To Desex Or Implant?

[jessg]

I have a 12 month old rottie who I am considering desexing. I am having conflicting advice from vets so really confused! We are having some behaviour problems and I have been taking him to a trainer which doesn’t seem to be helping. He is very ADD! I am also worried about health risks, cancer etc with both options. One vet said desex him is the best option as it will stop him looking for females and any aggression (which he hasn’t shown any). Will also stop testicular cancer and there is no health benefits with keeping his testes. The other vet is saying keep his testes and try the implant and a vasectomy. There is only one vet in WA that does this so wasn’t a bit concerned why more don’t do it. I am completely confused!!!

Just wondering if anyone has some advice or similar experiences? I do plan on collecting his semen just in case I ever wanted to breed from him as he comes from very good bloodlines and when he is calm is the best little guy!

Thanks!!

[sas]

I've implanted 2 dogs and the only thing it has stopped is them smelling bitches in season - this is all I was expecting.

If your trainer isn't getting results I would suggest getting a different one and also look at nutrition, supplementation and environment.

[persephone]

:) find another trainer first .

I don't understand why you would use an implant AND have a vasectomy done?

if you are usnure of trainers - perhaps ask on here - someone may know of a good one in the West for you :)

[Andy Pandy]

I've recently gone down the vasectomy/implant path with my young BC. Originally I was going to (reluctantly) have him castrated at 14+ months. He's going to be doing agility so wanted to delay as long as possible. He's on the Limit Register, and also didn't want any risk at all of him breeding accidentally which is very important to me.

After reviewing the literature, and discussing with my vet, I opted for vasectomy rather than castration at 12 months. Very happy with this decision and glad I had this option.

He's high drive, and was proving fairly challenging. Went back to my vet to discuss the options. Most owners opt for castration, assuming it'll calm the dog down. My vet and I agreed that an implant was the best option. This would hopefully modify his behavior, until the effects of maturity and lots of training kicked in. The rationale was that castration had no guarantee of modifying his behavior, just as an implant had no guarantee. As it happens, in his case I don't think the implant had any significant impact, so castration would have been pointless and irreversible.

Consider whether from a medical viewpoint castration or vasectomy is the best option for the dog. Look at behavior separately - be mindful that castration/implant may have zero impact.

I'm happy I have a vet who offers options other than "routine" castration. At 16 months things are gradually settling down. Will review down the track whether or not to have another implant.

My recommendation, for what it's worth, is go down the vasectomy/implant path.

I've PM'd you re a trainer to help you with a challenging/powerful dog.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Andy Pandy

[Ci]

I have meet both ends of the spectrum in terms of behaviour and desexing. I have meet some crazy desexed males and some beautiful calm and mature entire males. So unless you have a crystal ball, it's pretty hard to tell. The only real guarantee is that desexing will stop sex drive and unwanted mating.

Me personally think that if you are not going to breed then desexing would be the direction unless you are an owner that will ensure no accidental mating can happen.

If you are going to breed or want to keep that option for future then the implant would be the option.

My last two males I was going to keep entire but they both become horn little ratbag at different ages, and were getting quite frustrated. Desexing didn't alter their drives or personalities one bit but it stopped most of the frustrating sexual behaviour. One was older when he was done so he still had a tendency to hump every so often!!!

Edited July 31, 2015 by Ci

[RuralPug]

At 12 months old, you have an adolescent dog of a headstrong breed and I honestly don't think that desexing by castration at this point is all that likely to modify his behavior.

Obviously the same will apply to an implant and there are excellent reasons to not depress hormones (by implant or castration) until the final maturity has been attained.

Vasectomy (which is my preferred sterilization option for large breed dogs) does not affect hormones whatsoever, so certainly will not have any effect on behaviour.

I tend to agree with those who have said you need a new trainer, one who has some idea how to teach you to deal with headstrong breeds at this stage in their lives. If you really are stuck with that trainer for some reason, or really want to try one of the options, then I think the implant is the least damaging as it is short term. If there are any behavioural changes with the implant, and presuming that these changes are the ones that you actually want (not guaranteed) then you can always follow up with castration later.

Edited August 3, 2015 by RuralPug

[DesertDobes]

Why do some vets still tell people that desexing will help behavioural issues? And also, imo its not great to desex a large breed before they have at least finished growing which for your fella could be around 3 years or at least 2.

I had to desex my male at 9 months because of a retained teste which does pose a risk of cancer and he ended up very tall and lanky. Before I did that I sought the opinion of the repro vets at Monash Vets (melbourne) who my breeder dealt with to make sure it was the right decision. He's only 5 at the moment so time will tell if the early desexing has negative consequences for his long term health and I didn't have a lot of other options but I would second others opinion here- find a different trainer and leave desexing/ implants for the time being

Edited August 6, 2015 by DesertDobes

[Rebanne]

If you want to collect him then do it before the implant. There have been dogs that the implant was still working for extended times and at least one was sterile afterwards.

[Starkehre]

I strongly suggest you hold off castration for as long as you can, if not indefinitely.

Rottweilers do not hold themselves in good stead for strong and healthy longevity without their sex hormones. Studies show osteosarcoma is more prevalent in castrated males than males left entire as are cruciate injuries.

In fact the only cancer that is more prevalent in entire males over castrated males is testicular cancer, but these rates are lower than prostate cancer which again is more common in desexed males.

Vasectomizing males is an excellent way for breeders to have some control over their puppy people. It will not in any way, shape or form alter the behaviour of your dog. He can and will still have all the same mating urges and abilities, however unsuccessfully manage to sire puppies.

Undesired behaviours are training issues.

If you want to experiment to see if you have any behavioural changes with desexing, try the Suprelorin implant. I doubt you will be satisfied with the result. but if you are you can then desex at around 2 years of age.

I tried the Suprelorin implant in my male Rottweiler. Initially there were some behavioural improvements between 2-3 weeks, then the behaviour reverted back. The sudden drop of testosterone was enough to put him on the back foot for a short time, but the behaviour goes much deeper than the sex hormones.

Keep in mind, any advantages you gain from vasectomizing over castration, you lose if you use the Suprelorin as well. Yes, the Suprelorin is temporary, but even whilst it is temporary the long bones are still not closing and you are still changing the finished construction of your dog be removing the hormones during this crucial time.

[jessg]

Thanks everyone for the replies! I went and saw the vet who does the implant and he suggested I hold off as he is still too young! I could do the implant after at least 18months but best to leave him entire (so prefer no implant at all). After listening to the risks of bone cancer which increases 6 fold and all the other issues I am not going to desex. I still want to be a responsible owner though. I am going to continue with my training with a new trainer as I now think a lot of his behaviour is due to anxiety. He is also on some herbs to help with that too. I do still worry a bit that he may start wandering. We are on 5 acres with horse mesh fencing which I think is 1.2m high. Was thinking of adding the invisible fence too maybe.