Agression Issues.

[rajacadoo]

Just hoping for some advice on a problem we are having with our boy.

Background:

Saba is an 8 year old castrated Basenji. We have had him since 8 weeks, socialised a lot etc. He was our first Basenji, bought as a show dog. All was well till about 6-8 months, when he started growling at judges, while he was on the table. Eventually he was retired,, after trying all help and info that we got, including a behaviourist. None of his siblings of either sex, have any issues with agression at all. Breeder has been incredibly fantastic over this time, and I know we are the problem with him, we have done something wrong to cause this ... I have actually purchased 2 more bitches, both related to Saba, from the same breeder, that's how much I belive that we ruined him somehow, not that he is/was genetically temperamentally stuffed...

He is now very human aggressive, (we have really failed him in so many ways, it really upsets me), growls at us daily, has bitten all 4 of us over the years. He is my heart dog, I just adore this boy. He was the pack leader of the Basenji's, till my oldest girl flattened him one day, and he relinquished 'top dog position' to her.

Problem:

We live in Tassie, and it's cold down here. He has always hated his feet and legs being touched, (I really don't know why this is, he was thoroughly handled as a baby). Over the years he has just gotten worse. We can cut his nails, lying on his back, one person on each leg with him screaming profanities at us, trying to bite us. It's a bloody nightmare. We have 5 Basenji's now, and he generally goes out into the exercise run with the 'pack leader' bossy bitch. They had a bit of a spat about 2 weeks ago. A few very superficial scrapes on both of them. Nothing to concern us. Now we have these feet issues that have increase dramatically, since this spat.

Well, the problem I have now is we cannot put his 2 coats on, to keep him warm. He will not let us put/guide his legs through the leg holes on the coat. He is really trying to bite us. None of the 4 of us, (me, hubby, 2 young adult girls) are really scared of him as such, until now. We have had temps between -3 to 0, in the mornings regularly recently, and I cannot put him down in the run without a coat on, it's just cruel, I think.

Hubby thinks its fine to just grab his leg, shove it through the hole, (roughly the last time he did it, he's now banned from doing anything with him), with someone firmly holding his head, and if he tries to have a go, he just grabs his head and either hits him, or

shakes him. I keep telling him that you can't treat aggression with aggression. He just believes that Saba has 'got it all over us', and we need to stop pandering to him. He thinks Saba has to learn we are the 'pack leader, not him'.

How do I get a coat on him safely ??? At the moment he is wearing 1 coat in the house, and if 2 people are home, (not hubby now), one uses a lead to muzzle him and hold his head, while the other gently puts his feet through the leg holes. He growls with intent, the whole way through having this done. If it's only 1 person at home, (it's usually me), he goes out for a reduced time, and comes back up to the house. It's just too cold for him outside with just one coat on, I think.

I desperately need some help in trying to desensitise him to having his legs/feet touched. I think I have begun to overthink this, and it is just leading to tears, and I just don't know what to do, how to do it .

Apologies for such a long essay, just trying to get everything down that might be relevant.

[Salukifan]

Have you had him thoroughly vetted? Chiropracted? It would be good to eliminate what you are getting as a pain reaction.

Invest in a muzzle. My guess is muzzled you may all relax a bit.

I'd also suggest you contact Aidan Bindoff about this.

[The Spotted Devil]

Have you had him thoroughly vetted? Chiropracted? It would be good to eliminate what you are getting as a pain reaction.

Invest in a muzzle. My guess is muzzled you may all relax a bit.

I'd also suggest you contact Aidan Bindoff about this.

Agree with all of the above. Definitely contact Aiden (Aiden2 on DOL).

The problem is if no-one has "listened" to his growls of warning and just forced him to do something, an escalation to a bite is not all that surprising.

[Better Late]

Get him to the vet to rule out any potential medical problems if you haven't already and I agree with HW, a chiropractor in case he's thrown something out. Seek out the help of a behaviourist ASAP, I know Steve from K9Pro does phone consults.

A muzzle will help ease your worries, Jafco basket muzzles are great and don't restrict the dogs muzzle to cause further stress. Using a leash to wrap around his snout will most likely just be adding to his frustrations.

[persephone]

Agree with a muzzle - although you possibly will not be able to put it on ! do NOT force the issue .

I strongly suggest a thorough vet check ..although if he has been this way since a pup - there is probably no immediate pain or injury . I DO recommend a behaviourist, recommended by DOLers be contacted immediately ., before any more confrontations with this dog . You may love him .. but owning him has big problems

IMO , he may indeed have been born with the aggression - kicking in when puberty hit ... and .... i do NOT believe in every temperament problem being caused by humans .

if he is cold - then just give him an enclosed, roofed space , filled with a mass of shredded paper into which he can burrow . Shredded paper is really good insulation :) You can also use things like several polar fleece blankets scrunched up , in a draught proof box/kennel ..and one or two of THESE. if he is cold - he will seek it out !

[persephone]

A thought .. has he always been active/jumping/running , etc ? Just wondering if there have been any signs along the way .. MAYBE ... maybe - he has always had some sort of joint/arthritis problem , worsening with the years ?

That is covering vet issues ..behavioural issues .. well.. that's why there are professionals - and I so hope you get assistance soon.

[LisaCC]

Have you had him thoroughly vetted? Chiropracted? It would be good to eliminate what you are getting as a pain reaction.

Invest in a muzzle. My guess is muzzled you may all relax a bit.

I'd also suggest you contact Aidan Bindoff about this.

Agree with all of the above. Definitely contact Aiden (Aiden2 on DOL).

The problem is if no-one has "listened" to his growls of warning and just forced him to do something, an escalation to a bite is not all that surprising.

Aidan3 now.

[Salukifan]

One more thing.

Invest in a few coats that don't need to have his legs put through them. They'll be warm enough.

[Pjrt]

One more thing.

Invest in a few coats that don't need to have his legs put through them. They'll be warm enough.

Yes I would invest in some jackets in the style that Velcro around the neck and belly so you can just lay it on his back and push the Velcro into position around his neck and belly. Take it off in reverse so you don't have to put his head through it or pick up his feet or legs.

[OSoSwift]

Get coats that don't need his legs threaded through and by a basket muzzle. He can pant and drink if it needs to be left on for slightly longer periods.

I have never had any issues with my dogs in this resepct adn I am not sure if it is just ebcasue my personality is a stronger one and I expect certain levels of behaviour and they are pulled up very short if they do not meet those levels. I do not see myself as a pack leader but I am where all food pats and good things come from, its my house and my rules, don't like it you get put outside to thinka bout it. You growl at the dog getting ont he lounge at my invitation? you get dumped off onto your bed on the floor and stay there. Not sure if people agree with me but so far 20 odd years many dogs and of a few different breeds and we don't have issues apart from minor ones.

[The Spotted Devil]

Thanks Lisa - forgot that!

Also, you can use straw bales to make a really warm space for him as a stop gap.

[rajacadoo]

Have you had him thoroughly vetted? Chiropracted? It would be good to eliminate what you are getting as a pain reaction.

Invest in a muzzle. My guess is muzzled you may all relax a bit.

I'd also suggest you contact Aidan Bindoff about this.

Apologies for not answering sooner, been in Hosp.

HW honestly the thought of taking him to the Vet fills me with horror. He's shocking there. Has to be muzzled and has needed sedation in the past as well. He means business.

I think I need to get him to a Vet for an assessment though. It will be a good starting point.

Can anyone suggest a good brand of muzzle please ???

Who is Aidan Bindoff ???

[rajacadoo]

Have you had him thoroughly vetted? Chiropracted? It would be good to eliminate what you are getting as a pain reaction.

Invest in a muzzle. My guess is muzzled you may all relax a bit.

I'd also suggest you contact Aidan Bindoff about this.

Agree with all of the above. Definitely contact Aiden (Aiden2 on DOL).

The problem is if no-one has "listened" to his growls of warning and just forced him to do something, an escalation to a bite is not all that surprising.

Thanks for letting me know who Aidan is, if I'm right he lives in Hobart ???

Agree about listening to his growls, he is at least still warning us, I hope that continues.

[rajacadoo]

Get him to the vet to rule out any potential medical problems if you haven't already and I agree with HW, a chiropractor in case he's thrown something out. Seek out the help of a behaviourist ASAP, I know Steve from K9Pro does phone consults.

A muzzle will help ease your worries, Jafco basket muzzles are great and don't restrict the dogs muzzle to cause further stress. Using a leash to wrap around his snout will most likely just be adding to his frustrations.

Mmmm I wonder if he will relax enough to allow a chiro to go over him. May try this, but need a muzzle first. Thanks for the recommendation of a Jafco muzzle. Yes the lead around his muzzle was really only a last resort.

[JulesP]

Don't put him on his back to do his nails. Whilst he is standing, pick his paw up and fold it backwards. Like you would pick up a horse's hoof.

[rajacadoo]

Agree with a muzzle - although you possibly will not be able to put it on ! do NOT force the issue .

I strongly suggest a thorough vet check ..although if he has been this way since a pup - there is probably no immediate pain or injury . I DO recommend a behaviourist, recommended by DOLers be contacted immediately ., before any more confrontations with this dog . You may love him .. but owning him has big problems

IMO , he may indeed have been born with the aggression - kicking in when puberty hit ... and .... i do NOT believe in every temperament problem being caused by humans .

if he is cold - then just give him an enclosed, roofed space , filled with a mass of shredded paper into which he can burrow . Shredded paper is really good insulation :) You can also use things like several polar fleece blankets scrunched up , in a draught proof box/kennel ..and one or two of THESE. if he is cold - he will seek it out !

I know I can get a muzzle on him, that's not a problem. He doesn't like it, but he accepts it reluctantly.

I know this boy is a liability, but we have strict measures in place to control him. Luckily we rarely have visitors, and if we do he is crated and visitors told not to go anywhere near him. The girls have boyfriends/girlfriends over, but no-one is allowed near him. The crate is his safe spot, he is happy there.

Sadly perse I really do think his issues were caused by us. I don't know what we did, I just truely believe we didn't handle his growling issues properly to start with, and now we are paying the price, with Saba being the victim in all this...

We have got 2 coats on him at the moment. They are not coming off him. I just cant chuck him out in the crappy cold weather without anything on him. My conscious couldn't let me !!!

[rajacadoo]

A thought .. has he always been active/jumping/running , etc ? Just wondering if there have been any signs along the way .. MAYBE ... maybe - he has always had some sort of joint/arthritis problem , worsening with the years ?

That is covering vet issues ..behavioural issues .. well.. that's why there are professionals - and I so hope you get assistance soon.

Yes always very active. The Basenji's have a track through the exercise run, that they really run and stretch out, and we call it the B500, and he runs as well as any of the others. No issues that I can see with pain.

Thanks Perse :) .

[rajacadoo]

Have you had him thoroughly vetted? Chiropracted? It would be good to eliminate what you are getting as a pain reaction.

Invest in a muzzle. My guess is muzzled you may all relax a bit.

I'd also suggest you contact Aidan Bindoff about this.

Agree with all of the above. Definitely contact Aiden (Aiden2 on DOL).

The problem is if no-one has "listened" to his growls of warning and just forced him to do something, an escalation to a bite is not all that surprising.

Aidan3 now.

Thanks Lisa CC.

[rajacadoo]

One more thing.

Invest in a few coats that don't need to have his legs put through them. They'll be warm enough.

I actually had 2 of these in the dog cupboard, ones that I had totally forgotten about. Thanks for the reminder.

[rajacadoo]

One more thing.

Invest in a few coats that don't need to have his legs put through them. They'll be warm enough.

Yes I would invest in some jackets in the style that Velcro around the neck and belly so you can just lay it on his back and push the Velcro into position around his neck and belly. Take it off in reverse so you don't have to put his head through it or pick up his feet or legs.

The ones with velco they, ( being all the Basenji's that live here), can and do, pull the velcro apart, and then step out of the coat. It's a game to them, and it's especially fun to rip up the coats after they are off.

I have 2 coats on him now.