frankiethestaffie Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Hi guys, So my 14 week old SBT is having some inconsistent stools, some are quite hard, whilst others are completely runny. He was on kibble the first week we brought him in, and then slowly incorporated chicken necks and wings into one of his daily meals. After 3 weeks on that, he's now on completely raw (last 2 weeks). When we switched to complete raw, he was only fed chicken marylands, frames and drumstick fillets. When we had him on frames and some fillet, say about 25-30% edible bone and 70-75% meat, his stools would be quite firm but he did seem quite constipated at times. However, when I reduced the bone content to 10% as per the prey model, his stools are almost always completely runny, like mr whippy runny. This would be feeding him 480 grams of meat (drumstick fillet) and 120 grams of edible bone - with a daily intake of 500g. Although I would prefer to split this into 3 meals, we feed him twice a day, he can easily finish it and spends time looking for more to eat. I have attempted to increase the bone content to around 15-25%, but his stools are still quite inconsistent. He could have a firm poo in the morning and then runny at night. Raw feeders, are there any problems you've noticed with what I've said above? Is it still too early for him to be having consistent stools? Or could I have an unrelated problem on my hands. I really want to start incorporating other meats and offal to ensure he gets all his vitamins and minerals, but because of the inconsistent stools I'm hesitant to start introducing new things. I also freeze the chicken for at least 2 weeks, and thaw it before feeding. Not sure if this is neccessary though, if someone could confirm that would be great! Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 What else do you feed him besides meat & bones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yonjuro Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 The only things I can think of off the top of my head is that the overall meal quantity may be too large which can often cause loose stools. When you have more bone this obviously will make it more solid regardless of the quantity. There may be small possibility that the chicken is not 100% agreeable with your dog and you are seeing a minor intolerance to the primary food of chicken. Perhaps try the 10% bone content with a beef or roo meal and see if the stools are still loose. Once you have this under control then add the organs. Best of luck and I hope you can get it under control :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Are you feeding skin on? It's very high fat and can certainly can cause sloppy poos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 (edited) What else do you feed him besides meat & bones Was wondering that myself. But am no expert. 100% meat, skin & bone would never ever work here. We make 25% raw pulped fruit and veg w/chia, coconut oil and VAN health booster. And the rest ground bone & meat. Feeding chunks like on a "Bone Day" we cut off spare fatty skin or any fat globs hanging off carcasses or necks... leave out wings and lamb flaps and always leave out bones with access to fatty white marrow. Fat has to be closely watched here, particularly with the oldies who looove their raw bones. edit: the way I see it is yes; some dogs have zero problems eating a set diet, for example the Prey Model. Or grain free diets etc. In the end though, you have to feed what your dog does best on no matter what your pre-determined plan is. His tummy seems to be trying to tell you something. So in your case it might pay to adventure a little into the BARF diet or even add a little quality dry food back in if he was doing better digestively while eating it. Edited June 27, 2015 by Powerlegs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph M Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Is there anything other than chicken? I know chicken can be quite fatty and if we have a few nights on it our dogs can get the runs from the fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) The only things I can think of off the top of my head is that the overall meal quantity may be too large which can often cause loose stools. When you have more bone this obviously will make it more solid regardless of the quantity. There may be small possibility that the chicken is not 100% agreeable with your dog and you are seeing a minor intolerance to the primary food of chicken. Perhaps try the 10% bone content with a beef or roo meal and see if the stools are still loose. Once you have this under control then add the organs. Best of luck and I hope you can get it under control :) Yonjuro read my mind - it may be an intolerance to chicken. My Sarah's stools were exactly the same - very inconsistent and her full-on but inconsistent diarrhoea was really gross for both of us - other times she seemed to be constipated and struggle to poo. And since I took her off all chicken including the meal in dry food she's been fine. And the problem with dry food is that the vast majority have chicken meal. I've also taken her off all grains - so if she has dry food she has Earthborn Coastal Catch without any chicken or grains and it seems to work. Her raw meals are turkey and rice which seems to help her tummy no end. Hope that helps. Edited June 28, 2015 by westiemum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBreedBoy Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) Hi guys, So my 14 week old SBT is having some inconsistent stools, some are quite hard, whilst others are completely runny. He was on kibble the first week we brought him in, and then slowly incorporated chicken necks and wings into one of his daily meals. After 3 weeks on that, he's now on completely raw (last 2 weeks). When we switched to complete raw, he was only fed chicken marylands, frames and drumstick fillets. When we had him on frames and some fillet, say about 25-30% edible bone and 70-75% meat, his stools would be quite firm but he did seem quite constipated at times. However, when I reduced the bone content to 10% as per the prey model, his stools are almost always completely runny, like mr whippy runny. This would be feeding him 480 grams of meat (drumstick fillet) and 120 grams of edible bone - with a daily intake of 500g. Although I would prefer to split this into 3 meals, we feed him twice a day, he can easily finish it and spends time looking for more to eat. I have attempted to increase the bone content to around 15-25%, but his stools are still quite inconsistent. He could have a firm poo in the morning and then runny at night. Raw feeders, are there any problems you've noticed with what I've said above? Is it still too early for him to be having consistent stools? Or could I have an unrelated problem on my hands. I really want to start incorporating other meats and offal to ensure he gets all his vitamins and minerals, but because of the inconsistent stools I'm hesitant to start introducing new things. I also freeze the chicken for at least 2 weeks, and thaw it before feeding. Not sure if this is neccessary though, if someone could confirm that would be great! Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone Can you please post his entire diet here please, as it's hard to offer advice from what you've posted here. edit: assuming you are feeding more than just meat and bones. Edited June 28, 2015 by BullBreedBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yonjuro Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Hi guys, So my 14 week old SBT is having some inconsistent stools, some are quite hard, whilst others are completely runny. He was on kibble the first week we brought him in, and then slowly incorporated chicken necks and wings into one of his daily meals. After 3 weeks on that, he's now on completely raw (last 2 weeks). When we switched to complete raw, he was only fed chicken marylands, frames and drumstick fillets. When we had him on frames and some fillet, say about 25-30% edible bone and 70-75% meat, his stools would be quite firm but he did seem quite constipated at times. However, when I reduced the bone content to 10% as per the prey model, his stools are almost always completely runny, like mr whippy runny. This would be feeding him 480 grams of meat (drumstick fillet) and 120 grams of edible bone - with a daily intake of 500g. Although I would prefer to split this into 3 meals, we feed him twice a day, he can easily finish it and spends time looking for more to eat. I have attempted to increase the bone content to around 15-25%, but his stools are still quite inconsistent. He could have a firm poo in the morning and then runny at night. Raw feeders, are there any problems you've noticed with what I've said above? Is it still too early for him to be having consistent stools? Or could I have an unrelated problem on my hands. I really want to start incorporating other meats and offal to ensure he gets all his vitamins and minerals, but because of the inconsistent stools I'm hesitant to start introducing new things. I also freeze the chicken for at least 2 weeks, and thaw it before feeding. Not sure if this is neccessary though, if someone could confirm that would be great! Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone Can you please post his entire diet here please, as it's hard to offer advice from what you've posted here. edit: assuming you are feeding more than just meat and bones. It sounds like he/she is feeding prey model raw - it is normal to start on chicken with bones for a week or two before adding organs - this has pretty well been explained in the original post :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 A RAW diet is usually a balance of varied bones/meat - with differing amounts of dairy/egg/veg. Can you tell us more of what he eats, including treats ? It is important to balance things out in any homemade diets , which is why feeding a commercial food is often an easier way to make sure growing puppies get all they need to start life healthily ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankiethestaffie Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 Hi guys thanks for the replies. Yes, I'm currently feeding based on the prey model. Down the track I will start to incorporate other things in his meal plan, but I wanted to start off with just meat and bone for a week or two as this has been what's recommended. Just worried about including too many things at once as I've heard this can cause some upset stomachs. The only treats he has is beef liver treats. I remove all the skin and most of the fat before I freeze the chicken. I think I'll move onto beef or roo and see how he responds to that. I really want to incorporate offal and supps in his diet but because his stools aren't consistent yet I'm a bit hesitant to start adding things into his plan. Hopefully a change of protein source and maybe reducing meal sizes will help. Thanks for the tips! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yonjuro Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Hi guys thanks for the replies. Yes, I'm currently feeding based on the prey model. Down the track I will start to incorporate other things in his meal plan, but I wanted to start off with just meat and bone for a week or two as this has been what's recommended. Just worried about including too many things at once as I've heard this can cause some upset stomachs. The only treats he has is beef liver treats. I remove all the skin and most of the fat before I freeze the chicken. I think I'll move onto beef or roo and see how he responds to that. I really want to incorporate offal and supps in his diet but because his stools aren't consistent yet I'm a bit hesitant to start adding things into his plan. Hopefully a change of protein source and maybe reducing meal sizes will help. Thanks for the tips! Yeah, give it another week, but if things don't improve pretty soon, you may need to supplement the diet or re-think what is going to work best for your pup. I am also a prey model feeder, so it is a diet I believe in and it obviously agrees with my dog - but it may not suitable for your pup right now. You can always try again once he starts to mature a little more :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yonjuro Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Actually while I think of it... have you had the pup vet checked to rule out any medical issues that could be causing the loose stools rather than the new diet? Odds are that it is the diet, but it might be worth ruling out other problems :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaCharlie Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) I've raised a few puppies on a prey model diet and never experienced inconsistent stools. I'd be changing the meat source and going from there. I was never one for easing into things, my pups went onto red meat right from the start. While I no longer feed a prey model diet (would love to as my dogs thrived on it, but it is just not feasible cost-wise with 13 dogs) I still feed a raw diet. Our 17week old pyrenean shepherd has lamb brisket, chicken frames, roo meat and fish carcasses. Once he has a full set of adult teeth he will have roo tails and turkey wings too. Roo will remain his primary meat source though when not served on a bone. Edited June 28, 2015 by DeltaCharlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 beef liver treats ? Hmmmm Liver can be a laxative .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliwake Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I too think it would be worth getting a stool sample checked at your vet. By that age my pup had had coccidia and giardia, both of which caused loose stools. It would be good to be able to rule some things out, even though diet is the most likely cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Hi guys thanks for the replies. Yes, I'm currently feeding based on the prey model. Down the track I will start to incorporate other things in his meal plan, but I wanted to start off with just meat and bone for a week or two as this has been what's recommended. Just worried about including too many things at once as I've heard this can cause some upset stomachs. The only treats he has is beef liver treats. I remove all the skin and most of the fat before I freeze the chicken. I think I'll move onto beef or roo and see how he responds to that. I really want to incorporate offal and supps in his diet but because his stools aren't consistent yet I'm a bit hesitant to start adding things into his plan. Hopefully a change of protein source and maybe reducing meal sizes will help. Thanks for the tips! Beef Liver Treats used to give my BC girl instant scoots when she was that age Even just a small amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBreedBoy Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 It sounds like he/she is feeding prey model raw - it is normal to start on chicken with bones for a week or two before adding organs - this has pretty well been explained in the original post :) If you say so. I read the first post like he was feeding some kind of bespoke raw mix, but taking the bone ratio from the prey model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBreedBoy Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 The only treats he has is beef liver treats. Interesting, I've found that liver (lamb and beef) trats can upset my bully puppies digestion. We've had both vomitting and soft/sloppy stools from them in the past. FWIW I concur with the others re the vet check, if this hasn't already been done. Assuming that show's up no issues, can I suggest rolling him over to barf patties (No lamb) unil it settles then gradually roll him back to the prey model? Just out of interest, is there any skin issues presenting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankiethestaffie Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) hi guys, appreciate the time taken out to provide some insight into what might be causing this! @BullBreedBoy - he's being fed based on the prey model, and it's recommended to start with one protein source with meat and bone only for a couple weeks. When consistent stools form you can start including other protein sources, then offal etc. As it's been a couple of weeks and his stools haven't been consistent, I thought I'd seek some advice! Yep, no skin issues presenting, he does get the occassional red stomach when playing on the grass for too long. But this has reduced a lot compared to the first time. Guys, I decided to firstly cut out the liver treats as you've advised it could be the problem, hoping that this is the cause as it's an easy fix. He hasn't had the liver treats since Saturday. His stool on Sunday night, Monday morning and Monday night were perfectly formed and very minimal. I hope that cutting the liver treats out has alleviated the problem, honestly didn't think a few treats could have possibly caused this. I will keep him off the liver treats for a few days and see if his stools remain the same. Again, appreciate all the help guys! Edited June 30, 2015 by frankiethestaffie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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