Teaching Sit

[Rebanne]

I've decided to do some work with Phoebe my 12 month old greyhound. I've enrolled with my local dog club, trained dogs to UD standard in obedience and did Agility, all many years ago. Been positive for many years. But Phoebe is all legs. Never sits naturally so I can't capture it. Tried luring with food over head but she is very tall and very long, does require a light hand on her backside to get the idea of lowering it and in a couple of days did well but.......... I find she is backing up into the sit. I don't want that. I want her front legs to stay in place and her bum to scoot forward. I am not sure how to proceed. I found when I taught my other greyhound girl to sit that she ended up out of position by quite a way because of the walking the front legs backward. I am not confident the club will be able to help. I am mainly going there for motivation. Phoebe loves food so that helps.

[LisaCC]

You could try with a target.

If she's already sitting on command (although not the "right" way).

Teach her to keep her front feet on a target at all times.

Then when that is nice and solid command the sit. Reward for keeping the front feet still on the target and bringing the back feet under, even if the sit isn't perfect straight away.

Also helps with other stationary positions, going from drops - stands - sits, in any order. Solid target is also good for perch work.

[Rebanne]

no she is not yet sitting on command. Once I realised I wasn't happy with what we were doing I stopped.

[The Spotted Devil]

Have you tried teaching her to sit in the corner of a room? I would still lure if she loves food but make it doubly exciting by using THE BEST FOOD EVER when she's really hungry. Make sure it's a good grip too - eg carpet or rubber matting. My Springer offered me a 1000 behaviours for "stand" - so I lined her up parallel to the couch in a sit and then tickled her back leg. Nailed it. Sometimes you just have to think laterally!

[Rebanne]

yes tried the corner of the room, she gets a little anxious there, but she still can walk her front legs back. Might have to try the target. I use KFC popcorn chicken :D When I taught Fern, the backward sit = ending up a couple of lengths behind my leg when we stopped. We would be heeling, we would stop, I'd ask her to sit and have to look behind myself to see her. Or even standing still and in a good position next to me, still end up behind. I might have to get a bit more hands on, re read some of my books. I recall a fold sit taught to large dogs.

[The Spotted Devil]

I've had a few Greys and Whippets in class that don't like either sit or drop - I guess it's a body shape thing and I don't really bother pushing them if they have a preference. But a fun challenge for sure! You could try shaping the hind legs to a clear, raised surface target too.

[Rebanne]

for sure some rear end awareness is needed. Greyhounds stand so beautifully, there is no need to do anything else! :laugh:

[dragonwoman]

yes tried the corner of the room, she gets a little anxious there, but she still can walk her front legs back. Might have to try the target. I use KFC popcorn chicken :D When I taught Fern, the backward sit = ending up a couple of lengths behind my leg when we stopped. We would be heeling, we would stop, I'd ask her to sit and have to look behind myself to see her. Or even standing still and in a good position next to me, still end up behind. I might have to get a bit more hands on, re read some of my books. I recall a fold sit taught to large dogs.

If you are aiming for position I think you might have explained a part of the problem, secret to good positions in heeling is to give command as you stop and bring the dog into position .........but you need to teach what sit is before, but maybe just not next to you to avoid the dog thinking it is right when you aren't happy.....but I think you are fighting anatomy here, greys I have known have sit issues!!

[The Spotted Devil]

for sure some rear end awareness is needed. Greyhounds stand so beautifully, there is no need to do anything else! :laugh:

Exactly! I had this gorgeous elderly lady and her PERFECT Whippet in class once - the dog wasn't food or toy motivated (probably a flirt pole would have worked but the owner was a bit frail) and had zero behavioural issues. I was at a bit of a loss actually because I just wanted to tell the lady to go and enjoy her dog :laugh: She felt obliged to go to a training class with one of the few dogs I've met that didn't need them!

[Rebanne]

yes tried the corner of the room, she gets a little anxious there, but she still can walk her front legs back. Might have to try the target. I use KFC popcorn chicken :D When I taught Fern, the backward sit = ending up a couple of lengths behind my leg when we stopped. We would be heeling, we would stop, I'd ask her to sit and have to look behind myself to see her. Or even standing still and in a good position next to me, still end up behind. I might have to get a bit more hands on, re read some of my books. I recall a fold sit taught to large dogs.

If you are aiming for position I think you might have explained a part of the problem, secret to good positions in heeling is to give command as you stop and bring the dog into position .........but you need to teach what sit is before, but maybe just not next to you to avoid the dog thinking it is right when you aren't happy.....but I think you are fighting anatomy here, greys I have known have sit issues!!

you could be very right there! I've only had one greyhound who sits, none of the others have ever shown any inclination whatsoever. Teaching a sphinx drop is pretty easy though as they have all done that.

[Steph M]

for sure some rear end awareness is needed. Greyhounds stand so beautifully, there is no need to do anything else! :laugh:

BUT if anyone needs you to demonstrate 'nap on the couch' or 'make yourself a really small ball in a cat size bed' you guys have it down I bet!

[Rebanne]

for sure some rear end awareness is needed. Greyhounds stand so beautifully, there is no need to do anything else! :laugh:

BUT if anyone needs you to demonstrate 'nap on the couch' or 'make yourself a really small ball in a cat size bed' you guys have it down I bet!

oh yeah!

we just did some joining up out in the back yard and I threw in a few fold sits and it seemed to be sinking in. This little (big) girl needs a job so it's up to me to find the best way to do it.

[Tassie]

Have you tried her with front feet on a perch box ... obviously, reward that first so she gets the idea front feet stay on the perch, then ask for/lure sit .. so she would have to use her butt for that, since her front feet have to stay on the box/bowl. The perch box/pivot bowl is also great for getting nice rear end movement to get great positions on turns. (Mind you, beware of over-achievers like the Vizsla girl a friend had, who managed to get all four feet on an upturned ceramic dog bowl, and then sit ... made for a really neat sit. :laugh:

The other thing that can work is for you to sit on a chair .. highish dining chair probably .. sitting forward on the edge, and luring the sit in between your knees .. so hands high near your chest.

[Rebanne]

I've tried nothing yet :) perch box? will have to look it up. Umm I don't think my greyhound girl will be like a visla though. I like the chair idea. First night at the club shortly. Will be interesting as they say positive but .... I can see myself saying no not doing that a lot. Certainly will not be teaching her a drop from a sit or not any sort of drop yet. I'd like Phoebe to enjoy this and I'm not trying to drop a skinny minnie greyhound on cold wet grass at this beginning stage. Not sure what they are going to say when I rock up with her in a coat!

[LisaCC]

Have you tried her with front feet on a perch box ... obviously, reward that first so she gets the idea front feet stay on the perch, then ask for/lure sit .. so she would have to use her butt for that, since her front feet have to stay on the box/bowl. The perch box/pivot bowl is also great for getting nice rear end movement to get great positions on turns. (Mind you, beware of over-achievers like the Vizsla girl a friend had, who managed to get all four feet on an upturned ceramic dog bowl, and then sit ... made for a really neat sit. :laugh:

The other thing that can work is for you to sit on a chair .. highish dining chair probably .. sitting forward on the edge, and luring the sit in between your knees .. so hands high near your chest.

This explained what I was trying to say with my target idea much much better

Edited July 8, 2015 by LisaCC

[Rebanne]

well we are back and a star is born! After fumbling around and doing no more then a dozen sits in the last couple of days, I settled on the fold sit and Phoebe took to it like a duck to water. Still going back a little but I think with some of the idea's here we can iron that out but she also offered several sits to the instructor. Her eyes bored holes in me with her focus and her loose lead walking was fantastic. Ok she has been shown for 9 months so had a vague idea but Phoebe really wanted to work for me and with me tonight. I just have to remember to use my voice more ( a 30 year problem ) and to remember she is not a German Shepherd and push her too much. I am going to try and let her push me, let her think it is all her idea and i might, just might, have a greyhound I can trial. :D

Next week it will probably be all doom and gloom but Phoebe showed me what the possibilities are tonight and I have to make sure we find the right paths for us both. :D

[The Spotted Devil]

That's wonderful!!!!

[LisaCC]

[Tassie]

Sounds like you and Phoebe made a great start at class. And I can't imagine anyone in Vic would be worrying about a dog in a coat.

The perch box is just a name for a box (or book - think phone book) or anything with a non-slippery surface that is large enough to accommodate the dog's front feet comfortably, but not much bigger .. and high enough that the dog recognises it as a different place ... probably around 10cm. The upturned bowl I use is a largish ceramic dog bowl .. I'm lucky to have one with an unglazed base, but you could glue something non-slip on it.

Here's kikopup Emily Larlham's video on starting to work with a perch box .. you just need to upscale LOL.

And the same search threw up

showing the use of a pivot/perch for developing and maintaining rear end awareness .. this one's called Lesson 1 .. but it's more like the finished product. To start, you would just click/mark one sideways move with a back leg.

[Rebanne]

It's taken a bit but we are finally getting somewhere with Phoebe's sits. She has picked it up pretty quick - as long as it was in front of me, and has even been offering it to me ( and others ). But sitting next to me has still been a mystery, until tonight, when she finally seemed to grasp the concept and while I still had to guide her Phoebe didn't immediately bounce back up but was happy to stay sitting for quite a few seconds.

She does a lovely high stepping bouncy heel and turns on a dime :D I let her drive me for food. Most things in class I say no to. They still do things the old way. Teaching stays, full recalls (on lead) etc straight away. Older folks will know what I mean. The instructor tonight wanted me to give Phoebe a little tug when she drifted a bit wide. I smiled and said no. He was a bit surprised at that.

Phoebe enjoys herself greatly and I am too.