Advice On New Dog

[mjn]

Hi Everyone.

I was hoping to get some advice/education. We lost our two dogs at the beginning of the year and while the loss was and still is devastating we are now looking to give a home and love to another dog. When I found my babies I had no idea about puppy mills or any of the horrible things that go on, I was also 19 and naive enough not to think people could be so cruel! This time around I want to make sure that I am responsible and I don’t support the wrong kind of people.

One of my last dogs was a cross breed and she came from a friend of a neighbour, the other was a pure breed from a pet store (not in a shopping centre) so I am unsure where she came from .

I have been looking at all the adoption centres in our area and all the dogs seem to be really big breeds or they state the dog needs to have children around or they shouldn’t have children around or they dislike men etc. The problem is we need a dog on the smaller side due to a medium sized back yard and while we don’t have kids now we will be in the next 2-3 years.

I have been also been looking into getting a puppy from a breeder and I’m finding this harder than I thought I would. I have been looking for a Jack Russell Chihuahua cross as we really loved our dogs temperament, but I am worried this might just be supporting the puppy mills. Are cross breeds more likely to (or do they mostly) come from puppy mills than pure breeds? Do registered breeders breed cross breeds?

What pure breeds would you recommend instead? I was also considering a Jack Russell however I am concerned about high energy and if daily walks around the neighbourhood would be enough.

Also how do you find a registered breeder and ensure they are above board?

Thank you for your help. :)

Melissa

[Dame Aussie]

A registered breeder does not breed crosses, most crosses come from backyard breeders or puppy mills.

The ethical choices are rescue or a good breeder (check they're registered with your states canine council and that they do health testing and place importance on temperament) the listings on this site are a good place to start your research on a breeder and you can also do some research into rescues that work with your choice of breed or just small dogs in general. There are a few around just do a search online.

I think a daily walk plus the usual attention, i.e. playing, training etc, would be fine for a Jack Russell :)

[Dory the Doted One]

If you're not sure that a Jack Russell temperament is quite hitting the mark...what about a Tenterfield Terrier?

[Simply Grand]

Hi Melissa, good on you for doing your research to make sure you are getting a dog from an ethical source :)

Re your comment that you are looking at a Jack Russel x Chi because you loved the temperament of your last one, bear in mind that it is highly unlikely another of the same cross will have the same temperament. When it comes to cross breeds it's anyone's guess which traits of each breed the pups will get so you could easily end up with a dog completely the opposite of the one you had before.

Even in pure breeds there is lots of variation between individuals, even within the same litter, so your best bet might be to identify what it is that you want in a dog (which you've started to do already re size, exercise levels etc) then either get some recommendations for breeds and a good breeder who can match you with the kind of temperament you are looking for from the puppies in their litter OR talk to rescue groups and shelter staff about an individual dog or puppy that would suit you.

[persephone]

Is this any help ?CLICK

Cross breed puppies are often 'accidents' . They can also be the result of someone wanting cash ..so they mate trixie and toby next door, and sell the pups. Then there are the establishments who produce crossbreeds in large numbers- driven by looks ..and purely for income .

[Salukifan]

I wonder, if you described what you loved about your last dog, it would lean more towards the JRT or the Chi side... it may be that one of those purebreds might quite suit you.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Haredown Whippets

[Little Gifts]

Melissa do you know about Pet Rescue? The majority of rescue groups will list their dogs on there and you can search by size of dog, age, gender and state. It could be a starting point for you to see what is out there if you don't pursue a dog through a good registered breeder.

https://www.petrescue.com.au/

If you do decide to go with a rescue dog there is a list here of rescue groups in QLD as I'm not sure what part of the state you live in. Some of these groups will also have websites and Facebook pages and you could find a local group you'd like to support and monitor it for suitable dogs/puppies as they become available. A good rescue group will have their dogs in foster care and know what type of family they are looking for, aiming to match you with the right dog for your personal situation rather than just selling you any old dog like a pet shop or back yard breeder will. Likewise, a good registered breeder will be aiming to make a lifelong match.

https://www.petrescue.com.au/rescue_directory?utf8=%E2%9C%93&term=&state=3&commit=Filter

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. A house can be incredibly empty when you are used to multiple dogs!

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

the Animal Welfare League in Brisbane is also a good place to go. Petrescue definitely covers a great range of dogs too.

Perhaps you could offer to foster a dog for a rescue group - you will save a life and also get to see how you feel about the dog - I'm a veteran foster carer and there's only a few that I really wanted to keep over the years!

WHy not contact JRT Rescue a member here, she's an expert on Jack Russells and I think the broken coated ones are easier to own than the short coated for some reason. Jill would be happy to share her expertise. (I've got a JRT by the way - they are quite naughty but I love them).

Good luck.

[Willowlane]

Hi Melissa

I thought I would give you some info on my experiences on dogs as we (my family and I) have owned both crosses and purebreds over the last 27+ years.

We had purebred Rotweilers when I was growing up, then a purebred Welsh Springer Spaniel (we got him for free from a breeder as he had grown over height and couldn't be shown anymore) and a purebred Golden Retriever.

Next came another purebred Welsh Springer Spaniel (my first dog who I still have) and our first pet shop purchase a silky x maltese.

Next was a Begalier (beagle x Cavalier King charles spaniel) but he is quiet big for a 'begalier' so I think he's been crossed with more a hound type dog and a Chihuahua x maltese x Silky, her two brothers were very Chihuahua with short coats, she is very very fluffy...just shows how different litters can be even thought they are from the exact same parents.

Next dogs was sprocket a border collie who was full border collie but being a pet store purchase (even though not from a super market was not hip scored and he needed a full hip replacement by the age of 3! Mostly all purebred dogs with any questions regarding hip issues have their parents hip scores available for you to view.

Then my dog Mapie a cocker spaniel, I know she is back yard bred as she is slightly bigger than your purebred cocker but she has all the same traits, looks (even cocker breeders have said she just a big cocker) lol I would never buy a pet store dog again after the trouble we had with the border collie and his hips but I adore my girl and everything she is. To me she is 100% perfect in every way.

Last purchases have been Oaki a purebred Border Collie whose parents are all tested! and Willow a Purebred English Springer Spaniel who is just divine.

Although we have owned both purebred and what I call derivatives (crosses) most of our crosses have deviations in their conformation, mostly slightly wonky legs etc but overall except the hip replacement everyone has been very healthy...purebred and derivative I would now only ever buy from a registered breeder, no more pet stores be it in a supermarket or out in a stand alone pet store.

I found the border Collie and English Springer spaniel breeders on here under the breeders section, very reliable information.

[Scottsmum]

What state are you in?

[Christina]

Check the puppies list on here & the Dogs Queensland site for registered breeders.

When you find a puppy for sale arrange to visit the breeder.

When a puppy buyer visits me I show them my Dogs SA registration, pedigrees & health tests.

They meet all my dogs, even the old desexed dogs as well as pups & parents. They cuddle the pups & I show them the puppy room & garden, explain how the pups are raised & explain to them the puppy room is where the pups can run free in safety when I can't watch them around the house. Tell them their pups come with a written vet health check, vaccine, microchip, desexed, receipt, diet & care sheet & grooming sheet & ask if they have any questions.

If you feel comfortable with the breeder & are happy with the way the dogs are raised & their environment then you can purchase your puppy or leave a deposit.

If you are not happy with everything walk away no matter how cute that puppy is.

Good luck with your new puppy & please post photos on here when you get him or her.

[juice]

perhaps you could list the things you liked in your previous dog to get advice on which breed would suit? i second jill from jack russel rescue,she could match up a dog for you, they come in different ages and temps. i used to own a rough coat jack in the UK , loved them.

[mjn]

Thank you everyone for your help. I realised after reading your comments (and a lot of soul searching) I have been looking for a Jack Russell x Chi due to grief and that is not fair to the next dog we have. Her loss was just so sudden it took me a while to accept. And as much as I loved Chloe she wouldn’t have been good with kids she could be very snappy at times. My brother also reminded me today that when we picked up my “pure” Dashound Jessica she was only 5 weeks old, I wish I knew then what I know now. I loved her to bits but she had so many health problems, cost us close to 10k in back surgeries. I have no doubt she came from a puppy farm. No breeder worth anything would let the dogs go before 8 weeks. She was a very clingy dog and really hard to train. The store insist they source from responsible breeders, but I doubt it. Definitely never going to a pet store again!!

We have decided to adopt and I have called a few rescue places and we may be visiting AWL tomorrow. I had no idea they have them de-sexed and fully vaccinated when you adopt their puppies, that is a huge help and savings! My fiancé has already fallen in love with a kelpie x. I explained the amount of exercise they will need and i hope he has changed his mind!

Dame Aussie – Thank you. I had a feeling. I could only find mix breeds at the pet stores which seemed like a huge red flag.

Dory – Oh wow thank you. I have never heard of them before, they look just like JRs so adorable. I will keep a look out at the rescue.

Simply Grand – Thank you. Like I said above I really wish I knew this information when I got my last puppies. The more I hear about puppy mills and irresponsible pet owners it makes me so sad people can be like that. You are totally right about temperament and personality, I think it would also be way too easy for me to compare and get disappointed if the dog is different which is not good.

Persephone – I was talking to a rescue place today and she was explaining they are getting a heap of puppies in soon from a woman who hadn’t de-sexed her pets, they had already received 10 and know there were many other litters. She doesn’t even know which dog is the father and apparently the RSPCA can’t do a thing to stop her. The rescue organisations are working with her to get them de-sexed but it’s so sad there are no laws stopping this behaviour. They are Jack Russell x ? Do you think these would have a lot of health problems coming from a home like that? They are very cute though.

Haredown Whippets – Honestly I think I just loved seeing her happy and she was so snuggly. I am now really looking forward to making a new friend and giving them a loving home.

Little Gifts – yes thank you :), there seem to be a few more small dogs in my area now. I found out they had an app too! Really cool.

Her Majesty Dogmad – Thank you. We are may be going to Beenleigh tomorrow to have a look. I am seriously considering fostering either at first or after we get a dog. My biggest fear is I will want to keep them all!

Willowlane – Thank you. I have never been good with breeds and I think that is what I am having the most trouble with. Just looking at a photo and reading a general temperament hurts my head!

Scottsmum - QLD

Christina – You sound amazing Christina, If only there were more people like you! Thank you for your advice. :)

Juice - Thank you. I just had a quick look at her page they are all so cute. I'll show my partner tonight. :)

You have all helped so much. I'll let you know how we go and upload a picture. :)

Edited June 30, 2015 by mjn

[juice]

Just remember to take your time and don't rush into the first cute pup you see. ( hard i know!).

Dont kid yourself on what you can offer a breed, if you don't think you are upto lots of exercise be honest, it will only make life hard later, everyone starts off thinking the will walk everday for hours and then a few weeks later reality sets in and you have become too attached to the dog. a good rescue will give you a trial period .

Edited June 30, 2015 by juice

[persephone]

I do hope this time that you take a step back ... research the dog you will adopt, and let your head overrule your heart . Difficult thing to do !! I would also STRONGLY suggest that you consider adopting a dog /pup who has been in foster care :) One who has been fostered will have been monitored and will have a recent history ! Their likes/dislikes/ bad habits will be known- and you can be sure that they are OK indoors, etc .Continue your research ..thump the man of the house and tell him to NOT fall for the first set of big brown eyes and long lashes that blink at him ;) oh - your question - puppies of unknown, BYB breeding may well be 100% wonderful :) They may also have lord knows what problems ..... I wouldn't do it .

[mjn]

Juice – Thank you. We both have very dog oriented families so we are well aware of making the right choice in breed. And I think we are being realistic on what we can offer a dog, I don’t want to get a dog that we can’t look after as it is not fair on either of us. We use to walk our dogs daily (unless it was raining, they refused!) and they were treated very well. However I don’t believe we can look after a kelpie, from what I have read they are extremely high energy!

Persephone – Thanks Persephone, I will definitely be taking a step back. I have been researching every breed which has been sending me a little crazy! We decided not to visit AWL today as they were a lot of kelpie crosses and big dogs and I don’t want us to make a knee jerk decision. Very good suggestion on the fostered dogs, I have noticed they tend to have a blurb about their needs and temperaments while AWL just has basic info. I told the man of the house we will know the perfect dog when we see it and it will be right for both of us and the dog! He was talking about a lab last night (and while my neighbours have two in the same size back yard!) I really think it is cruel to not give big dogs a lot of space.

It might take 6 months but I’m sure we will find a dog we can help or maybe they will find us!

[persephone]

:) LOL @ the change from chiX to lab!! yes-- take your time , enjoy "window shopping" , and reading some of the info from D O L , like this THREAD HERE

[BullBreedBoy]

Firstly I say good on you for looking into this subject, and doing due diligence on finding an ethically sourced puppy. I'd say there is 3 things (beyond obligatory certifications, health, DNA testing) that you should have as non-negotiables when selecting a breeder 1) That you can visit the breeders property, ask questions and meet some of their studs/bitches/puppies. 2)That the breeder is happy to put you in contact with some families of previous litters. 3)That the breeder is genuinely committed to an ongoing relationship and commits to supporting you should you require it.

As for the cross bred issue, my personal opinion on it is that many cross breeds make wonderful companion pets. Some breeders get very emotional about the subject and cast very rapid judgement over those that engage in any kind of so-called designer cross breeding. I always find this a little odd, being that the breeds that we love are effectively all designer cross breeds of the past. For example Bull Terriers were originally a mix of Bulldogs and English Terriers, with the pure white coming from the now extinct white terrier. When you consider this, it seems oddly arrogant to get emotional about ethical owners of modern breeds mixing breeds to form what we commonly refer to as 'designer crosses'!

Many of the recues work very hard to place dog with adopter appropriately, so if your preference if for a cross breed then I strongly advise contacting a few rescues and see what comes up. Most if not all do a trial period, so you are 'de-risked' by this to a certain extent.

Edited July 1, 2015 by BullBreedBoy

[Dame Aussie]

I think that's a great decision, I have had a few cross breeds and they've all been brilliant pets :)

Good luck with your search and let us know how you go :)

[Leah82]

Firstly I say good on you for looking into this subject, and doing due diligence on finding an ethically sourced puppy. I'd say there is 3 things (beyond obligatory certifications, health, DNA testing) that you should have as non-negotiables when selecting a breeder 1) That you can visit the breeders property, ask questions and meet some of their studs/bitches/puppies. 2)That the breeder is happy to put you in contact with some families of previous litters. 3)That the breeder is genuinely committed to an ongoing relationship and commits to supporting you should you require it.

As for the cross bred issue, my personal opinion on it is that many cross breeds make wonderful companion pets. Some breeders get very emotional about the subject and cast very rapid judgement over those that engage in any kind of so-called designer cross breeding. I always find this a little odd, being that the breeds that we love are effectively all designer cross breeds of the past. For example Bull Terriers were originally a mix of Bulldogs and English Terriers, with the pure white coming from the now extinct white terrier. When you consider this, it seems oddly arrogant to get emotional about ethical owners of modern breeds mixing breeds to form what we commonly refer to as 'designer crosses'!

Many of the recues work very hard to place dog with adopter appropriately, so if your preference if for a cross breed then I strongly advise contacting a few rescues and see what comes up. Most if not all do a trial period, so you are 'de-risked' by this to a certain extent.

Going a little off topic here but I guess there's no harm in further educating the OP.

The issue with crossbreeds is primarily a 2 fold issue.

Firstly they are generally bred in varying conditions and health testing is typically non existent, many puppy farm breeders charge way more for a 'designer breed' than a typical purebred breeder for a dog with no guarantee that it won't end up with a genetic disease, hip displasia etc and no idea of what temperament you are getting. Many breeders refer to hybrid vigour but the most common genetic diseases are spread across many breeds so hybrid vigour is not actually a thing.

Secondly a purebred dog is such because they have gone through many generations to create a breed standard and you can guarantee to a certain extent the look, size and temperament of the dog. Most crosses and designer dogs are first generation crosses which means you breed a poodle with a cocker spaniel, the outcome of that first generation breeding is anyone's guess, you could have a dogs that more or less looks like a poodle with a cocker spaniel temperament or vice versa or something in-between. Not to mention using this example there are 3 types of poodles (toy, mini, standard) and 3 types of cocker spaniels (English, America and Working English) so this adds a further element of surprise when you go out and buy a Spoodle puppy, who know's what you're going to get.

No-one is saying cross breeds don't make wonderful companions but if you want to make sure that you limit the unexpected surprises with your new family member either go with purebred dog or fully grown cross breed from a rescue. Obviously there are never any guarantee's in life but do what you can to minimise the risk of a problem down the track.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Leah82