Dogs Are Forever Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 And trying to correct her with a rolled up newspaper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Yeah - newspaper - makes a great chew toy... if you don't mind shredded paper everywhere. Does not make a great correction tool - but you'd be amazed how many people told me to do that. The funniest version was - if she digs in the garden (as opposed to the wasteland at the back of my yard), to go beat up that bit of garden that you don't want her digging in it and scold the garden thoroughly... Another fail there. I scold - she helps scold (barking and snapping). I garden - she helps garden (digging and stomping and chewing)... She likes to help with the washing too. Managed to persuade her that there was no fun in swinging off stuff but she does like to fetch dirty laundry in case I missed it (eg separate the colours, get fetched a black sock to put in the white load). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllieDog Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 Thank you for those who have been helpful. I would just like to reassure those who have incorrectly assumed our puppy is being mistreated that this couldn't be any further from the truth. In fact, I actually think we have mistakenly gone too far the other way and made her think the biting was acceptable. I have absolutely no qualms with a puppy mouthing or testing the boundries. But it is a problem that she will lunge and growl and snap at my face, that I have lost part of my ear lobe, and my hands are covered in painful bites that bleed. I have children that are hesitant to play with her because they are scared. I do believe she needs to know that this behaviour is unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 The sooner you get a professional's assistance the better for you all ... best of luck . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 But it is a problem that she will lunge and growl and snap at my face, that I have lost part of my ear lobe, and my hands are covered in painful bites that bleed. Completely agree with what you say here. But what you said you've been doing to sort it - isn't working - is that right? You need to do something different. I suggest rigger gloves for the needle teeth - but still be really boring (and push) when she bites. Things that failed for me in teaching not to bite: yelping ignoring scolding nose taps Things that worked (not necessarily in this order) gentle and slow push of hand towards back of mouth until dog spits, hold a second and let dog spit me out. Act boring for at least 30 seconds after this. you might also need leather rigging gloves initially so you still have some hand left. collar grabs: you train the puppy to enjoy having collar grabbed by pairing with treats eg one session - count five treats, say puppy's name, grab collar, give treat. let go - wait for attention to drift then repeat. Until the treats are all gone). Might need a few sessions for the dog to look forward to collar being grabbed. then if puppy bites, grab collar, gently separate dog from bited thing (eg your other hand), hold dog, count to three being boring (not moving or talking and no direct eye contact), let go and see what choice the puppy makes. Repeat as needed. If puppy latches on after the third time, then put puppy outside to give yourself a rest. crate time. - also need to train dog to love being in crate. but essentially if there are repeated fails (ie repeated bites), put dog in crate. distract and substitute - this is only appropriate with a young puppy - as they progress towards teens - you can expect them to be a bit more aware of what they're doing. Same thing you do with a toddler that grabs something inappropriate. geddit and give tug/toy game. Teaching a puppy when it's ok to grab something with its mouth and when to spit it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Thank you for those who have been helpful. I would just like to reassure those who have incorrectly assumed our puppy is being mistreated that this couldn't be any further from the truth. In fact, I actually think we have mistakenly gone too far the other way and made her think the biting was acceptable. I have absolutely no qualms with a puppy mouthing or testing the boundries. But it is a problem that she will lunge and growl and snap at my face, that I have lost part of my ear lobe, and my hands are covered in painful bites that bleed. I have children that are hesitant to play with her because they are scared. I do believe she needs to know that this behaviour is unacceptable. Maybe this puppy isn't the right fit for you,what has the breeder suggested I think all the advice has been helpful just not what you want to hear hopefully it is sorted for the pups future and your own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Thank you for those who have been helpful. I would just like to reassure those who have incorrectly assumed our puppy is being mistreated that this couldn't be any further from the truth. In fact, I actually think we have mistakenly gone too far the other way and made her think the biting was acceptable. I have absolutely no qualms with a puppy mouthing or testing the boundries. But it is a problem that she will lunge and growl and snap at my face, that I have lost part of my ear lobe, and my hands are covered in painful bites that bleed. I have children that are hesitant to play with her because they are scared. I do believe she needs to know that this behaviour is unacceptable. Ofcourse not, no one would want to put up with being hurt like that. So two important things for you to do today: 1. Call your trainer and book a session for as soon as possible. Please avoid trainers that talk about dominance. That's like going to see a Shaman instead of booking in with your GP. 2. Sterilise a jar (or pick up one for the chemist) and see if you can collect a urine sample. Because when you take her to the vet, that is undoubtedly what they'll ask for anyway. So if you take one with you it is all there ready to be analysed. :) good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stressmagnet Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Yes to all the great suggestions, especially to seeing a kind professional. She's going to be a big dog, it's good to get on top of it now. One thing - have you tried spraying your hands with that Bitter Apple stuff? When Ernie went through the puppy bitey stage, we all sprayed our hands and then deftly switched out our yucky hands with a soft toy that he COULD bite. It's all in the timing tho, you need to be quick. We paired it with 'UH-UH' and he got the message. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Lemon juice on hands would probably work too, most dogs don't like the taste of citrus either. I accidentally trained a Staffy not to lick my toes - because they were slathered in Rid insect repellent - which doubled nicely as dog repellent. But that stuff is a bit toxic - you wouldn't want to do that on purpose. For catching a urine sample - I found one of those chinese take away containers works well - I could just shove in and under from behind. Someone else used a soup ladle with success - but even with a dishwasher - I'm not sure I could bring myself to use that ladle again. The chinese plastic container - I can throw away, recycle via the council bin or use for spider catching (after wash and dry). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) I recently picked up a toy poodle from owners who didn't want it. Had the dog for 3 years after buying it online, told me it had bitten. They only paid for the dog to be groomed once a year and the dog NEVER went to the vets. It toileted every time they let it in the house so he lived outside under a bush mostly, never walked ... The owner told me she had poodles growing up and this dog was not like the dogs she'd had before. I picked up the dog easily, no biting. He was taken to my vet for all his vet work, he was housetrained within 2 days and has gone to a loving home. The new owners have taken him to dog training, had him groomed again and have him living inside with them as part of the family, I'm not expecting they'll have any issues at all - none so far in the weeks since adoption, not one and yet the former owners believed he was the devil incarnate. There was nothing wrong whatsoever with this dog. The problem was the owners had no idea how to train the dog or look after the dog, nor were they interested in even reading what to do on the internet. He didn't even have the basic vaccinations. Now I'm not suggesting that you are in this league, you are on here asking for help but I was honestly quite shocked when I read your post about what you are doing with the puppy to "train". Edited August 19, 2015 by Her Majesty Dogmad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Yesterday at work I was asked to help a colleague whose family is taking on a puppy - she said "I've been told to rub the puppy's nose in it's business to housetrain, I thought you'd know if this was the right way to do it?". Talk about steam coming out my ears.... I asked if she'd ever done that to any of her children when they were toddlers and she was horrified at the thought. Puppies are like young children and they don't have control over their ablutions at a young age. There's some great articles on the internet, here's a link to one: http://kb.rspca.org.au/how-can-i-toilet-train-my-puppydog_296.html I housetrain older dogs all the time, using positive rewards. If I can housetrain a 14 yr old that's never lived inside before and old dogs that have lived in breeders' kennels, I'm sure it might even be easier with a puppy but it takes time and patience. You have described some other issues - have a look on the internet but I'd recommend that you get a behaviouralist in now as it sounds like a very confusing situation for all. Your breeder should definitely be helping you, are they aware of how unhappy you are with the puppy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I honestly think this is being blown way out of proportion. As someone who speaks with puppy owners almost every day of the week, this kind of situation, misunderstanding/ misinterpretation of the pup's behaviour etc is EXTREMELY COMMON. It does NOT mean there is anything terribly wrong with the puppy or the owners- BOTH parties simply need some assistance to get on the right page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EllieDog Posted August 19, 2015 Author Share Posted August 19, 2015 are they aware of how unhappy you are with the puppy? I don't understand? Where have I said I am unhappy with the puppy? So I put a puppy outside for misbehaving, see it's not working, ask for advice on a forum for dogs, and somehow I've been painted as an abusive animal owner who shouldn't own a dog? Really? My last dog I owned for 16 years until he passed away 8 years ago. I still have a photo of him on my dresser. The puppy we have now was much planned for and is a very much loved member of our family. I would go as far to say that we may have inadvertently caused some of the issues by our lack of boundary setting with the puppy. Just because I say we've now taken a no-tolerance stance to the biting doesn't mean I'm beating her with a stick and yelling at her. This little girl has not even heard us raise our voice let alone been yelled at, or worse, hit. Just because I don't have the level of dog behaviour experience as many on this forum do, doesn't give people the right to automatically assume I'm some kind of monster. That's really offensive, and very off-putting to others that may be thinking of asking for help. Again, thank you for those who have been supportive and helpful. I have made investigations today into some additional help and appreciate those that have given constructive ideas and help. And yes, I have been speaking to the breeder. This little girl has been a bit cheeky and boisterous from day one. She'll definitely benefit (and thrive) from additional training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 I'm sure with a bit of assistance (which most people need by the way) you and your pup will be just fine. Some pups are a little trickier than others and working out what makes them tick and what works best for them is part of the process. Just make sure you get a good quality trainer to help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 (edited) are they aware of how unhappy you are with the puppy? I don't understand? Where have I said I am unhappy with the puppy? So I put a puppy outside for misbehaving, see it's not working, ask for advice on a forum for dogs, and somehow I've been painted as an abusive animal owner who shouldn't own a dog? Really? My last dog I owned for 16 years until he passed away 8 years ago. I still have a photo of him on my dresser. The puppy we have now was much planned for and is a very much loved member of our family. I would go as far to say that we may have inadvertently caused some of the issues by our lack of boundary setting with the puppy. Just because I say we've now taken a no-tolerance stance to the biting doesn't mean I'm beating her with a stick and yelling at her. This little girl has not even heard us raise our voice let alone been yelled at, or worse, hit. Just because I don't have the level of dog behaviour experience as many on this forum do, doesn't give people the right to automatically assume I'm some kind of monster. That's really offensive, and very off-putting to others that may be thinking of asking for help. Again, thank you for those who have been supportive and helpful. I have made investigations today into some additional help and appreciate those that have given constructive ideas and help. And yes, I have been speaking to the breeder. This little girl has been a bit cheeky and boisterous from day one. She'll definitely benefit (and thrive) from additional training. If you'd like to re-read my posts, I have been quite clear in suggesting that you need some help. Obviously reading posts here is not going to work for you all that well in improving your situation. If you were happy and everything was working well for you, you wouldn't have come and asked for help nor would you be having to do what you've been doing - rightly or wrongly. I stand by what I said and I never said you were a monster, that's your own interpretation. I hope you find the answers very soon. Edited August 19, 2015 by Her Majesty Dogmad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal House Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Some puppies can really test you, and some are just very easy going/trainable, a bit like babies I guess, they are all very different and it will take a little while to get to know each other and figure out what works for you both. It's great you are getting some professional help, it really does make all the difference. I'd had dogs for 20 years and just assumed I knew what I was doing, but 45 minutes with a really good trainer and I was set straight and never looked back. I'm sure I could do with more lessons. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted August 19, 2015 Share Posted August 19, 2015 Even the impressively experienced dog owner can have some hiccups with raising a pup... check this thread... http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/263169-raising-two-puppies-at-once/ I don't think that people are accusing you of being a bad or abusive puppy owner - maybe their wording could have been a bit better presented, yes? The general rule of advice threads like this is to take from all posts only that which is useful to you, and to ignore anything that may be perceived as personally negative. Seeking help from the breeder and from training experts is a good start... and a couple of those have made sensible replies here. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 I honestly think this is being blown way out of proportion. As someone who speaks with puppy owners almost every day of the week, this kind of situation, misunderstanding/ misinterpretation of the pup's behaviour etc is EXTREMELY COMMON. It does NOT mean there is anything terribly wrong with the puppy or the owners- BOTH parties simply need some assistance to get on the right page. I'm sure with a bit of assistance (which most people need by the way) you and your pup will be just fine. Some pups are a little trickier than others and working out what makes them tick and what works best for them is part of the process. Just make sure you get a good quality trainer to help you. Yes and yes :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Even the impressively experienced dog owner can have some hiccups with raising a pup... check this thread... http://www.dolforums...uppies-at-once/ I don't think that people are accusing you of being a bad or abusive puppy owner - maybe their wording could have been a bit better presented, yes? The general rule of advice threads like this is to take from all posts only that which is useful to you, and to ignore anything that may be perceived as personally negative. Seeking help from the breeder and from training experts is a good start... and a couple of those have made sensible replies here. T. Notes that T just called me impressively experienced ... elliedog, I agree that you take what you need from threads like this and I second those who suggest you get an experienced behaviourist/trainer in as well as just double checking the pup's health. I'm raising two and at times it does my head in (especially when I went to bed the other night to find one overly excited youngster had done a wee on my doona ...). I have a bitey boy who forgets all his training the moment he has a new smell to check out. He and his sister are currently sound asleep and I'm just letting them despite it being 7.30 and none of us having dinner yet. I haven't even walked or groomed them tonight. Such a bad owner ... Take a step back and a deep breath. Forget everything you've done already with this puppy and just start from scratch. For a while there I never took off my treat pouch. Every time something was done right, a big, 'Yes!' and treat. Get your family to do the same. There are some great resources online about crate training and mouthing and toilet training. Why don't you make a list of the the most important things, post it here and we can put together some resources for you to check out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Even the impressively experienced dog owner can have some hiccups with raising a pup... check this thread... http://www.dolforums...uppies-at-once/ I don't think that people are accusing you of being a bad or abusive puppy owner - maybe their wording could have been a bit better presented, yes? The general rule of advice threads like this is to take from all posts only that which is useful to you, and to ignore anything that may be perceived as personally negative. Seeking help from the breeder and from training experts is a good start... and a couple of those have made sensible replies here. T. Notes that T just called me impressively experienced ... elliedog, I agree that you take what you need from threads like this and I second those who suggest you get an experienced behaviourist/trainer in as well as just double checking the pup's health. I'm raising two and at times it does my head in (especially when I went to bed the other night to find one overly excited youngster had done a wee on my doona ...). I have a bitey boy who forgets all his training the moment he has a new smell to check out. He and his sister are currently sound asleep and I'm just letting them despite it being 7.30 and none of us having dinner yet. I haven't even walked or groomed them tonight. Such a bad owner ... Take a step back and a deep breath. Forget everything you've done already with this puppy and just start from scratch. For a while there I never took off my treat pouch. Every time something was done right, a big, 'Yes!' and treat. Get your family to do the same. There are some great resources online about crate training and mouthing and toilet training. Why don't you make a list of the the most important things, post it here and we can put together some resources for you to check out? Yes couldn't agree more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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