Puppy Vaccinations

[WildatHeart]

I shopped around recently to try find a vet practice that did the cheapest needles. With that came conflicting advice on what needles were actually required for an 8 week old pup.

All said 6-8 weeks they would give the c3.

Then some said a c5 at 12-14 and again at 18-20 weeks.

However, two practices said just a c5 was required at 12-14 weeks.

Can someone that knows please shed some light on this. Don't want to do two if its not required.

[Dame Aussie]

Mine have all been done at 6-8 wks, 12 wks and 16 wks but I think some people just get the first two and don't bother with the 16 wks. I only ever get C3 as I haven't found the kennel cough component to be needed.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Dame Aussie

[aliwake]

I actually think there is a different protocol offered by one particular brand of vaccination. maybe novartis?

[Dame Aussie]

Yeah there's a brand that only needs two shots rather than three I think.

[WreckitWhippet]

I give a c3 at eight weeks plus, then one a month after that and another 12 months after the second.

[Rappie]

I suspect this reflects the vaccines the practices use.

The two vaccine option with a C5 at 12-14 weeks is likely using an intranasal kennel cough vaccination and probably also a C3 registered for an early finish.

The three vaccine option is likely using injectable kennel cough vaccination which requires two doses.

Neither protocol is right or wrong - the early finish does mean more opportunities to get out and about, but the WSAVA guidelines still support a later finish regardless of the type of vaccine used.

[Dame Aussie]

Is a 12 month booster still the recommendation rappie?

[Rappie]

Yes the first 'adult' vaccination given 12 months after the final puppy vaccination is still strongly recommended even for a triennial protocol.

[denali]

Im glad someone asked this, as my sister asked me the other day and i had no clue.

The practice i work in still gives 3 vaccines but i knew there were 2 vaccine options out there.

Will pass it on :)

[WildatHeart]

Thank you Rappie

[DeltaCharlie]

Put simply, without a blood test there is no way of knowing exactly when maternal antibodies will leave a puppy's system. It can be as early as 6 weeks or as late as 16 weeks (with further exceptions of course). For most puppies, it seems to happen between 9-11 weeks of age.

The idea behind the puppy vaccination protocol is to try and catch the puppy shortly after Mum's immunity has worn off. Any vaccination given before that time is rendered useless by the existing maternal antibodies (they destroy it like they would the actual pathogen), but any given after have left the puppy exposed for however long that gap in time was. The idea is to give them every 4 or so weeks to try and minimise the time the puppy is left unprotected. A 6 week vaccination for most puppies is useless as it is pretty uncommon for maternal antibodies to wear off that young. However, ANKC breeder regs require that vaccinations are given 2 weeks prior to rehoming, which for most puppies is 8 weeks of age. The 9-12 week vaccination is the most likely to be the one that takes effect, as that is the right time frame for most puppies to lose their maternal protection. Some people choose to stop at that one. The 16 week vaccination is designed to catch any puppies that may have had maternal antibodies present until a later age, as they would have rendered the second shot useless too. While not common for them to still have maternal protection at 16 weeks, it is not unheard of and many choose to play it safe and give the additional shot in case.

The 12 month shot is not required, however it is adviseable that a titre test is done to confirm immunity. In theory, once a dog has immunity it has it for life so a 12 month shot is rarely needed. Some dogs don't seroconvert effectively though so its best to check (also good, I guess, in case they still had maternal antibodies present at their last puppy shot and it therefore didn't take).

There is also a product on the market by Nobivac known as the 10 week finish (not sure of its actual name). Essentially, the idea behind it is that it is strong enough to knock out any maternal antibodies that are still present so that they cannot interfere with the vaccination. There are strong arguments both ways for it, but its not something I am particularly keen on. Anything that is strong enough to knock out the maternal antibodies is going to be pretty potent to put into a small, developing system. The recommendation is to titre 2 weeks after it is given to be certain that it worked. We had a puppy from our last litter given this vaccine, a titre test a few weeks later showed that she had zero immunity and had to be given the normal protech c3 after all. It knocked out the maternal antibodies (if they were still present) but didn't take itself. Without the titre, the owner would never have known and would have taken her out and about assuming she was protected when in fact she had no protection.

Puppies that we buy from elsewhere are given their shots at 6 weeks as required. They then get a C5 at about 11 weeks and then a C3 at 16 weeks. Puppies that we breed ourselves do not get their first shot until 9 weeks (C3) and then a C5 at about 13 weeks. They don't get a 3rd shot. They are then titre tested at 12-14 months and every 3 years after that. None of our dogs have ever required a vaccination after their initial puppy rounds.

We don't give KC vaccines to any of our older dogs as we don't deem them worth it. Our dogs don't meet and greet with other dogs, never share water bowls and are at a pretty low risk of contracting KC. It only covers a few strands of the virus anyway and we figure our dogs are healthy enough to recover if they happen to get sick. Chances are they would pick up a strain not covered anyway :) The only reason we give a C5 to our puppies is that we figure they are so tiny that it would knock them around a lot more if they happened to get sick. They also tend to meet more strange dogs than the adults do.

[tdierikx]

Love the explanation DeltaCharlie... spot on!

T.

[Dame Aussie]

Yes, same reasons we don't give the KC component :)

[*kirty*]

Fantastic explanation DeltaCharlie! :)

[oakway]

Delta Charlie :thumbsup:

[Rebanne]

I give a c3 at eight weeks plus, then one a month after that and another 12 months after the second.

same

[sandgrubber]

In theory, once a dog has immunity it has it for life so a 12 month shot is rarely needed. Some dogs don't seroconvert effectively though so its best to check (also good, I guess, in case they still had maternal antibodies present at their last puppy shot and it therefore didn't take).

This theory has not been tested! The companies that make vaccines have no motivation to test it, and no one else can come up with the money.

The duration of immunity IS being tested, ATM, for rabies vaccination. http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/latest/summary-of-the-rabies-challenge-fund-duration-of-immunity-study

This study is small budget and funded by private donations. It is necessarily slow because dogs need to be tested for many years, and more than one vaccine needs to be tested.

Results to date:

Our conclusion from studies with the initial rabies vaccine is that the immunity conferred by that product, and assessed by the in vitro RFFIT, was excellent for the first three years, but declined during the fourth year, and continued to drop during the fifth year. The second vaccine group, which is now three years from vaccination, will remain on study for at least two more years.

They are trying to do in vitro tests to see if the immune memory still provides immunity after the antibodies are no longer abundant. This is a horrid process . . . it means they have to subject a control group of unvaccinated dogs and a vaccinated (but no longer showing antibodies) group of dogs to actual rabies. The test fails if the control group do not become infected . . . or if the vaccinated dogs whose antibody level is low do get rabies. For obvious reasons, this has to be done in highly controlled labs. The first set of trials failed because very few of the control group got infected, so they're back to the drawing board.

Parvo and distemper are different from rabies in that some dogs do survive, and survivors appear to be immune. So there is a good chance that a vaccine can confer lifetime immunity. However, this has not been systematically tested. I still err on the side of caution and do parvo and distemper vaccines at one, four, and seven and 10 years. I'm in the US, and the law says rabies must be done every three years.

Edited August 16, 2015 by sandgrubber

[DeltaCharlie]

That would be why it is advised to titre test them every 3 years to keep an eye on the levels and make sure they don't drop :)