Better Late Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) I considered putting this in the training forum but this one seems to get more coverage, and yes I have already searched the forum for threads on heeling, I just enjoy having active conversations with people ;) So as my girl is dog reactive we do all of our training at home on our own as opposed to in a class. We've got a couple of days in September with K9Pro to work on her issues as well as learning about training in drive, but until then its just me and the dog. As she's my first dog I'm really just discovering what I'm interested in and right now its turning out to be obedience funnily enough, and in the last few days we've started shaping the formal heel position with me luring her into position while I'm standing near a wall. This is her second session and she's already sitting in line with me 90% of the time which I'm happy with. The question is where do I go from here, take a few short steps and reward her in position while she's by my side, or take a few short steps, ask for a sit and reward her then? How did you do it and what advice can you give a total novice! Edited June 19, 2015 by Better Late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 The Fenzi dog sports academy offer excellent online courses which include heelwork http://www.fenzidogsportsacademy.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 perchwork is one option :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I got my best heelwork using Susan Garrett's "re-inforcement zone" (aka RZ) method. There's a bit of it on youtube. Some things that help you get the dog in position include a good nose touch to your hand - and then you can use that to get your dog into position by touch there and then touch here... You may also want a good release / go cue but "heel" will do I guess... You get a good release cue using her "crate games" ie Dog has to sit when you put your hand on the crate, if the dog tries to leave the crate with out permission (ie stands up) - you shut the door. So RZ - start with dog in a sit, then put yourself in the heel position you want the dog to be... and say "yes" and hand over a treat... repeat maybe 5 times... count to three between each repeat. Then take one step forward, say "Go" (that's my release cue, but with my dog it's optional)... and stop... dog should move up next to you to get the treats... initially hand over treats if the dog comes up next to you but gradually increase the criteria to butt must not swing out... So I can step forwards, or sideways, or backwards or turn small circles either direction (oops dizzy now)... And my dog will move to stay in the "RZ". If I step sideways into the dog - it helps if I put my hand out for nose target and say out as I step or she gets a bit confused. I could improve that I guess but haven't bothered so far. Nose targeting looks a lot like the stay/wait and the stand command... it's handy to train the stand command. I originally tried the yank and crank method but this did not stop her from swinging her butt out, and did not help her if we were going backwards (rally) or wanted to work the right side (agility) instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) How exciting, I love training heel work! I would start by watching heaps of videos of heel work and choosing some that inspire and show you a heel style/type you like and would like to train to your dog. I would then train rear end awareness and positions, there's some of foundation work we can cover in your lessons but what really helps is knowing what you want and how you want it to look. Edited June 20, 2015 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Late Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) I would start by watching heaps of videos of heel work and choosing some that inspire and show you a heel style/type you like and would like to train to your dog. Umm lets see, you and Wiz, Henna & Jaimie, Reegan & Dusty, Nic & Flick :laugh: I'm actually loving it which is surprising, because I watched a Crufts obedience video and was put off by the stiffness of it all! But the idea of training it in drive really appealed to me and it just seems like so much fun! I do want to get her started on rear end awareness though, I'll watch some more videos of that too and find a suitable something or other to train it on :) Edited June 20, 2015 by Better Late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Late Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 perchwork is one option :) Wiggly butt Beagles! This reminded me I want to start work on her rear end awareness :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Late Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 I got my best heelwork using Susan Garrett's "re-inforcement zone" (aka RZ) method. There's a bit of it on youtube. Some things that help you get the dog in position include a good nose touch to your hand - and then you can use that to get your dog into position by touch there and then touch here... You may also want a good release / go cue but "heel" will do I guess... You get a good release cue using her "crate games" ie Dog has to sit when you put your hand on the crate, if the dog tries to leave the crate with out permission (ie stands up) - you shut the door. So RZ - start with dog in a sit, then put yourself in the heel position you want the dog to be... and say "yes" and hand over a treat... repeat maybe 5 times... count to three between each repeat. Then take one step forward, say "Go" (that's my release cue, but with my dog it's optional)... and stop... dog should move up next to you to get the treats... initially hand over treats if the dog comes up next to you but gradually increase the criteria to butt must not swing out... So I can step forwards, or sideways, or backwards or turn small circles either direction (oops dizzy now)... And my dog will move to stay in the "RZ". If I step sideways into the dog - it helps if I put my hand out for nose target and say out as I step or she gets a bit confused. I could improve that I guess but haven't bothered so far. Nose targeting looks a lot like the stay/wait and the stand command... it's handy to train the stand command. I originally tried the yank and crank method but this did not stop her from swinging her butt out, and did not help her if we were going backwards (rally) or wanted to work the right side (agility) instead. I'll definitely check that out, we loved working on crate games! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) I would start by watching heaps of videos of heel work and choosing some that inspire and show you a heel style/type you like and would like to train to your dog. Umm lets see, you and Wiz, Henna & Jaimie, Reegan & Dusty, Nic & Flick :laugh: I'm actually loving it which is surprising, because I watched a Crufts obedience video and was put off by the stiffness of it all! But the idea of training it in drive really appealed to me and it just seems like so much fun! I do want to get her started on rear end awareness though, I'll watch some more videos of that too and find a suitable something or other to train it on :) The UK style heeling you will see in Crufts is quite different to, say, IPO/Schutzhund style heel work. It is different again to what you would see here in the ANKC obedience ring. A lot of Australian judges would heavily ping competitors here for doing UK style heel work under the rule that it impedes handler movement when the dog is touching you. I really love training obed, I find it heaps of fun Edited June 22, 2015 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Better Late Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 The UK style heeling you will see in Crufts is quite different to, say, IPO/Schutzhund style heel work. It is different again to what you would see here in the ANKC obedience ring. A lot of Australian judges would heavily ping competitors here for doing UK style heel work under the rule that it impedes handler movement when the dog is touching you. Would you get pinged for using IPO/Sch style heelwork in ANKC obed? Schutzhund is sadly a no no in Vic but I really do love that style of heeling, the dogs just seem to prance with so much energy and fluidity. Maybe I should just move to NSW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) I don't know what obedience judges do where you are. I think judges in SA are starting to look more favourably at dogs that look like they're enjoying themselves (that high stepping tail wagging enthusiasm) but maybe not so much the dogs that heel with their nose across the handler's left leg even if the butt is in the right place and not fond of the nose pointing to the sky like a lot of IPO. Dogs with "tight" heelwork tend to score better ie the ones that move with their handler and they're not lagging or late with transitions or forging ahead. I talked to a dog body conditioning dog physio lady about that and she said the nose to sky thing can cause problems in some dogs' necks and backs if they're not introduced to it gradually to build up strength in muscles and tendons. Personally I like a dog to look where it's going - but that's an agility thing. A subtle thing I haven't got quite right yet - I'd like my dog to be looking (or listening) for the next cue, not the next treat/reward. Oops. But she does seem to like the game of find and stay in the RZ a lot... Ie one of our games is can I get her out of position... Edited June 22, 2015 by Mrs Rusty Bucket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaCC Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 The UK style heeling you will see in Crufts is quite different to, say, IPO/Schutzhund style heel work. It is different again to what you would see here in the ANKC obedience ring. A lot of Australian judges would heavily ping competitors here for doing UK style heel work under the rule that it impedes handler movement when the dog is touching you. Would you get pinged for using IPO/Sch style heelwork in ANKC obed? Schutzhund is sadly a no no in Vic but I really do love that style of heeling, the dogs just seem to prance with so much energy and fluidity. Maybe I should just move to NSW. I just did a heeling workshop with a few ANKC obedience judges, and they said if you stick to one heeling style and stick to it throughout the entire trial it's fine. They did mention the UK style and their biggest issue with it was that apparently you get a lot of back ends swinging out, but if you can control that issue again it's your choice. I guess it always depends on the judge though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) It definitely depends on the judge. Even with IPO/Sch there are different heeling styles, some handlers train more heavily stylized work than others. Even when I competed with my beagle I had some judges say she was "almost too close". The more old school judges IME are more likely to ping "up" heel work as crowding or impeding handler movement. But it does depend on the judge and their interpretation of the rules. ETA: as Lisa mentioned in the post above consistency is really important. If the dog doesn't consistently hold position they can lose points for moving out of heel position. The "tighter" the heel work the more obvious it becomes if the dog moves out of position. Edited June 22, 2015 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 If the dog doesn't consistently hold position they can lose points for moving out of heel position. The "tighter" the heel work the more obvious it becomes if the dog moves out of position. This explains some very strange judging I saw... where dogs who were all over the place as far as heel goes - scored better for their heelwork - than one dog who was very tight most of the time with a few very short lapses. It was like the competitors were being compared to their own performance and not between competitors against a set standard. I thought that was very strange. But it was a new judge. My mental note was never to enter one of theirs. Not that I've entered any obedience comps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpette Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) These are no where near as good as huski and Wisdom, but they show the importance of focus (Zeph watches my right hand not my left, so he is too far forward when heeling) and pace, Dee and Zeph are more focussed when I walk faster (if you slow down the dog looses focus and sniffs the ground). Also if they are too far forward or too wide, reposition them and then reward the correct position, and move on. Oh and the rear end awareness is a work in progress. After the videos we had a series of light bulb moments with Zeph. No video of it this time though They are happy and enthusiastic, precision is lacking, and yeah my hand signals need work Dee doing rally o http://vid260.photobucket.com/albums/ii14/grumpette_bucket/VID-20150622-WA0002_zpsuj20f3iv.mp4 Zeph doing rally o http://vid260.photobucket.com/albums/ii14/grumpette_bucket/VID-20150622-WA0001_zpshzayd9hj.mp4 Edited June 23, 2015 by grumpette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Thank you for posting Grumpette I think they look like they're enjoying themselves and that's the most important thing. Love the camera operator too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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