Ankc Rule Changes For Agility

[Kavik]

I just checked the catalogue for tomorrow's trial

Masters Jumping has:

200 x 7

300 x 30

400 x 17

500 x 68

600 x 19

So somehow there must be a way to even out those numbers!

[pie]

I have enough fast working breeds to compete against in 400 thanks, don't open the floodgates Stay in 500 :p

And no my Manchester wouldn't go down into 300 if the height cutoff was changed to 400 and above, because she is 405 so she'd be the smallest dog in the class I dare say :laugh:

[LisaCC]

It is the 200 height group that needs fixing with the numbers IMO, so very few in there. Numbers in 300 and 600 are growing. But yes there are so many more in 500 than anywhere else. We are thinking of writing a proposal for the next rule change - if you have any ideas on how to split them up to make them more even (height cutoffs etc) feel free to say so :)

There was only one 200 dog in my clubs little country trial earlier this year

[aussielover]

Overseas, most 500 border collies would jump 650 or higher.

I'm kind of glad that they don't in australia as there is no way any of the non typical large breeds like my lab would ever place!

[Kavik]

In ADAA the large dogs jump 650, and the cutoff is 500mm. Not that I am proposing that :laugh:

[Agility Dogs]

Overseas, most 500 border collies would jump 650 or higher.

I'm kind of glad that they don't in australia as there is no way any of the non typical large breeds like my lab would ever place!

As we get more and more working style BC's coming into the country you'll see more of them running in the 600 height class.

In the US for example dogs have to be over 21 inches (53.34cm) to jump 650. Between that and 44.45cm they jump at 550mm. They also have a 'performance program' (like ADAA's regular program) for dogs that for whatever reason are not up to their 'full' jump height.

Championship Program

dogs measuring 12" (30.48cm) or less must jump at least 12" (30.48cm)

dogs measuring 14" (35.56cm) or less jump at least 14" (35.56cm)

dogs measuring 16" (40.64cm) or less jump at least 16" (40.64cm)

dogs measuring 17.5" (44.45cm) or less jump at least 18" (45.72cm)

dogs measuring 21" (53.34cm) or less jump at least 22" (55.88cm)

dogs measuring over 21" (53.34cm) must jump at least 26" (66.04cm)

Performance Program

dogs measuring 12" (30.48cm) or less must jump at least 8" (20.32cm)

dogs measuring 16" (40.64 cm) or less jump at least 12" (30.48cm)

dogs measuring 21" (53.34cm) or less jump at least 16" (40.64cm)

dogs measuring over 21" (53.34cm) must jump at least 20" (50.80cm)

I also reckon that while they aren't typical for a reason (not bagging the dogs, just saying that Group 5 have a structure that lends itself more to agility) we don't tend to train a lot of our large or small dogs like they do over seas. Lynda frequently placed with Spirit for example.

[J...]

Would have preferred to see the addition of a 'starters' type class in Novice rather than extra passes - agree with you Jess about wanting to get the hell out of Novice especially with all the judges here who have little concept of safety and have never run fast dogs.

I like the idea of a starters class, or even just a higher level of NFC availability would do the trick too. Now JDO has no weaves, I guess you can spend some time in there too given they are more of an JDX level course, you can just step over the exclusion line :)

I agree with KC that Novice wasn't "easy" for me as a relatively experienced handler these days. I spent a lot of time teaching my young speedy boy to listen and read my body language, not blast over every jump he can see in his way - on course or off course. I also didn't have access to suitable course work, so while I taught him to drive lines when asked - the whole concept of that on a course with 5 full distance jumps as a finish line was still difficult given my training circumstances and the fact that I'm not Usain Bolt :laugh: So while he had JDM level skills before I even entered him in his first trial, JD was beyond us for quite a while. Often I had heaps of one fault runs with him turning in at me just before the final jump because I was 4 jumps behind him.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Jess.

[The Spotted Devil]

Competitiveness across states, city vs country etc happens in plenty of sports and I think it's a tough thing to manage. It would be an incredible feat to get Em's retrieving champion title in Vic as the standard is probably some of the best in the country - up against field bred Labs/ Goldens and you need to win the whole class - but that doesn't stop me trying!

[kelpiechick]

I just checked the catalogue for tomorrow's trial

Masters Jumping has:

200 x 7

300 x 30

400 x 17

500 x 68

600 x 19

So somehow there must be a way to even out those numbers!

Those numbers are quite 'even' compared to Vic. If you add your 'other' heights together they outnumber (just) your 500 dogs. When we have split walk these days to get it close to even you have all the other heights plus a third of the 500 and then the other 2/3 of the 500 and it's about equal. Quite common in MJ here to have 1x200 dog and 3x300 at the usual 'run of the mill' trials

[aussielover]

Nice golden retriever!

There will be some fast working line labs coming into the australian agility scene in the next few years. Will be interesting to see how they go.

There's no doubt border collies and kelpies are ideally athletically and mentally suited to agility, and that's the reason why they often win and dominate the sport. This is not said to offend other breeds, it's just fact.

[Agility Dogs]

Nice golden retriever!

There will be some fast working line labs coming into the australian agility scene in the next few years. Will be interesting to see how they go.

There's no doubt border collies and kelpies are ideally athletically and mentally suited to agility, and that's the reason why they often win and dominate the sport. This is not said to offend other breeds, it's just fact.

Absolutely. But I think a lot of people sell their dogs short before they start.

Can't wait to see the working lines coming in. That will be soooooo cool. I grew up with borders and wanted on before I even knew what agility was, but nothing makes me smile more than a non-traditional agility dog blasting around a course. :)

[The Spotted Devil]

I get such a thrill running my Dally and I know plenty of people enjoy watching him run. We even show up the BCs sometimes - pretty fun to do in a very competitive state!

I enjoy watching the BCs run and I have a few favourites in Vic but they're just not the dog I want to live with.

Edited July 12, 2015 by The Spotted Devil

[RiverStar-Aura]

It is the 200 height group that needs fixing with the numbers IMO, so very few in there. Numbers in 300 and 600 are growing. But yes there are so many more in 500 than anywhere else. We are thinking of writing a proposal for the next rule change - if you have any ideas on how to split them up to make them more even (height cutoffs etc) feel free to say so :)

I run a small terrier but because she's measured at 275mm, she's above the cutoff for 200 height (270mm). Funnily enough she's measured at 270mm in ADAA! Ss it is, she gets to run with shelties and I don't mind too much because 200 is such an insulting height. Kirah likes to think she can jump 600.

I do agree with the sheer volume of 500 dogs though. I have a friend who runs a gorgeous English Springer at 500 and there's just no way he can match the speed of the kelpies or border collies. My Zeus is fine at 500 as he's quite lithe and speedy -- if only I can teach him to stop running off at the start!

I'm not actually sure how you'd go about spreading out the 500 height. The only thing I could suggest is perhaps change the heights by 30mm for example:

200: Up to and including 300mm (up from 270mm)

300: 301mm up to and including 395mm (up from 365mm)

400: 396mm up to and including 485mm (up from 455mm)

500: 486mm up to and including 575mm (up from 545mm)

600: 576mm and over

I don't know. It's not really an easy one. My only other option would be to have the 400 height fit all dogs up to and including 400mm to see if that helps spread the dogs out.

Or just ban BCs and kelpies from entering! ;)

[Kavik]

I would think raising the height for 400 dogs, and lowering the height for 600 dogs would help to even them out, and maybe raise the height for 200?

So even 10mm might do it (lots of dogs probably around the cutoff height)

400: 366 - 465

500: 466 - 535

600: 536 +

Obviously I have no problem with BCs and Kelpies since I own Kelpies :laugh: and if you are the best you deserve to win (and if you are good enough to win often, then good on you!) but I think it would be more fair if the numbers in the classes were more even.

The UK does have their ABC class (anything but collie) because the BCs do dominate so much over there, but I am not sure we are quite up to that yet. Kelpies do quite well in the ABC classes :D

Edited July 17, 2015 by Kavik

[J...]

I don't think there is a solution that will not cause massive outcry somewhere along the way. You only need to look at the kerfuffle over this rules review and there hasn't been that much change for such a time-consuming and controversial process.

You have some people who would quite happily jump their dogs up a height - and others who'd probably retire their dog. I run two 500 dogs and I don't see the size of the 500 class an issue, and if you win or even place in that class with 50+ other 500 dogs then you've well and truly earned it.

There is challenges in running all dogs - whether they be working breeds or non-working, 200 or 600. I guess until people have walked a mile in everyone else's shoes, they don't necessarily see the challenges.

[OSoSwift]

I compete agianst BC's and other working breeds. Sometimes I get passes, sometimes they do - generally them :) - but I am happy to compete as I do. MAny times I see ultra fast dogs pull rails or make mistakes so it evens out. If you want to miss a height range, get a dog in a different one. I have a 400 and two 500 dogs.

[RiverStar-Aura]

I generally don't mind because Zeus, my 500 dog, is still in Novice and nowhere near close to winning/ qualifying; I'm still working on him not runing off to sniff things when I say go. :laugh:

I agree with you OSo because a lot of the BCs I watch compete in 500 tend to knock bars or get so super excited they start circling and barking at their handlers -- their brains have pretty much leaked out their ears by this point. I'm happy just plodding along at mine and my dogs' pace -- not doing agility to win. That I'm saving for my next dog!! *wink*

Edited July 19, 2015 by RiverStar-Aura

[aussielover]

There is challenges in running all dogs - whether they be working breeds or non-working, 200 or 600. I guess until people have walked a mile in everyone else's shoes, they don't necessarily see the challenges.

Totally agree with this statement!

I find it annoying when people say stuff like "it's so much easier for you because you have a slow/fast/small/large dog". It's better to focus on your own performance than to worry about how supposedly easy it is for other people.

It's hard for everyone just in different ways.

[sheena]

Half the fun with training is how to train the dog you do have, not the dog you wish you had ...does that make sense ?? My BC girl is consistantly a fraction of a second over time in Masters Jumping, so I just have to find a way of training her to go faster :laugh: but occasionally she comes good & knocks out all the other fast BC's & kelpies in the Open Agility because she never drops a bar. At least when she does win a place in the 500's it is really something special :)

[The Spotted Devil]

There is challenges in running all dogs - whether they be working breeds or non-working, 200 or 600. I guess until people have walked a mile in everyone else's shoes, they don't necessarily see the challenges.

Totally agree with this statement!

I find it annoying when people say stuff like "it's so much easier for you because you have a slow/fast/small/large dog". It's better to focus on your own performance than to worry about how supposedly easy it is for other people.

It's hard for everyone just in different ways.

Yes!!!!