Conscientious Puppy Breeder?

[The Spotted Devil]

Agree. I refunded a puppy buyer in full when they changed their mind after 24 hours of having the puppy!

[Suze]

I suppose I assumed a deposit would be non-refundable. But I have nothing in writing saying that. Does anyone know the legalities? Are they required to return the deposit for change of mind? I have received no terms.

[Tassie]

It's a shame that your first foray into the pure breed world hasn't started so well. But reading what you've said, I think your best course of action would be to go with one of the 'invested' breeders you've spoken to. This is a dog which hopefully is going to be part of your life for the next 14 or so years, and to my way of thinking, the supportive relationship with the breeder is an important part of the pure breed 'package'.

In your situation, I'd be inclined to cut your losses on the deposit, if you have to. But it's worth a try to see if you can get the deposit back.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I would be looking to meet the breeder and some of their dogs before deciding.

I would not depend solely on stuff they'd written on their website or their post here, or testimonials on their website or even what's on the breed club website (since the breeder info on those is usually written by that breeder).

I wouldn't buy a house without looking at it, and getting someone who is qualified in structural inspections to look at it.

EG I'd be asking other experts in the breed and owners who are not that breeder.

A face to face meeting with the breeder is so important. And it should be where the dogs live - eventually tho you can do initial meetings at social events or shows. Some people do ok with recommendations from people they know face to face, who have met the breeder face to face.

It would be nice if the DOL breeder listings were a bit more up to date ie some indication of whether the breeder was still active with the breed that is shown in the picture. And if they're the ones with the puppies - pictures of the bitches, not just the stud dog. And if they don't answer emails - don't have the email.

I've sent a few people to the DOL listings only to find the breeder isn't breeding that breed any more or doesn't respond to the email address they've put on the ad. If they're not breeding that breed of dog - they shouldn't be on the breeder list for it. It's just frustrating. Maybe we could have an archive page for "retired breeders"...

[BullBreedBoy]

Interesting. I would always advise people to listen to their gut. If it doesn't feel right it probably isn't. Personally I think your concern is well founded, particularly around the breeder taking no interest in you, or where the pup would be going.

I have my own system, which involves prospective puppy buyers coming to visit me, meeting the parents, and talking about the realities of puppy ownership. Then, if that goes well I arrange to visit them at home, so I can see for myself where the pup will be living and what the environment is like. I don't take deposits but I can understand why some do as have been stuffed around before.

I would politely ask for your deposit back and see what happens.

[Kirislin]

Have you actually been out to see them and their dogs? Perhaps it's worth a visit if they're not too far away. Maybe they gathered enough information from talking to you that they felt you'd be a good owner and didn't feel the need to discuss further. I dont know.

[juice]

I would ask for a refund too. If they say no just mention the hernia and say you wouldnt have put a deposit down on a pup with a fault ( not big i know , but it might make them budge).

[Rebanne]

But having spoken since to other breeders I have been told that it is always the breeder's responsibility supply a perfectly healthy pup - so the hernia should always be done by the breeder.

just this bit. I wouldn't subject a pup to an operation for a minor hernia. I'd do what this breeder did and discount the price a little and say get it fixed when desexed.

[aliwake]

Sounds a lot like the breeder of our boy. Despite doing all the right things on paper and having all health testing of parents completed etc, in hindsight I think the operation was primarily a business for her, and she wasn't at all interested in knowing anything about us.

I don't really regret our choice - he's a beautiful boy, but I would have preferred more support for sure. I would love to know your breed too!

[Purdie]

I would ask for a refund too. If they say no just mention the hernia and say you wouldnt have put a deposit down on a pup with a fault ( not big i know , but it might make them budge).

I don't see why they wouldn't give back your deposit;but better to ask now rather than later so they can find another home for the pup.

They may be knocking back other people thinking you are taking the pup.

[mita]

Have you actually been out to see them and their dogs? Perhaps it's worth a visit if they're not too far away. Maybe they gathered enough information from talking to you that they felt you'd be a good owner and didn't feel the need to discuss further. I dont know.

I think this is a very fair-minded option to consider. There might have been things you communicated to the breeder which gave a strong impression of a good pet owner. Maybe consider testing the situation? But your decision entirely. There's also your gut feelings to consider.

I had no experience of the breeders when I first made enquiries about adopting an adult tibbie. One of the first I phoned later told me exactly when she decided that her best little dog she was thinking of retiring, would come to us.

Seems I introduced myself saying we were looking for a small breed, inside dog (after mainly working breeds) because our little mixed breed dog we rescued thrown from a car as a puppy, had recently died aged 22 years. And how she became called 'Gran' & was a client of the UQ Vet Clinic where she was much loved. At that, she decided people who'd love & care for a little mixed breed rescue dog, would love her little Aus Champion dog.

What I thought were a few sentences to open the conversation .... were actually what she needed. And it was our mixed breed, 'Gran' who won the day. :)

[jemappelle]

Have you actually been out to see them and their dogs? Perhaps it's worth a visit if they're not too far away. Maybe they gathered enough information from talking to you that they felt you'd be a good owner and didn't feel the need to discuss further. I dont know.

I also think this is a valid point. When I was breeding cats I used to encourage the potential adopter to talk a lot as I found that if they were going to spill something I wasn't comfortable with it was then, not when I was asking set questions.

[mita]

Have you actually been out to see them and their dogs? Perhaps it's worth a visit if they're not too far away. Maybe they gathered enough information from talking to you that they felt you'd be a good owner and didn't feel the need to discuss further. I dont know.

I also think this is a valid point. When I was breeding cats I used to encourage the potential adopter to talk a lot as I found that if they were going to spill something I wasn't comfortable with it was then, not when I was asking set questions.

Couldn't agree more.

[LisaCC]

But having spoken since to other breeders I have been told that it is always the breeder's responsibility supply a perfectly healthy pup - so the hernia should always be done by the breeder.

just this bit. I wouldn't subject a pup to an operation for a minor hernia. I'd do what this breeder did and discount the price a little and say get it fixed when desexed.

Regarding the Hernia as well, if it's a mild umbilical hernia, it may very well completely correct itself and never need an operation.

My pup had one, it was still there at 8 weeks when he came home to me, vet had checked it out at the breeders to make sure there was no insides dropping into it (hence mild), my vet checked it out again within his first visit (within the first 2 days home) and every puppy vaccination, it completely corrected itself within a few weeks.

If you can visit the breeder in person before puppies are ready to go, that could be an opportunity to get to know them better (but don't get sucked in by the cute puppies if there are other warning signs there). Otherwise if you are not comfortable with the breeder I would ask for the deposit back or give it up and go elsewhere.

[Heidley]

While I support the idea of visiting, I think that the breeder who,d have invited them to visit.......it sounds like they haven't wanted to glean a lot of information from the OP which is her concern. Sorry it hasn't been the best experience for you starting out but I would ask for a refund just to see and regardless go elsewhere.

I always put lots of time into answering enquiries however for the most part I never hear back so it goes both ways. It doesn't help that most people want a puppy now regardless of getting to know you or anything about the parents, they want their cute baby now!

Commend the OP on doing more research even after putting down a deposit, hope it all works out for you

[Suze]

We have not been to visit. We have not been invited. I am yet to even receive an image of the parent dogs despite a request. (I would think proud breeders would have these saved to their phones/computers and could send them in an instant!?). We are to 'visit' and pick up the pup same day.

I don't believe they gleaned anything at all about us in the initial convo (to help make their decision) - I asked 'what is the process if we are interested in adopting one of your pups' (expecting a chat as other breeders had had long chats with me despite not being likely to have pups for a long while). The response was 'you just put $xxx deposit down and it's yours.'

In contrast, I have spent 40 - 60 minutes on the phone to other breeders chatting about them and our circumstances etc. (where it's been evident that they have been encouraging me to chat to find out more - as suggested in one of the above posts). So I am quite willing to do that (and had expected it).

On the bright side, we visited another breeder today (who invited and encouraged our visit) and had a really positive experience.

Thanks everyone for your feedback. From my own experience I think it's safe to say that even within the registered and reputable breeding industry there are many levels of commitment and support offered.

I may be overthinking this, but the key concern for me is that those that treat breeding solely as a 'business' (even if their dogs aren't mistreated) are logically more likely to cut corners in choice of mating partner? (i.e. cheaper stud dog to make a larger profit overall?); probably less likely to commit time and effort to socialising pups when young etc. etc?? (in other words will do the bare minimum, without doing anything 'wrong', which could then translate to health/temperament issues down the track).

[Suze]

(Unfortunately the idea of welcoming this new member to our family meant emotion did overtake logic for the time that we put this deposit down!)

[alpha bet]

You have doubts... and they do sound legit.... There is no problem asking for your deposit back... particularly as you have now found out there is a hernia... which was not originally known about.

The breeder is likely to just refund the deposit and sell the pup to someone else... you are then free to go to a breeder who you feel more comfortable with... after all this is a long term decision... and you want someone who is able to support you more long term.

Don't be afraid to ask just step up and take charge.

[Trisven13]

But having spoken since to other breeders I have been told that it is always the breeder's responsibility supply a perfectly healthy pup - so the hernia should always be done by the breeder.

just this bit. I wouldn't subject a pup to an operation for a minor hernia. I'd do what this breeder did and discount the price a little and say get it fixed when desexed.

Yep and have recently just done this. I also don't ask a lot of questions when I talk to people, though to be fair, with a rare breed they're not going to be ringing me without knowing much about them. Instead I ask them what they know of the breed and then tell them ALL the bad stuff. If they're still interested after that then we move to the good stuff. I also believe that I have a breed that is genuinely pretty easy for the average joe - they are unlikely to have issues with aggression, if you're happy with the poor recall you shouldn't have any major issues. Once someone is interested however I actively encourage them to join our FB page and the Aussie Fauve page and they become a part of the Fauve community - they get to see the good, the bad and the ugly at that point.

The simple truth of the matter is that if you're not happy you should go elsewhere HOWEVER I wouldn't necessarily consider the things you've described as an indicator of bad things.

[mr.mister]

You have doubts... and they do sound legit.... There is no problem asking for your deposit back... particularly as you have now found out there is a hernia... which was not originally known about.

The breeder is likely to just refund the deposit and sell the pup to someone else... you are then free to go to a breeder who you feel more comfortable with... after all this is a long term decision... and you want someone who is able to support you more long term.

Don't be afraid to ask just step up and take charge.

Yes, this! Nothing wrong with asking for your deposit back if you feel uncomfortable and going with a breeder you trust more.

Supportive breeders are worth their weight in gold. I bought my pedigreed cat from a lovely breeder and even now, nearly five years on, we're still in touch and he is more than happy to give advice, offer help and assistance, and of course enjoy the photos of her that I send him. I know that if something were to happen to me, he wouldn't hesitate to welcome her back. He invited me to meet his cats before there were even any litters on the ground and welcomed me back any time, just to say hi or to have tiny kitten cuddles!

I digress.. but the point is that if you don't feel 100% comfortable with these breeders, I would trust your gut despite the deposit and go with the breeders that you gel with.