Scottie Is An Old Man

[Scottsmum]

Sorry SM - don't want to scare you but believe me - 23 June 2013 was the worst day of my life - and if I can help others avoid it then thats a good thing.

As to non-emergency diagnosis its a combination of the clinical signs I listed above and xray. Then if suspicious confirmed through endoscopy.

I always get worried when people talk about unresolved overnight pacing and/or panting. So I thought Mac's story was worth repeating. In his case nothing resolved the pacing and panting and the dementia drugs (valium, vivitonin etc) didn't help. Whereas you're back to sleeping through the night, his bark's normal and the vivtonin seems to work.

So unless you are worried, I think its more a case of talk it through with your vet when you are next there.

Good advice and I will absolutely mention it. We're there so often getting drug repeats and yadda yadda... they only do three repeats - my old vet did 6 months

He's due a dental sooner rather than later - so we might discuss taking an x-ray on too.

[westiemum]

Good idea SM. How old is Scottie again? And can we have a photo of the beautiful one??

A group I'm still a member of for LP (GOLPP) dogs was a terrific source of information and support for me and Mac. And yet even with all that knowledge and support we still had a dog die two weeks ago when it was bleeding obvious the dog had LP and needed urgent surgery to open the airway - yet the owner insisted on all sorts of non-surgical nonsense (crystals for example ) as the primary therapy until the dog went into crisis - and yes sadly died. And yes it was a miserable death in intensive care for the dog and expensive for the owner which was all so avoidable . By the time the dog got proper care it was already an real uphill battle and it's scary just how quickly things can go downhill and spiral out of control.

So apologies again if I've upset anyone - but this thing is a dreadful disease and requires controlled surgical management and then ongoing careful clinical management to maintain life quality.

I'm so glad Scottie is doing well again. I soooooo want a Scottie one day.

Edited June 15, 2016 by westiemum

[Scottsmum]

Good idea SM. How old is Scottie again? And can we have a photo of the beautiful one??

A group I'm still a member of for LP (GOLPP) dogs was a terrific source of information and support for me and Mac. And yet even with all that knowledge and support we still had a dog die two weeks ago when it was bleeding obvious the dog had LP and needed urgent surgery to open the airway - yet the owner insisted on all sorts of non-surgical nonsense (crystals for example ) as the primary therapy until the dog went into crisis - and yes sadly died. And yes it was a miserable death in intensive care for the dog and expensive for the owner which was all so avoidable . By the time the dog got proper care it was already an real uphill battle and it's scary just how quickly things can go downhill and spiral out of control.

So apologies again if I've upset anyone - but this thing is a dreadful disease and requires controlled surgical management and then ongoing careful clinical management to maintain life quality.

I'm so glad Scottie is doing well again. I soooooo want a Scottie one day.

You've not upset me (or anyone else I assume) - I love you thought to mention it - It's so important to share what you learn along the way. Years ago I fed one of our old boys a HUGE oily dehydrated tendon or something from the markets. less than hours later he was in hospital on a drip with pancreatitis. I'll never repeat the mistake and try to let others learn from it too - no point sitting on info.

As for age.... Pick a number ;) We estimate 12.5 - but as an unchipped stray - who knows.

and I can certainly oblige you with images...

[Scottsmum]

I took him to work in the doggy day care the other day. He was a bit of a creep.

[westiemum]

Hes gorgeous SM. But he does look like he's in the dog house!!

[Scottsmum]

Also at work.

2016-06-15_08-35-12 by Superspanger, on Flickr

Tonight:

2016-06-15_08-33-51 by Superspanger, on Flickr

Puppy paradise - there's 5 toys in this photo and one out of shot.

2016-06-15_08-36-36 by Superspanger, on Flickr

Big sniff walks at one of our favourite parks:

2016-06-15_08-35-56 by Superspanger, on Flickr

Edited June 15, 2016 by Scottsmum

[Scottsmum]

Hes gorgeous SM. But he does look like he's in the dog house!!

Thanks WM - I think he's gorgeous too - my little dog.

[Papillon Kisses]

I wish I lived near you. I would so drop by to help out however you wanted.

Ah PK - Just saw this :heart: - not sure how I missed it! You're a gem. I wish we'd met before I'd moved - I'll be home in October at staying in Marrickville - we should aim for a coffee so I can meet Mal - I mean meet you

Sounds like a plan! :laugh:

Also the photos of Scottie boy.

Oh and I am so very pleased to hear that the Vivotonin is working out!!!

Edited June 15, 2016 by Papillon Kisses

[Scottsmum]

Totally off topic. (But its my own thread so that's OK).

It was so cold here last night, that even with a coat and a polar fleece liner under it Mr Man got under the covers and slept snuggled up in my arms. I mean, that was, after refusing to come to bed and trying to sleep on the couch he finally admitted defeat.

In on-topic news.

2 bad nights a few weeks ago - my own fault I absent-mindedly fed him some treats one of the days and he ate a lot at training (when we did that scent work) - the empty stomach rule for his meds is hard and fast. No food for him after about 1pm otherwise the night meds don't kick in

2 bad nights this week - no reason I can pin point - but we were low on fresh/defrosted dog food so we fed him a frozen patty a few times - which he loves to bury - so it's possible he'd been eating from his personal stash out side of sanctioned times.

[Scottsmum]

So my dear old man had a tiny tumble yesterday - not so gracefully down the two front stairs - he landed on his feet but it was still a tumble. Then I stood on him while we were walking AND THEN he landed, again, not so gracefully on the concrete getting off a couch at doggy daycare. + he's been getting extra walks this week. All in all he pulled up stiff this morning and I've been really wanting to encourage him to sleep in his own bed at night. He's too heavy to sleep on me (but he does) and I don't like him jumping on and off the bed (but he wont use any steps I try to use). Hubby was a away for a few nights too - and Scottie moved to his side of the bed :laugh: and I realised how nice it was to sleep un-pinned.

As a side note - we keep a "dog doona" on the bed - just an old double cover which catches most of the dog debris which is tracked in. With so much rain I needed a second to rotate as some weeks we can have 2 or 3 changes a week So a few weeks ago I went to kmart and got the cheapest cover I could find. Its a great colour - totally my bag - but it's horrible almost parachute style material - poorly made - it's already been mended - but most importantly it washes well and dries incredibly fast - and it was only 12 bucks.

So today - in an attempt to get mr man back in to his own bed - I went back to kmart and got him a single cover to stuff his blankets in (he has an old king doona I got for free of facebook... purposely got the same style - down to the pattern in case it made a difference... and well...

2016-07-14_09-53-47 by Superspanger, on Flickr

It's early days yet but this looks to be a good sign...

Not in the most practical of spots for me - but our room is small and it means I can pat him from my side of the bed. He's passed out in there now - and he put himself in there rather than get up onto the bed with me ... So fingers crossed I can transition him back into his own bed - which should help us both feel a lot less creaky in the mornings.

In terms of other things -touch wood I don't jinx us - but we seem to be going well. He has been a bit off his food recently - I'm wondering if his plastic bowls need chucking or if there's more to it. He's eating well enough when I make a fuss of him. He's also due a dental - I just need to save a bit up - so I hope he's not in pain - I dont think he is as he's eating really well when I fuss over his food. He just needs to hold out a few more weeks (so terrible to say that - but its true). I don't want to put him under but he does need it.

Not much else to add - he's been sleeping through the night like a champ, the meds seem to be working really well. We're due a check up and script refill soon. So I'll have a chat our vet then about some supplements which claim to slow progression of CCD- I think the vivitonin just "masks" the symptoms - don't want him on too many things but slowing him down - keeping him at this level for as long as possible would be a real blessing. I'm not looking forward to the progression (not that any of us look forward to our dogs aging)

and that's kind of that. Just wanted to share the piccy ...

:)

Edited July 14, 2016 by Scottsmum

[Scottsmum]

Oh and ...

I found an amazing facebook support group which is so nice to be a part of - even though we loose at least a dog a week.

and he's started doing this funny thing where he takes shit outside... He's always taken his toys and occasionally his bowls, but now he takes his bowl after ever meal (plastic, metal or ceramic), blankets, I caught him in the office buggering off with a roll of sports tape the other day. It's hilarious and cute but a bit worrying too :)

[Scottsmum]

So ... can I ask a weight Q for anyone who pops in?

(preface this by saying - off for a three monthly check up & script refill next week & will ask the vet then too)

In the last 10 months Scottie has put on just over a kilo (about 1.15 kg). From smack on 10 to 11.15

At first i thougth some of it was down to new scales - and I have a fair idea where the bulk of it came from. I was feeding him some really high calorie treats during March- without realising how calorific they were -he put on close to a kilo. Since then I've been really conscious of his weight and have cut back on treats and been very careful with feeding etc.

He's been on CCD meds (Vivitonin) for just on 3 months now. Since starting the Vivitonin I've been even more controlled with his food - as the meds work best on an empty tummy. Treats are extremely limited - maybe a bully stick once a month. Usually if he gets treats (we use ziwipeak as training treats) they're in place of his meal (eg - we use Ziwipeak for training and conditioning exercises and that's his dinner).

He gets no more than 3/4 cup of VIP grain free dry a day (1/4 cup measured out twice a day with a 1/4 cup measure). Occasionally if he's been off his food for a few days or its extra cold or he's really carrying on I'll give him an extra 1/4 cup after dinner or he'll get an extra 1/4 cup of dry if I'm out of meat. He goes through about 800 grams of pork mince a week, occasionally chicken mince, canned tuna, pork meat cubed up or some times dog meat with tripe (kept in the freezer as back up). But all in all - less than 1kg human quality meat per week the majority of the time. I try to add vegies to his food when possible. Bones are drumsticks or chicken wings - again - as part of his ration. Dinner is taken away before we go to bed. If I'm home - left over breakfast is taken away by midday. When I'm not home - breakfast is left in his crate with him.I try to encourage him to eat - because his meds works better if he eats.

(meds work best if he is medicated, walked then fed 30+ minutes later)

Exercise is lower than it could be because of winter and rain and the new deafness - so his off leash is basically non-existent compared to what it was 18 months ago - but he is walked twice a day totaling between 2-5 kms a day.

So despite regular exercise, limited treats he's still gaining weight. Could it be the Vivitonin? Where do I start - I don't mind if his weight stays around 11kg but I don't want it continuing to go up! and 11 is really at the upper of what it should be. Our lovely Jumabaar said he was good at 10 - so I'd like to aim to get him back there.

I could try a different dry but he's so fussy - he refuses almost anything other than VIP.

OR do I just try and hold out for better weather and the chance for more exercise?

[Loving my Oldies]

I don’t have anything constructive to post, Scottsmum, just wanted to post my support for you and Scottie. :flower:

[Scottsmum]

I don’t have anything constructive to post, Scottsmum, just wanted to post my support for you and Scottie. :flower:

Thanks DDD. how do you keep your oldies trim, taught & terrific?

[The Spotted Devil]

Sweetie pie!

In terms of weight....can you substitute a little cooked, mashed pumpkin to his meals? It will make him feel full but won't add weight. Chicken skin is particularly fatty so I would take that off any RMB you feed - I don't feed drumsticks (technically weight bearing so can splinter a little) and mine would swallow wings whole I suspect - had to switch the puppies to quartered frames at 5 weeks. We always trim the fat off even though none of mine are overweight - I would rather they ate more protein than fat. Also if he will eat whole raw carrots they are great for keeping them busy without adding weight. Otherwise the only thing you can do is feed him slightly less - I notice with my cats that the tiniest change up or down can have a rapid effect on their weight.

[Scottsmum]

Sweetie pie!

In terms of weight....can you substitute a little cooked, mashed pumpkin to his meals? It will make him feel full but won't add weight. Chicken skin is particularly fatty so I would take that off any RMB you feed - I don't feed drumsticks (technically weight bearing so can splinter a little) and mine would swallow wings whole I suspect - had to switch the puppies to quartered frames at 5 weeks. We always trim the fat off even though none of mine are overweight - I would rather they ate more protein than fat. Also if he will eat whole raw carrots they are great for keeping them busy without adding weight. Otherwise the only thing you can do is feed him slightly less - I notice with my cats that the tiniest change up or down can have a rapid effect on their weight.

Thanks TSD.

He is pretty fussy - I wouldn't be able to get him to eat whole raw carrots. I do add mashed (boiled and smashed) sweet potato to his mince.

Will see what other chicken bits I can find for him - he doesn't get them often anymore as he tends to bury them then eat them off schedule messing his meds up.

Will also be a little stricter with the kibble.

[Papillon Kisses]

I'd reduce Scottie's energy intake now, as if you do nothing he may continue on the same weight trajectory. Any increased exercise when the weather fines up will help him reach and maintain his healthier weight in conjunction with the new eating plan.

When Malcolm first went on Prozac he gained weight due to not jumping up and running around barking at every little thing; being constantly wound up burns a lot of energy. Perhaps Scottie is generally moving around less to his blindness, CCD and/or treatment — I seem to recall that pre-Vivotonin he was barking and pacing a lot at night? That would have an impact on his weight.

I'm still trying to get a handle on Malcolm's new energy needs; he keeps gaining and losing the same 200-400g. I'm sure we'll get there eventually.

Edited to add that sweet potato is starchier than pumpkin, so you could also exchange that.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Papillon Kisses

[westiemum]

Sweetie pie!

In terms of weight....can you substitute a little cooked, mashed pumpkin to his meals? It will make him feel full but won't add weight. Chicken skin is particularly fatty so I would take that off any RMB you feed - I don't feed drumsticks (technically weight bearing so can splinter a little) and mine would swallow wings whole I suspect - had to switch the puppies to quartered frames at 5 weeks. We always trim the fat off even though none of mine are overweight - I would rather they ate more protein than fat. Also if he will eat whole raw carrots they are great for keeping them busy without adding weight. Otherwise the only thing you can do is feed him slightly less - I notice with my cats that the tiniest change up or down can have a rapid effect on their weight.

Pretty much what TSD said. I had to keep Mac's weight under control for a multitude of reasons - and sweet potato, zucchini, pumpkin and carrots and beef bones and frames really helped. Just recently Sarah's cholesterol got a bit high so chopped out her beloved morning chicken wing - she thinks I'm the meanest mother in the whole wide world!

[Scottsmum]

Pretty much what TSD said. I had to keep Mac's weight under control for a multitude of reasons - and sweet potato, zucchini, pumpkin and carrots and beef bones and frames really helped. Just recently Sarah's cholesterol got a bit high so chopped out her beloved morning chicken wing - she thinks I'm the meanest mother in the whole wide world!

Thanks (terrible) WM. ;)

[persephone]

Gosh - more changes for you all

perhaps, instead of kibble - he can have a bit of mince OR a chicken wing?

poor Scottie - I hate restricting dog food. (I'm in the bad books as it is .. A couple of The Boss's workers have had a few weeks off - it's been cold - they've had extras ... when he looked closely yesterday he said they looked like labs! LOL )

oops ..Ah well, they enjoyed it

With Scottie's meal - would he scoot around using a treat ball perhaps ? That way a fraction less kibble could take ages to eat , and he wouldn't really miss it ...maybe?

he looks very comfy in his bed - good plan! :)

you are managing all the changes so well !