Melbourne Dog Parks

[Two Best Dogs!]

Edit: Review on page 3

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Hey.

We live in thomastown/Bundoora. My dog is a large timid rescue mutt. A few months back another dog attacked her and we've been working on her fear of dogs since.

She's progressing well (edit: we go to Sunday positive k9 behaviour classes and the odd one on one. Every Thursday we relax outside puppy classes. Every sat we watch kids practice sports) and I'd like to start taking her to dog parks on Saturdays BUT we will not actually be entering the park, we intend to be on the other side of the fence (proper chain fences not those weird log ones dogs can walk under) Just so she can get used to fast moving dogs again and sniff them through the fence.

So would prefer to check out northern and eastern suburbs. I hear diamond creek even has a section for scared dogs?

I'm also near mill park and mernda

Also wondering which ones you reckon have alright people in them? Have had a couple of annoyances where people with angry little dogs get offended when I ask them to not come closer.

And if you know what parks we should avoid forever.

Edited July 18, 2015 by Thistle the dog

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

what parks we should avoid forever

Probably every single one that has a nice solid dog proof fence around it. A scared dog needs to be able to escape...

[Pjrt]

Personally I'd avoid all dog parks. Why do you feel the need for you poor timid fearful dog to go anywhere near a "dog park" . Is there a reason your dog needs to be around fast moving dogs? Does your dog need to sniff them through the fence.

I'd just hang out and walk my dog in less dog congested areas where you can have more control over what happens.

A section for scared dogs sounds like a disaster to me. Scared dogs teaching other scared dogs to be even more scared of dogs, and a bunch of owners who for various reasons have ended up with a scared dog, thinking its great to get a bunch of scared dogs together.......stay the hell away from that idea!

[alpha bet]

Thistle, If you want to learn and build skills to be more comfortable in dog parks.... we run training classes designed just for this. We are not far from you, just up in Wandong which is about 25 minutes north of Epping.

We have our own off leash training area where we run classes... also some large paddocks and a dam paddock, kinda like having an off lead dog park but in this one we have supervision... I set the rules and we guide you thru and give you and your dogs techniques to make socialising more safe.

Check my website.

[Two Best Dogs!]

what parks we should avoid forever

Probably every single one that has a nice solid dog proof fence around it. A scared dog needs to be able to escape...

We said we want to be OUTSIDE the park, so the more solid the fence the better ;)

We know sometimes ppl put aggro dogs in so we'd prefer they be trapped in the park so we can leave if needed.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Thistle the dog

[Two Best Dogs!]

Personally I'd avoid all dog parks. Why do you feel the need for you poor timid fearful dog to go anywhere near a "dog park" . Is there a reason your dog needs to be around fast moving dogs? Does your dog need to sniff them through the fence.

I'd just hang out and walk my dog in less dog congested areas where you can have more control over what happens.

A section for scared dogs sounds like a disaster to me. Scared dogs teaching other scared dogs to be even more scared of dogs, and a bunch of owners who for various reasons have ended up with a scared dog, thinking its great to get a bunch of scared dogs together.......stay the hell away from that idea!

I "feel the need" because she is responding well to the behaviour training and does want to play with dogs, but then when she gets up close to them she scares herself! So I'm helping her overcome her fear with the doggie classes and now... Going and standing outside doggie parks so she can get used to fast moving dogs - but on the other side of the fence so it is not a bad experience. I'm not throwing her into the dog park and walking off ;) she IS doing really well with her fear but we lack opportunities to practice outside of classes

And I can use it too bit worried about fast moving large dogs myself after the attack, so hanging around on other side of fence can relax both of us

We go to dog classes every Sunday (positive k9) and she is doing really well, come a long way. She's not a "poor" dog because we work on her scared issues? sudden movements still surprise her, so we are working on desensitising her to sudden movements because dogs suddenly move a lot. For people we go watch the kids practice footie - she's getting bored of that I think. So now for dogs we are going to go watch dogs zip around.

My understanding is the time out section is for one dog at a time and lets them interact with other dogs with the barrier safety. I'm baffled that you all seem to think I shouldn't be working on her fear and leave her as it is? I'm never going to take her IN to a park, but I don't see any harm in gradually getting closer to the fence and letting her practice polite greeting behaviour. This is also for safety, so I can walk her in the local park and not worry about her freaking out over off leads dogs running up to her. If another dog was freaking her out or teaching her scared behaviour, we would move away.

I think I would be a very bad owner if I practiced avoidance and didn't work on her issues. And I don't push her, at worse we get her a bit worried and work at that point. So if she doesn't want to be closer than 20 metres to the fence, fine, we will practice relaxing 20 metres away from the fence and next week maybe it will be 15 metres.

And yeah, this was a suggestion from positive k9 BECAUSE she is doing so well. No offence, but I trust an accredited trainers advice more ;)

So tomorrow I'm going to a dog park to let her practice greetings safely through a fence, and practice general obedience in the vicinity of other dogs and would appreciate suggestions on one with a reasonable amount of dogs and reasonable people please. I understand you're worried because you don't know all the details but I promise you, they're all tiny little steps with as much controlled conditions as I can get outside of classes.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Thistle the dog

[Two Best Dogs!]

Thistle, If you want to learn and build skills to be more comfortable in dog parks.... we run training classes designed just for this. We are not far from you, just up in Wandong which is about 25 minutes north of Epping.

We have our own off leash training area where we run classes... also some large paddocks and a dam paddock, kinda like having an off lead dog park but in this one we have supervision... I set the rules and we guide you thru and give you and your dogs techniques to make socialising more safe.

Check my website.

Thanks, but we already go to classes every Sunday! I don't ever EVER intend to put her IN a dog park, but practicing ignoring, greetings and desensitising through a dog park barrier will help :) much better than walking through the streets to find a dog in a fenced front yard to practice on. So this will be additional behaviour greeting practice because she is doing really well, just needs practice!

Although can ppl just rent out your off lead area for a one on one dog run and play? She'd like to stretch her legs.

I think if it wasn't for her timid nature she probably would have recovered from the attack fine she does like other dogs but the sudden movements surprise her.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Thistle the dog

[Pjrt]

I guess my post was a bit blunt. I apologise for that.

Ill post a link to an article posted in another part of the forum recently. I have highlighted on bit near the end. It resonated so strongly with me when I read it. Having worked with pet dogs for 29 yrs, I meet a lot of dogs who for one reason or another have been through the 'behaviourial training, behaviour modification' routine. So many times I have seen dogs pushed from one often small manageable issues into a whole lifetime of problems. I guess what Im saying is, be careful what you wish for.

It sounds like you are getting some guidance, but don't take everything or anything, you are told, as gospel. Just as you should question what I am trying to say.

Make sure not to push your dog too hard too fast and end up with more problems than if you hadn't.

While you may not exactly have a 'project dog' at the moment, over doing it can lead to ending up with on, IMHO.

LINK

The Project Dog June 22, 2015 By Blanche Axton

If you've owned dogs for any period of time, you have probably had a project dog. A Project Dog is the dog that presents you with significant behavioural problems. Maybe the dog came to you with issues, maybe you created the issues, or maybe the dog developed them over time. Regardless of how it happened, now you have a Project Dog. It is a dog that brings out both the best and the worst in you. A dog that requires more of you than you had bargained for, tests your skills, and shows the chinks in your training and rehabilitation armour. The dog that makes you feel alone and lonely because sometimes you just don't like the dog and there isn't a soul to whom you can say that without fear of being tagged as a hideous human being.

How They Come to Be

I've had a few project dogs. I have one now. I've given a lot of thought to these dogs over the years. They come to us in a few different ways, in my experience.

They came with issues. I've had a few dogs that I've adopted or purchased that came to me with issues. Sometimes I knew about the issues, sometimes I didn't, and sometimes the person from whom I got the dog either downplayed the seriousness of the issues or they simply didn't know enough to see how serious the issues were. Sometimes the issues simply didn't show up until the dog had settled into my home and had enough invested in life with us to let those issues to show up. My current Project Dog is one of those "late bloomers." I fostered him so I knew he had some glitches, but the full force of the glitches—in this case "isolation distress" and, I suspect, some neurological deficits—didn't show up until he'd been with us for several months.

They came with issues. I've had a few dogs that I've adopted or purchased that came to me with issues. Sometimes I knew about the issues, sometimes I didn't, and sometimes the person from whom I got the dog either downplayed the seriousness of the issues or they simply didn't know enough to see how serious the issues were. Sometimes the issues simply didn't show up until the dog had settled into my home and had enough invested in life with us to let those issues to show up. My current Project Dog is one of those "late bloomers." I fostered him so I knew he had some glitches, but the full force of the glitches—in this case "isolation distress" and, I suspect, some neurological deficits—didn't show up until he'd been with us for several months.

You created the issues. Sadly, I've done this in the past. I had border collies many years ago and I created a suspicious dog who was inclined to lash out first because of my own ham handed use of compulsion. In those days I was solidly in the camp that believed dogs MUST obey every command (and I'm using the word 'command' deliberately) given, obey instantly and if they didn't, you must MAKE them by any means necessary. There certainly was no use of food reinforcers or even much play as a reward. It was "I say – You do" training. I had been lucky to have had a couple of dogs that just rolled with it and did not resist. But my one bitch was not a "go with the flow" dog. She and I locked horns early on and in my misguided and overly forceful efforts to get compliance, I created a Project Dog. She lost trust in me, and approached most of our further interactions with wariness and a willingness to defend herself vigorously if needed. She may have turned out differently in the hands of a more skilled, less punishing owner. But I also think that she was somewhat hard wired to be less flexible and more deeply impacted by punishment than my previous dogs had been. I don't know. But I definitely carry the weight of the issues that dog developed. I am confident I created them.

They developed them over time. This group of Project Dogs are probably the most disheartening. The dogs that develop issues and become Project Dogs for no discernible reason. They just do. I do believe these dogs exist, as I've worked with them. Some seem to be genetically more easily frightened, more inclined to anxiety, less resilient, less able to cope with the life that they live. They drew the short straw in the genetics lottery. Who knows why, but I have seen dogs that have come from solid breeders, had skilled and knowledgeable owners, and yet still developed significant behavioural issues.

The Good, The Bad and The Ugly

Life with a Project Dog is not all misery and grimly clenched teeth. There are good things about them—although you may not see it at the time. There are also aspects that aren't so great and some are downright awful.

The Good: A Project Dog makes you look seriously at your skill level in your work with your dog. You have to review and evaluate how you work with this dog. A Project Dog should force you to research and read everything you can get your hands on about how to work with their specific issues. AND you will have to bring ALL your skills at analysing what is and isn't a solid strategy for dealing with this particular dog.

A Project Dog forces you to break down your work into manageable pieces and to log observable progress if you hope to be at all effective. It forces you look at things objectively, to track what is working and what isn't. If you are smart, you keep logs so you can compare what you think you see happening with what you've actually observed and noted. This can do two important things. First, it can show you progress that's been made. Second, it can derail our tendency to project our desire to see progress that isn't really there.

A Project Dog slaps you in the face with reality. It forces you to look at what you had dreamed of/hoped for/expected from this dog and then deal, realistically, with the dog that is in front of you. This is no easy task. I have a very fearful Japanese Chin. He was going to be my sports dog, my foray into all things competitive. Guess what? Not so much. It took me a long time to come to terms with what Meesh (my Japanese Chin) is as opposed to what I wanted him to be. He's a great dog, but the competitive dog sports circuit is not in our future. Now that I've readjusted my expectations and quietly washed my sports dreams away, we are both happier.

Meesh has also highlighted some errors in my own thinking about working with a fearful dog. I thought I knew what baby steps were. I didn't. Scared Japanese Chin baby steps are not the same as Scared Pug baby steps. The other thing that having Meesh in my life has done is made me realize that an accurate understanding of breed characteristics is useful. Chins, generally, are inclined to timidity, suspiciousness and aloofness with strangers. I didn't take that particular description seriously enough. I love Meesh, but he has forced me to readjust my expectations and not dismiss breed characteristics out of hand.

A Project Dog can show you what you can and cannot live with. This is a good thing, although the process of coming to that realization can be painful. As a trainer, having a Project Dog reminds me of what my clients feel and live. It gives me fresh perspective on why people get so frustrated, so overwhelmed, so hopeless, so willing to try anything.

The Bad: Working and living with a Project Dog can be seriously isolating. People can view you as some kind of human monster when your dog fires off on leash or at the door. Or when they cower in fear as a well meaning stranger continues to encroach on your space even while you are body blocking them from your dog and asking them to "Please! Stop!" It is easy to feel like you are the only one with a dog like this and that if you had any skills at all, your dog would be happily frolicking at the dog park with all the other dogs.

I'm putting this in the 'bad' category because it is such a struggle for many people and lots of judgement can get heaped on you as a result. You may not be able to "fix" this and you may need to use medications to even get the dog to a place where their brain can take in any rehabilitation strategies. Many folks struggle away for months and years with "nutriceuticals", homeopathics, etc when the dog needs serious pharmacological help. Just as many people have doubts and concerns with human psychiatric meds, many project that onto dogs needing medication assistance.

Beware the "Love Network." My husband calls the well meaning but utterly clueless folks who think "Love and Time" can cure all ills of a dog as the "Love Network." Watch out for these folks. They will make you feel like a penny waiting for change. They don't mean to be soul destroyers, but they imply that if you only loved your dog more, had more patience, devoted more time to the dog, the issues would be fixed.

Project Dogs can require life long, life altering management. My shih tzu mix has serious isolation distress. And by serious, I mean that I need to be sure that my life is structured to keep him safe and minimize his stress. He is quite capable of jumping onto my office chair, onto the second floor window sill and flinging himself through the screen in his efforts to get to me. I have to be super vigilant about a great many things now that I didn't have to be vigilant about before adopting him.

The Ugly: You may at some point come up against a dog that you simply cannot live with for any one of a number of reasons. You are then in the unenviable position of deciding if this dog can or should be re-homed or if euthanasia is the most humane answer. Let me be clear, I take the decision about euthanasia very seriously and do not euthanize a dog because they are inconvenient. However, the ugly side of the Project Dog can be that re-homing is not only not possible, it's not humane, responsible, or in the best interests of the dog.

Some Project Dogs CAN be re-homed and can be happier in a different environment than yours, but this is not the case in every situation. I'll use my shih tzu mix, Ty, as an example. Re-homing him would be one of the worst things I could do. He is already somewhere between 10 and 12, has likely been re-homed prior to coming to me and dogs with isolation distress and separation anxiety really suffer serious consequences from being re-homed, especially multiple times. And in all honestly, I would not wish on anyone what I've had to do to keep him safe and try to reduce his distress. I spend a fortune on dog sitters so he is not alone. I've had to turn down work because I either could not bring him with me, couldn't get a dog sitter, or was going to be gone FAR too long for him to be without a human in the house.

I have to be very vigilant about all the possible cues I give that set him up for anxiety well before I leave the house. He is quite capable of seriously injuring or killing himself in his distress when alone. He's on medication that, while not outrageously expensive, isn't cheap. He's clearly had some previous bad experience with people leaving him alone and has some generalized anxiety about a number of things. He's a boat load of work, worry, and expense. And while money isn't the most important thing in the world, I'd be lying if I acted like it isn't a factor in what people with Project Dogs have to deal with.

Judgement and guilt. People are very quick to condemn the person who realizes that they cannot deal with or live with the issues of their dogs. I'm not talking about the person who is just not willing to put in even minimal effort. I'm talking about the owner who has seriously evaluated the dog, themselves, the quality of life for both the dog and the humans and the ability of both to cope with what they are facing over the long term. Re-homing a dog is not necessarily a wrong decision and is not de facto evidence that the human is a lazy, insensitive, and careless clod. Euthanizing a dog is also not necessarily a wrong decision. It can be the most humane thing we can offer a dog, not that I expect everyone to agree with me on that. What's ugly in this scenario is the judgement from people outside of the situation. The nasty comments. And the guilt that it puts on an owner who has really gone the extra mile (or miles in some cases) in their efforts to help their dog.

The Guaranteed Fix. Those of us with Project Dogs can become so obsessed with finding the cure, the fix, or the answer to our dog's problem that we can go where angels fear to tread. We can be easy targets for the snake oil salesmen. The newest protocol. The latest "quick" way for dealing with reactivity, dog aggression, separation anxiety. This can lead us to see methods we would never consider as viable alternatives. To see behavioural suppression as progress. To use flooding rather careful counter conditioning and desensitization.

We can place ourselves, and more importantly, our dogs onto a slippery slope where the welfare of the dog is sacrificed for anything that looks like progress. We need to check our own thoughts about what the dog needs. Does your dog really NEED to be able to play with other dogs? Is that a necessary condition for thatdog to be happy? Says who?

Generally, when I see someone talking about guaranteed and 'quick' fixes to canine behavioural issues, my intuitive senses start tingling. Few serious behavioural issues are quickly fixed, if they can be said to be fixed at all. I can't even guarantee my own behaviour over the long term so I sure won't make any guarantees about the dogs. Be careful when you read about the newest, fastest, guaranteed fix for a canine behavioural issue….here there be dragons.

Why I am writing this

Because it's five in the morning on a Sunday when I had hoped to sleep in. But I have to work later in the morning and my shih tzu mix is having an anxiety day. I had to abandon sleep for some extra time to try and get his stress reduced before I leave the house. He won't be alone, my husband will be home, but he's stressing NOW so I have to deal with that. These can be the dark moments of the soul. The times when I close my eyes and think "I wish I hadn't adopted him" and then feel massive, overwhelming guilt for even having that thought.

But I do have that thought. Not often. And I wouldn't change what I did. I did adopt him. I will work on his issues. We will get through this. But some days are easier than others and I need to learn that it's not a crime to feel some negativity from time to time. I need to be able to think those thoughts. Sometimes I need to be able to say them out loud to someone. Anyone. I have been fortunate to know a very few people that I can say those kind of things to and not be cast into the lowest circles of Hell.

And on the days where I can't say those things out loud to anyone, I write them. I add them to the behavioural log I keep about Ty. And at some point, I will hopefully look back and think "Wow. We've made such progress. I've made such progress".

[persephone]

Thistle is a fortunate and much adored girl ( and gorgeous) :)

I hope the strategy you are using does all that you wish .

I also hope that she stays safe :)

There is a poster called Snook , who has the amazing JUSTICE dog . Search for her posts , as Justice , an older fellow has his demons too ... and thanks to his amazing 'mum' enjoys life to the full .

[Two Best Dogs!]

Thanks blinkblink! Yeah I jumped the gun in my reply haha, I'm fearful reactive for my dog and get a bit defensive ;) A lot is I don't want her to end up like the dog who attacked her (pts) so we really focus on "bad" behaviours and also due to her size. So I'm very serious on her training and behaviour. But I wouldn't put her through it if I didn't see it helping her. She went for a pat from a strange man last night, major milestone

The trainer has also mentioned to avoid pushing her or rushing her so we don't undo all her work. He reckons fence greets will be okay just cause we do it already with one on one dog sessions when she was I her growling fear stage (she's more a worried sniffing stage now, nips if they move too fast)

That is a lot of resources! I will devour that during lunch, we try many things. She's a star with clicker and positive training. She is really a different dog from 5 months ago

But number one rule is to take it slowly and nudge her, but never ever push her.

Number two is we will never go INTO to a dog park because we don't know other dogs.

Number 3 is I carry a break stick and she has a "flee" Command....

Alas, just arrived at work...

Edited July 2, 2015 by Thistle the dog

[persephone]

..and we (I) need more thistle pics in the 'photos, photos' thread ;)

[Leah82]

sounds like the OP wants to play a bit of 'look at that' with her dog which sounds like a good idea the increase the exposure to other dogs

Whittlesea Public Gardens in Lalor has a fenced off dog area although I'm not sure how busy it would be at the moment, it gets pretty boggy in winter

If you want to go a little further afield I know Craigieburn has a fenced dog park as well

Diamond creek looks good too

[Two Best Dogs!]

..and we (I) need more thistle pics in the 'photos, photos' thread ;)

Haha! I will do that tonight. We have a semi "before" picture too (none from At her worst, too busy confidence building to take pics then :c)

[Two Best Dogs!]

sounds like the OP wants to play a bit of 'look at that' with her dog which sounds like a good idea the increase the exposure to other dogs

Whittlesea Public Gardens in Lalor has a fenced off dog area although I'm not sure how busy it would be at the moment, it gets pretty boggy in winter

If you want to go a little further afield I know Craigieburn has a fenced dog park as well

Diamond creek looks good too

That sounds right? Sorry I'm still learning all the terms for things. But there is a thing where she gets rewarded for calmly looking at things then looking at me. So she can check things out and go "oh that's alright! Okay I am okay!" . Thanks :D and yeah if Saturday turns out to be one of those things that just doesn't work with her, I'll stop. But she impresses me with her response so far. Only been in classes for 5 weeks and we've gone from personal space circle of 2 metres dogs, 3 metres ppl to okay being near and sometimes sniffing! But practice builds confidence.

Figure we will only be there 30 mins for the first time. Praise and treats just for sitting calmly or sniffing or chilling and so much roo if she does politely sniff. And only once a week.

Okay I must resist this thread until lunch ;)

[persephone]

resist going on D O L ? Good luck with that!! It often needs to be done with assistance :p :p

[Two Best Dogs!]

I guess my post was a bit blunt. I apologise for that.

Ill post a link to an article posted in another part of the forum recently. I have highlighted on bit near the end. It resonated so strongly with me when I read it. Having worked with pet dogs for 29 yrs, I meet a lot of dogs who for one reason or another have been through the 'behaviourial training, behaviour modification' routine. So many times I have seen dogs pushed from one often small manageable issues into a whole lifetime of problems. I guess what Im saying is, be careful what you wish for.

It sounds like you are getting some guidance, but don't take everything or anything, you are told, as gospel. Just as you should question what I am trying to say.

Make sure not to push your dog too hard too fast and end up with more problems than if you hadn't.

While you may not exactly have a 'project dog' at the moment, over doing it can lead to ending up with on, IMHO.

....snip....

The Guaranteed Fix. Those of us with Project Dogs can become so obsessed with finding the cure, the fix, or the answer to our dog's problem that we can go where angels fear to tread. We can be easy targets for the snake oil salesmen. The newest protocol. The latest "quick" way for dealing with reactivity, dog aggression, separation anxiety. This can lead us to see methods we would never consider as viable alternatives. To see behavioural suppression as progress. To use flooding rather careful counter conditioning and desensitization.

We can place ourselves, and more importantly, our dogs onto a slippery slope where the welfare of the dog is sacrificed for anything that looks like progress. We need to check our own thoughts about what the dog needs. Does your dog really NEED to be able to play with other dogs? Is that a necessary condition for thatdog to be happy? Says who?

Generally, when I see someone talking about guaranteed and 'quick' fixes to canine behavioural issues, my intuitive senses start tingling. Few serious behavioural issues are quickly fixed, if they can be said to be fixed at all. I can't even guarantee my own behaviour over the long term so I sure won't make any guarantees about the dogs. Be careful when you read about the newest, fastest, guaranteed fix for a canine behavioural issue….here there be dragons.

Why I am writing this

Because it's five in the morning on a Sunday when I had hoped to sleep in. But I have to work later in the morning and my shih tzu mix is having an anxiety day. I had to abandon sleep for some extra time to try and get his stress reduced before I leave the house. He won't be alone, my husband will be home, but he's stressing NOW so I have to deal with that. These can be the dark moments of the soul. The times when I close my eyes and think "I wish I hadn't adopted him" and then feel massive, overwhelming guilt for even having that thought.

But I do have that thought. Not often. And I wouldn't change what I did. I did adopt him. I will work on his issues. We will get through this. But some days are easier than others and I need to learn that it's not a crime to feel some negativity from time to time. I need to be able to think those thoughts. Sometimes I need to be able to say them out loud to someone. Anyone. I have been fortunate to know a very few people that I can say those kind of things to and not be cast into the lowest circles of Hell.

And on the days where I can't say those things out loud to anyone, I write them. I add them to the behavioural log I keep about Ty. And at some point, I will hopefully look back and think "Wow. We've made such progress. I've made such progress".

Thanks :)

Yeah I agree with the red part. Early on when I got her we were rushed with some well meaning people and "quick fixes". Nothing too traumatic or impactful, but it left a feeling of failure each time and was disheartening. Ie a couple of days after the attack it was just meant to be a quiet walk in the vicinity of dogs so she didn't ...dunno the correct word, get in a rut from being hidden away in the house, but a lady convinced me to let the two dogs sniffed even after I explained our distance and yup thistle growled like I expected and we moved away and she gave us such a look

I'm getting very good at saying No to ppl coming over with their dogs. She's not ready for random hellos outside of controlled.

So definitely going to take our steps slow. No rushing in, just test new things out at a distance then get closer but monitor her at all time (and make sure no off lead dog is running up to surprise us! D: hopefully ppl let them off lead once they're actually in the fenced zone...

And sometimes disheartened but I've got a log too, and some before pics. And the trainers have been really nice every time I get a little down cause she's having a back sliding day.

If she doesn't want to play with dogs, I don't mind. (Although I think she does. We do have a friends dog she met before the attack and is quite interested in other dogs until we are too close) But I do want, for her own safety, to be able to ignore dogs and be able to relax with every day life. Also, camping in a year if she's up to it :D

[Two Best Dogs!]

Thanks Pers. :)

Hi Thistle. :) As Persephone mentioned, I've been through this with my boy, Justice. I'm certainly not an expert but I did spend more than two years working closely with a behaviourist to rehabilitate him. Unfortunately he got attacked twice in two months last year and we are now worse off than when we started in terms of his fear and are now under the care of a veterinary behaviourist and he was started on medication two weeks ago.

It sounds like Thistle is similar to Justice with not being a confident dog and being fearful of other dogs. From what you've described you're doing all of the right things and following a similar rehabilitation process to what we went through. Rewarding Justice for looking at other dogs calmly and looking back at me was the foundation of a lot of the work we did and although using this to build confidence, change emotional responses to triggers and decrease the threshold distance (the distance your dog can be from the trigger without going over threshold) can be a slow process, it's very effective.

I too took Justice to the outside of a dog park for extra practice but I actually found it wasn't terribly helpful because the dogs in the park were much more worked up than most dogs you see out and about walking on leash. They tended to come up to the fence with high arousal levels and carry on in a way that isn't considered to be polite by most dogs. This did nothing to reinforce for Justice that other dogs will listen to his cues and actually increased the distance we had to be from the other dogs in order for Justice to stay calm, which is a bit counter productive. You also need to be on the lookout for dogs who have been let off leash before they get inside the park.

All of that being said, it's certainly something you can try but I would go at off peak times and not when it's busy. It may mean you have to wait longer between dogs to practice on but a group of dogs racing up to the fence all at once to check Thistle out will probably just frighten him.

Good luck on your rehabilitation journey and you're wonderful for putting so much time and effort in to helping your dog. There's a thread in the training sub forum called Exercising Reactive Dogs that is full of fantastic information and support. It's about a lot more than finding places to exercise, even though that's what the thread was originally started for. :)

Hi snook!

Oh no poor justice! Dog attacks are horrible the bull terrier x grabbing her was the worse most impactful but she has also been harassed by an angry terrier up the road - the owners left it off lead in a fence less front yard and it nipped at her heels so she's really not keen on little yapping dogs. But at training the dog she gets along most is a yappy terrier (prob cause other owner and I are putting special effort in relaxing the two nearby. His dog dislikes large dogs but is ok with thistle so helpful for both...)

Yeah, I noticed major improvement when I started rewarding her for looking around then looking at me. It let her relax because she knew it was okay to check things out and dismiss them? Her threshold for both ppl and dogs has really decreased, we can walk past most dogs with minimal worry at a decent speed. And she doesn't start baying at ppl across the road...

Yeah better during off peak. I'm thinking sniff maybe one or two dogs if she wants, through fence, then give all the praise and call it a day while it's going good!

I will check out that sub! Everything is on lead so far but damnit she loves water I want to let her run around in water without worrying over other dogs or ppl ;)

[Leah82]

If you want to go camping I couldn't recommend Beechworth enough, There's a road called Woolshed Rd that goes between Beechworth and Eldorado and there are plenty of campsites along the Reedy Creek.

We've been up there quite a few times, I think it says Dogs must be on lead but the campsites are so far apart we've never had any problems letting ours wander around the campsite and go for a swim in the creek.

We've never encountered other dogs at the campsite, only in town

This is proper bush camping though, no toilets or fresh water provided :p

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Thistle the dog...

There is this thing about dog fences... I've seen two dogs having a full on go at each other - teeth bared, gnashing, growling, fence slamming... only to find - just 2m that way - the fence ends and there was no barrier at all.

And the behaviour of the two dogs towards each other where there was no fence. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

Ie polite apologies and careful sniffing then ignoring... WTF?

So allowing your dog to greet another dog through a fence may not do anything useful.

Some things that help.

1. What I do. Seriously - if I yell at someone to keep their dog away - my dog wants to help. So I have to be all polite and smiles and do my best to avoid but sometimes - the problem dog sneaks up on us and my dog goes over the top (TAR - Too Aroused to Respond) (yeah I know not a proper acronym). And all I can do is try to get her attention on me and wait for the owner who is almost always a bit thick - because my dog was getting along fine with those other dogs there... but not the new one... hello? Pack ok - not strangers. I usually get my dog slightly off her front feet so she can't lunge at the other dog. Ie the less of the unwanted behaviour she can manage the better.

2. Really short greetings with under control (on lead) new dogs, ie say hello, lets go... You can do this more than once with the same dog but don't give either long enough to say something the other one thinks is rude.

3. Having a cue word for "friend". So mine is "who dat dere?" and if I say that it puts my dog in a very happy frame of mind whether we get to say hello or not. With a new dog - there is hardly any chance of a bad reaction from my dog if I've used this cue. I don't like to use it with a dog that I know will trigger her, or one that is off lead - because if that dog gets in her face - it can still go pear shaped and I damage my cue. But it's great for stopping her from reacting to dogs over there.

4. frustration and back chaining - ie no food allowed. One of the things my dog loves best is food and hence loves foraging at the park. This can be extremely bad for her health - because loads of things that dogs must not eat get dropped in the school playground or dumped out of cars which have finished with their chicken take away. So my dog will fake wanting to greet and play with another dog - in order to get off lead. It used to work and she'd go foraging (not playing - argh). These days I don't let her off lead - which leads to frustration. I used to try to get her attention back with food. That did not end well either. Ie she'd get frustrated, bark and lunge cos she wanted to get off lead... I'd try food, she'd stop barking and lunging and eat, but she'd work out, bark and lunge - get food. OOPS. The brainier the dog the worse and more complicated this "back chaining" can be.

It's impossible to say how many dogs and people you should look for to help retrain your dog. It all depends on your dog's threshold. Which is easier to manage with distance. The more people around - the more likely there will be one who doesn't give a stuff about leash laws or checking first to see if it's ok to let their dog greet yours.

Hence you'd be better off working at the edge of a dog training club or competition where all the dogs are on lead or under control.

[Two Best Dogs!]

If you want to go camping I couldn't recommend Beechworth enough, There's a road called Woolshed Rd that goes between Beechworth and Eldorado and there are plenty of campsites along the Reedy Creek.

We've been up there quite a few times, I think it says Dogs must be on lead but the campsites are so far apart we've never had any problems letting ours wander around the campsite and go for a swim in the creek.

We've never encountered other dogs at the campsite, only in town

This is proper bush camping though, no toilets or fresh water provided :p

! Thanks! I will write that down! So far just day trips, easing her into the idea of hiking but she's been great so far! When it gets warmer we will practice tent behaviour in our backyard then hopefully go on some trips next year. She carries her back pack like a champ.

Edit. Argh mobile.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Thistle the dog