% of the time with my emergency recall but that involves never leaving home without a hunk of 'lamb crumble' in my pocket. He's less reliable about 'leave it' as he's a lab so his main aim is to gobble as fast as he can before I can grab him. We are working on this tho. Given he IS a Labrador and I'm pretty sure he has NO prey drive, I cannot imagine how hard it is for those of you with sight hounds and other prey driven dogs. I wish you luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 We have a horrible rabbit problem on my street. If Ernie is let out, he gives chase. I can call him off about 95% of the time with my emergency recall but that involves never leaving home without a hunk of 'lamb crumble' in my pocket. He's less reliable about 'leave it' as he's a lab so his main aim is to gobble as fast as he can before I can grab him. We are working on this tho. Given he IS a Labrador and I'm pretty sure he has NO prey drive, I cannot imagine how hard it is for those of you with sight hounds and other prey driven dogs. I wish you luck. If Ernie retrieves he has prey drive - we've modified it in gundogs (and herding dogs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stressmagnet Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 We have a horrible rabbit problem on my street. If Ernie is let out, he gives chase. I can call him off about 95% of the time with my emergency recall but that involves never leaving home without a hunk of 'lamb crumble' in my pocket. He's less reliable about 'leave it' as he's a lab so his main aim is to gobble as fast as he can before I can grab him. We are working on this tho. Given he IS a Labrador and I'm pretty sure he has NO prey drive, I cannot imagine how hard it is for those of you with sight hounds and other prey driven dogs. I wish you luck. If Ernie retrieves he has prey drive - we've modified it in gundogs (and herding dogs) Well duh. I am stupid. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillybob Posted October 31, 2015 Share Posted October 31, 2015 I have had Cedro for two years since he was a pup, I also have his mother Anna. They are Bassett Fauves and are bred to hunt and chase but also be a family dog. Anna is soft and gentle and has really not a huge amount of prey drive Cedro is a crazy dog when it comes to a scent. He cant be off the lead in the bottom of my yard because he will sail over my 6foot fences and is gone in seconds. Once his nose is down he will not answer to anything. I have to physically catch and hold him, usually when he is totally exhausted. People say about Fauves, when you call them they will stop look over their shoulders and then go! That's exactly what Cedro does. He is a lovely soft boy with a very hot nose. His mother will catch and kill small things in the yard and I have called them of a snake and they have come, but a roo or a cat and its on for Cedro. They were bred to follow their noses and they will. So I control were he goes and what he does, I don't take him out on the street because Im paranoid someone will know what he is and steal him, there are a lot of piggers up here who would love to add him to the mix. I have already have had one bloke who wanted to take him! The info I have read here is really helpful for me but I just cant imagine finding something he would want other than to chase. Ive tried everything and up till now haven't found anything that he will ever consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 My brother is tackling recall with a Fauve pup at the moment. ;) He is finding it very challenging, even with Leslie Nelson's Really Reliable Recall. The main issue is once she's 'busy', she does not care for anything he has to offer. My advice to him was to work on conditioning. With a conditioned recall, the goal is you are not pitting what you can access against what she can access without you. You are building up a response for her to turn on a dime and run to you before she really thinks about it. If you work on building this up where her response is reliable and obvious, you can build on that with more challenging conditions a little at a time. If you can find a reward that taps into the same things she finds so compelling, it's that little bit easier. IME, the reliability of the recall tends to come down to whether the dog hears it or not. Then again, one of my dogs clearly does hear it on occasion, and opts to do his own thing instead of coming. With lots of practice, this has become uncommon. I can't recall him off rabbits, but I can recall him out of a rabbit warren once he's had his first run. I was doing a lot of work on getting him to attend to me around rabbits to work on this, only then the rabbit warren died, so I've got nowhere to practice anymore. I can recall him off roos and birds. He is not wildly prey driven, but chasing rabbits is literally the only thing he throws his whole self into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillybob Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Hi Corvus another Fauve lover yaaaah. Where did he get his pup from he may be related to Cedro. For about eighteen months Cedro was ok he followed scents but wasn't so determined to get after them but around two years of age his nose seemed to come in really strongly and it now is all or nothing. Just to watch him follow a scent is amazing, every morning he covers the whole yard inch by inch looking to see who went over it. Its just great to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 She is a Trisven girl. :) She is really a great dog. Full of enthusiasm and not much phases her. Plus, she is so stinking cute I nearly die every time I visit. Scenthounds aren't really entirely my thing, but I sure can see why you would have a Fauve, and I'll happily take credit for being the one to tell bro he should get one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillybob Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 So is Cedro so they may be cousins. The are the cutest pups and can be a little bit norty but I had Anna Cedro's mum to keep him in line. He is so gentle and soft, loves people. Trish told me hers like to be out there at shows so they can meet people and get pats. Cedro is just like that he loves people. She picked the right dog for me I believe she gives great thought into what pup go's where, to match people and dog. I am so glad I waited for him and no doubt sooner or later I will get another, three Fauves IS a crowd! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canisbellum Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 A rabbit ran past us this morning just after I left the house. This is the aftermath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillybob Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Dog my two would have been on its tail with me attatched. Lately there has been a Wallaby in the paddock at the back of my place, luckily they haven't seen it but they have smelt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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