Should People Have Dogs?

[Sheridan]

I've been thinking about this since I got my puppies. Puppies have a critical socialisation period to get used to people, situations, and dogs, etc. What happens if, like me, you don't have people with safe, vaccinated dogs to socialise with? Or don't know people with children? Or don't know old people? What do you do? Should you simply not get puppies?

[BarbedWire]

Yes people should have dogs. Life without them would be unbearable. I do understand what you are saying though. One of my dogs has had very little to do with children and I don't trust her with them because I don't know what she would do. (She is 8 years old). I guess the obvious answer is to expand your friendship group, but I know that is easier said than done. Good luck! They sound like gorgeous puppies.

[Kavik]

There are lots of places you can go to help with socialisation. Markets, parks with sports fields, shops, train stations, dog training classes etc.

[Starkehre]

It's a good point Sheridan and one I often wonder about.

I think perhaps owners in situations like yours could consider purchasing their puppy from a breeder that holds onto the puppies until the super crucial period closes at around 12 weeks.

BUT, and the hugest criteria here is, provided said breeder has a good understanding of what they are doing with their puppies regarding socialisation. They should be providing their puppies with a protocol which offers problem solving, emotional resiliency, startle responses, meeting strange dogs of different breeds/sizes/coat types and colors, meeting children and so on.

Breeders that do this are not necessarily an easy thing to find.

I will be following the Puppy Culture protocols with my upcoming litter. I am really looking forward to applying this enrichment affect system.

I won't be keeping the puppies until 12 weeks of age, however will be training the puppy people on what things to carry on with so as the get the very best puppy possible.

All that said, meeting strange dogs is only one component of a puppy being well socialised. Introducing puppies to new sounds, different textures surfaces, unusual or different looking people, cars, birds, trains, crowds etc can be done by anyone.

Perhaps Sheridan if you are looking for safe neutral dogs to expose your puppies to you could post a shout out here on DOL. If I can't find as many as I would like, I will probably be doing just that :)

Edited June 21, 2015 by Starkehre

[tdierikx]

Sometimes I think we may also be over-thinking how we raise our dogs... at the end of the day, they are still dogs, not mini-me human clones...

Not all dogs are going to want to be 100% human/dog/cat/pocket-pet/cattle friendly - just like not all humans brought up together will be the same temperamentally.

This constant worrying about "am I doing this puppy raising correctly" may do more harm than good if we push too hard to mould a dog into something it just will never be.

T.

[LisaCC]

Your puppies can go out before they get all their vaccinations, just be smart about it.

Taking them down the street is the best way to meet all those various humans on your list and more!

I'm a single uni student, I didn't know any one with small children or elderly people in this town. So from the day I got him Nova was a cafe dog and met and saw every kind of person, including people in wheelchairs, on bikes, with beards, even hoards of school children walking past.

I also took him to uni with me some days, which is an interesting environment. Theres an "urban" side and an agricultural side so he got to see some large animals and sniff their poops.

I only knew very few friendly safe "boring" dogs who wouldn't over stimulate Nova as a pup, and I didn't particularly want him playing with strange dogs for socialising, so again walking (or rather me holding him when he was very very young) and him seeing dogs, then started going to beginners obedience class and training around other dogs. They don't need to play with every dog to be socialised.

Did all that work? Well he's pretty darn bullet proof and I can take him in to any situation confidently, even if we come across something he hasn't seen. But he's still overly friendly with dogs, but I'd rather work through that issue than have him reactive.

Edited June 22, 2015 by LisaCC

[Sheridan]

Yes people should have dogs. Life without them would be unbearable. I do understand what you are saying though. One of my dogs has had very little to do with children and I don't trust her with them because I don't know what she would do. (She is 8 years old). I guess the obvious answer is to expand your friendship group, but I know that is easier said than done. Good luck! They sound like gorgeous puppies.

Well, what I've determined out of this is that I don't have friends, I have people on FB and people I work with.

[BarbedWire]

Yes people should have dogs. Life without them would be unbearable. I do understand what you are saying though. One of my dogs has had very little to do with children and I don't trust her with them because I don't know what she would do. (She is 8 years old). I guess the obvious answer is to expand your friendship group, but I know that is easier said than done. Good luck! They sound like gorgeous puppies.

Well, what I've determined out of this is that I don't have friends, I have people on FB and people I work with.

Sorry I should not have replied. I suspected this might be your response and it is not what I intended at all. I say 'expand your friendship group' which means including different types of friends - for example friends with young children.

I will bow out of this thread and I am sorry I seem to have upset you.

[aussielover]

I feel a lot has to do with genes and inherent temperament. Rescues often say it's all about how you raise them but I've not found that to be true in many cases. I've met dogs with beautiful temperaments that have been abused or not well

socialised and I've also seen dogs given every opportunity and the owners are very dedicated yet the dog has a poor temperament despite this.

[Rebanne]

Sometimes I think we may also be over-thinking how we raise our dogs... at the end of the day, they are still dogs, not mini-me human clones...

Not all dogs are going to want to be 100% human/dog/cat/pocket-pet/cattle friendly - just like not all humans brought up together will be the same temperamentally.

This constant worrying about "am I doing this puppy raising correctly" may do more harm than good if we push too hard to mould a dog into something it just will never be.

T.

OMG I could not agree more. I live a quiet life and my dogs are fine to take out and about. While they have all been shown from a young age making friends with strange dogs was not ever one of my goals

[Loving my Oldies]

Sometimes I think we may also be over-thinking how we raise our dogs... at the end of the day, they are still dogs, not mini-me human clones...

Not all dogs are going to want to be 100% human/dog/cat/pocket-pet/cattle friendly - just like not all humans brought up together will be the same temperamentally.

This constant worrying about "am I doing this puppy raising correctly" may do more harm than good if we push too hard to mould a dog into something it just will never be.

T.

Could not agree more.

But that is the case with everything today. Everything is examined to the nth degree; experts on everything; everything turned into drama; if you don't do is THIS way you are doing it the WRONG way. Drama drama drama drama. Sick of it. :laugh:

[raineth]

Going off my own personal experience, I would say with some dogs you really do need to be careful with your socialization. You could take two pups and give them the same socialization experiences and for one it turns out to be a disaster, and the other it works out really well.

I also think that if you have a breed with guarding heritage, socializing them to people coming to your home, not just going out and about is pretty important.

But yeah, as LisaCC said, taking them out and about is a really useful way to get them to meet a range of people. If you are really struggling to find kids, go for a walk near a school just after 3 in the afternoon. Guaranteed to find kids that way.

[Salukifan]

Everytime I read about someone's exhausting puppy socialisation schedule, I'm reminded of the flash card parents from the movie Parenthood.

Learn what you can, do what you can. Obviously for some pups NO socialisation isn't going to be great. For other pups with roles or jobs to do, socialisation increases in importance. But just making them part of your normal life in and outside your home is enough for most.

They're not made of glass.

A decently run baby puppy class and a good well organised training club or training classes will help.

Most of us can manage that.

[huski]

It is really important to remember socialisation isn't just about exposure, but teaching the dog how to respond to new environments and distractions.

One of my favourite places to socialise pups and train dogs under distraction is the local shopping centre. Head down at a busy time (like Thursday night shopping) and train outside the entrance where people of all ages, shapes and sizes come and go.

Another place I frequent a lot with pups is the train station.

Edited June 22, 2015 by huski

[Sheridan]

Yes people should have dogs. Life without them would be unbearable. I do understand what you are saying though. One of my dogs has had very little to do with children and I don't trust her with them because I don't know what she would do. (She is 8 years old). I guess the obvious answer is to expand your friendship group, but I know that is easier said than done. Good luck! They sound like gorgeous puppies.

Well, what I've determined out of this is that I don't have friends, I have people on FB and people I work with.

Sorry I should not have replied. I suspected this might be your response and it is not what I intended at all. I say 'expand your friendship group' which means including different types of friends - for example friends with young children.

I will bow out of this thread and I am sorry I seem to have upset you.

Oh, I was already upset, basically at the lack of assistance of people who profess to be friends.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Sheridan

[OSoSwift]

For me personally I just want to get them out and about, not playing with otehr dogs/small children etc. Just seeing them and not caring. With mine I will drive say to the middle of town and carry them aroudn giving them the odd treat, but not putting them down. These days most vets use a vacc at 10 weeks that gives them immunity by 11 weeks so I would be doing that and then putting them down and getting them out.

As you have two, crate in the car while it's cool and then wander around with one then the other. If you wish to have people talk to them/pat them then great most will happily oblidge. Take some super yummy treats and they can give them the odd one of those as well.

I prefer to neutralise them to the environment and get them to the point odd things happen aorund them but they don't care or if they do they look to me and I become the vending machine of all things good.

I don't want you to be upset so

[Tassie]

I guess one of the considerations for you Sheridan, is needing to get them out and about separately as well as together, so that they can see a lot of what the world offers, as has been suggested, hanging out in places where there are lots of comings and goings. Large hardware stores like Bunnings have lots of stuff happening, and cute puppies will always attract people, so that they have the chance to have nice, managed introductions.

I think it's important to take each one out separately, at least part of the time, so that they don't become too dependent on each other, and so that you can see and manage what's going on more easily. Weird things will worry them. Sitting at a sidewalk café one day with a couple of friends and their dog, my older dog, and the baby boy. All was going really well .. lots of chat and meeting with café staff and other patrons ... until the bus came and pulled up with noisy brakes pretty much outside. Poor Rory thought it was a fire breathing dragon I think, but I just walked him up and down to have a look at it, and it hasn't been an issue since.

[Loving my Oldies]

I feel a lot has to do with genes and inherent temperament. Rescues often say it's all about how you raise them but I've not found that to be true in many cases. I've met dogs with beautiful temperaments that have been abused or not well

socialised and I've also seen dogs given every opportunity and the owners are very dedicated yet the dog has a poor temperament despite this.

Exactly. Same as people: millions of children who have horrendous childhoods don't grow into abusers and murderers. Some people who have had childhoods that are fine turn into abusers and murders.

That of course doesn't mean we sit back and do nothing, but as Haredown said: " ...... just making them part of your normal life in and outside your home is enough for most."

[The Spotted Devil]

It's never exclusively genetics or environment. Always both. We have enough scientific evidence showing what happens when you don't handle puppies between 3 and 16 weeks.

I just popped my baby puppy in her crate, put her crate in the car and went to buy chook food. People who sold me the chook food patted her and had a cuddle. Popped by the post office, vet and Physio on the way home. Met a minimum of 10 people, watched a whole lot more walk by and saw a whole lot of new stuff - walking sticks, tradesmen, bike, motor bike, cars. That's how I do it as everyone I know is as busy as I am!

Edited June 22, 2015 by The Spotted Devil

[sunny1shine]

I also like to hang around out the front of supermarkets / shopping centres (put down a towel/blanket if not fully immunised). some days you wont get a look at, other days you'll get people who come up. I take some treats and if kids ask permission from their parents and me to pat, I'll ask the kids to hold their hand out and if the pup sits nicely let the pup take the food (training children to interact appropriately and the pup at the same time)

even if no one pats the pup, I still give lots of treats when shopping trolleys are seen / weird things happen / pup sitting nicely / pup looking at me. socialisation doesn't need to be pats / cuddles, it can be as simple as being in the same environment as lots of people / noises / moving things.