sas Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I think some very valid points... https://www.thedodo.com/adoption-applications-perfect-family-1188877689.html?xrs=RebelMouse_fb# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Gifts Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Very interesting. I think there are some intrinsic problems. Most private rescues are operating under the steam of volunteers and the dogs are not in a central shelter location. Most of the initial screening is done by email or written applications (for convenience reasons) and you get a restricted sense of who the people behind the application are in relation to the dog they are interested in. People can and do lie on applications (for whatever reason), while others don't even understand the need for all the questions but in person I think you get a different understanding of who they are, their strengths and weaknesses as pet owners. I think a good home check can also reveal some interesting and important information but an applicant has to get to that stage in the process. I know plenty of average people knocked back by private rescues who managed to fairly easily get a dog from the RSPCA, which of course to them seems irrational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4darlingdogs Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I also think this has some very valid points too. We have to keep in mind that not everyone keeps their dogs like we might. So long as a dog has the food they need, the shelter and warmth and attention they need, is kept safely and is part of the family and cared for....then we must be flexible in our guidelines to adoption AND our attitude to others views and lifestyles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I love everything about this article. This is an enormous problem in the rescue/shelter world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I also think this has some very valid points too. We have to keep in mind that not everyone keeps their dogs like we might. So long as a dog has the food they need, the shelter and warmth and attention they need, is kept safely and is part of the family and cared for....then we must be flexible in our guidelines to adoption AND our attitude to others views and lifestyles. While I largely agree with this, I think there's differences in what might be considered breed -appropriate shelter & care. There's differences in how we keep our tibbies as compared with how we kept out equally much loved working dog breeds. I just heard the specifics of why a rescue turned down what I'd expected to be an appropriate home. And I then agreed with their decision. But, again, I think your overall point is a good one & still stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I think some very valid points... https://www.thedodo.com/adoption-applications-perfect-family-1188877689.html?xrs=RebelMouse_fb# Some very, very valid points. Each potential home should be taken on it's own merit. You can't have a one size fits all when dogs are all so unique and homes are equally as unique. I wish more rescuers would see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) Some valid points and I regularly rehome to homes that are nothing like mine however there are some basics that I require so I won't compromise on those. Edited June 12, 2015 by Her Majesty Dogmad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) Some valid points and I regularly rehome to homes that are nothing like mine however there are some basics that I require so I won't compromise on those. Same. I have a few "mandatories"and the rest are flexible. I'm not going to burst into tears if a dog misses out on a great home because there are plenty of other ones out there, too. We train our dogs up, socialise them and make sure they're ready before they're adopted so we often have a few very good homes to choose from. I think a lot of rescuers take an inflexible, one-size fits all approach which is wrong (i.e must be home full time, must do dog sports no matter what etc etc) but I believe it's my obligation to make sure I find the best possible home I can for a dog in my care. If someone is unhappy and goes off to buy from a pet shop or a BYB then I don't think they were the right applicant for my dog. I had someone abuse me because he wanted to breed from one of my fosters. I tried to explain the reasons to him politely but he got abusive. I'm sure he went out and got a dog from a BYB, but that doesn't make me think I should have adopted to him. I believe we should always be polite to applicants and not be judgmental. Some applicants actually need training for their existing dogs first before they get a new dog i.e. a new dog isn't a substitute for enrichment/training of your existing dog so I've suggested training tips or behaviourists to applicants. If someone isn't right for my dog or misses out, I'll talk to them and see if I can help them find another dog - whether from our group or elsewhere. Recently I had long chats and gave lots of advice to someone who didn't get our dog - he adopted a Kelpie from another rescue group but still made a $200 donation to our rescue group as a thank you. While some would argue a good home is better than death/no home at all, I'm in no rush and happy to hang on to my dogs as long as it takes to find them the perfect home for them. I personally don't see any issue with being picky - I'm the dog's only advocate and If I don't do my utmost to look out for the dog at the point of adoption, then it will be too late after that. As mentioned, it's about having the appropriate criteria tailored to the dog and the applicant. Edited June 12, 2015 by koalathebear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malti Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 (edited) I find every time this issue comes up it comes back to the same thing. Rescues rehome however they see fit, essentially the dog is the rescues dog, and it is not rescues that need to stop people buying dogs off BYBers or petshops. In a way, it always seems these threads are to point some blame towards rescue for people not choosing a rescue dog. Fine, some rescues require more details than others for people to adopt. But I have seen both, ones that you can turn up with the money and the dog is yours, people still return the dog, ones that screen highly and don't always get it right and dogs are returned. But to have to lay blame for who does and does not adopt a dog because of how one rescue chooses to rehome is not the total blame of that rescuer, and they may know the dog better and have valid reasons that others may not see because they don't have the dog in their care. Likewise, the article could be reversed and a rescuer quit because they didn't rehome a dog right once. It doesn't make the failed adopter responsible. All this rescue stuff is not perfect, not one way is right and one way is wrong, that is why there are so many rescues, right? So their is diversity. Otherwise wouldn't we all just rescue for the RSPCA? Edited June 12, 2015 by Malti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I find every time this issue comes up it comes back to the same thing. Rescues rehome however they see fit, essentially the dog is the rescues dog, and it is not rescues that need to stop people buying dogs off BYBers or petshops. In a way, it always seems these threads are to point some blame towards rescue for people not choosing a rescue dog. Fine, some rescues require more details than others for people to adopt. But I have seen both, ones that you can turn up with the money and the dog is yours, people still return the dog, ones that screen highly and don't always get it right and dogs are returned. But to have to lay blame for who does and does not adopt a dog because of how one rescue chooses to rehome is not the total blame of that rescuer, and they may know the dog better and have valid reasons that others may not see because they don't have the dog in their care. Likewise, the article could be reversed and a rescuer quit because they didn't rehome a dog right once. It doesn't make the failed adopter responsible. All this rescue stuff is not perfect, not one way is right and one way is wrong, that is why there are so many rescues, right? So their is diversity. Otherwise wouldn't we all just rescue for the RSPCA? Both of your posts make excellent sense Malti. I can have a lovely home on offer but have a dog that cannot cope as an only dog. Making a placement there will not bring happiness for the dog or the new owners when they find poo/wee everywhere, torn household items, get complaints from their neighbours and so on. I will help the lovely home find just the right dog or if I'm flat out, i'll point them in the right direction. I do the same with foster carers, I just had to turn down a very nice foster home as their fencing was too low for the dogs I generally take. I recommended them to PAWS as they were so keen to help and were very good dog owners and they got a 14 year old dog the next day who needed medications and was quite the challenge. They did an amazing job and he found an amazing home a couple of months on. Great results all round. I am desperate for foster carers myself but will not risk the injury/death of one of my rescued IGs by placing them in the wrong home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I find every time this issue comes up it comes back to the same thing. Rescues rehome however they see fit, essentially the dog is the rescues dog, and it is not rescues that need to stop people buying dogs off BYBers or petshops. In a way, it always seems these threads are to point some blame towards rescue for people not choosing a rescue dog.Fine, some rescues require more details than others for people to adopt. But I have seen both, ones that you can turn up with the money and the dog is yours, people still return the dog, ones that screen highly and don't always get it right and dogs are returned. But to have to lay blame for who does and does not adopt a dog because of how one rescue chooses to rehome is not the total blame of that rescuer, and they may know the dog better and have valid reasons that others may not see because they don't have the dog in their care. Likewise, the article could be reversed and a rescuer quit because they didn't rehome a dog right once. It doesn't make the failed adopter responsible. All this rescue stuff is not perfect, not one way is right and one way is wrong, that is why there are so many rescues, right? So their is diversity. Otherwise wouldn't we all just rescue for the RSPCA? You are so right. If as rescuers we just hand a dog over a half decent home without making sure we think it's the right fit, how are we any better than BYBers or pet stores? As you've pointed out, all rescue groups have different policies and you can find one that is the right fit - both as an adopter and as a foster carer. I left my old group because I disagreed very strongly with some of their policies and I found that I had to fight very, very hard to place my dogs in the homes where I felt they were better placed. My current group gives me the support I need and also trusts my decisions so I'm much, much happier. We've never had a dog returned and all of our adopting families keep in touch with us and send us updates so I have no regrets for always making sure it's the right home before I agree to adopt out a dog... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Gifts Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 The main issue for me is still that some people who might be good owners don't even get past the initial email phase or maybe the application phase as something they have written gets them a cross rather than a tick. They are then discouraged because they don't really understand why they are being rejected. They assume another rescue group will just do the same so they go elsewhere. Not everyone is savvy to rescue's expectations and rescue doesn't have the time to educate on the why behind their expectations. Some of these people will go on to buying a pet from a pet shop or BYBer because they feel they are ready for a dog in their lives and these dogs will lead perfectly good pet lives. Don't get me wrong, I do understand the need to rely on standard written apps and enquiry emails given most rescuers need to fit rescue into busy lives and I absolutely agree that finding the right home for each and every dog is the main goal, but I think it is at the one size fits all front end of the process we are losing potentially good adopters. To those of you who are flexible in their approach do you do the majority of your vetting at the enquiry or application stage or do more happen after meet and greets or home checks? I'm just curious to see if it fits my theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 To those of you who are flexible in their approach do you do the majority of your vetting at the enquiry or application stage or do more happen after meet and greets or home checks? I'm just curious to see if it fits my theory. I get an inquiry via petrescue. If the blurb sounds promising right away, then I phone them, have a chat, ask them to email me the written application and set up a yard check time. If they've already filled out the application first and sent it to me, then I read it, phone them right away and set up a yard check. If the petrescue application sounds dodgy/crap, I email them and ask them to submit a written application before I decide if I want to phone them. Some go away when they see they have to fill out a form, others fill it in and I decide then if they're worth phoning and chatting to. So I reply to all inquiries, but may not phone or do yard checks for everyone. For me, the yard check is a good chance to see how they interact with the dog, how the other members of the family interact with the dog, if everyone's keen or if it's just one person wanting the dog. Some applications are just so amazing at the first instance that I'm pretty sure it's a go-er even before I phone them - but I never make up my mind for sure if they should adopt the dog until after the yard check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I think the issue can be when someone has met a dog and gets to yardcheck stage they pretty much expect to be adopting the dog. Some rescue groups work in that way and the yard check can be a real shock. I don't work that way usually, I do a yard check before any meeting and after a phone interview. The yard check is only done if they seem like a great prospect. I have an application form and they need to say how high their fencing is (Italian Greyhounds & Whippets can jump or climb very high). I've had someone declare 6 ft fencing which is fine but then my homechecker gets there and discovers it is on one side but all other sides are 4 ft. This isn't ok. I explain why - I am not rude or upset even though mine and my homechecker's time have been wasted but I explain why it won't be ok, even though we have already discussed this during the phone interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) [While some would argue a good home is better than death/no home at all, I'm in no rush and happy to hang on to my dogs as long as it takes to find them the perfect home for them. I personally don't see any issue with being picky - I'm the dog's only advocate and If I don't do my utmost to look out for the dog at the point of adoption, then it will be too late after that. As mentioned, it's about having the appropriate criteria tailored to the dog and the applicant. By chance I've just been speaking to a registered tibbie breeder who basically said exactly the same about her approach to finding a home for her puppy. I call this being professional, whether you're a rescuer or a breeder. With the rider that rescuers have another compelling reason for a placed dog not bouncing , if humanly possible... the rescue dogs have already been bounced around at considerable risk to their adjustment. Edited June 13, 2015 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) With the rider that rescuers have another compelling reason for a placed dog not bouncing , if humanly possible... the rescue dogs have already been bounced around at considerable risk to their adjustment. Absolutely. The more homes a dog goes to, the more unsettled it can become ... For adopters I feel 'good' about, I let them have extra contact with the dog even before the trial adoption - hanging out for the day, walking the dog etc, maybe even a one night sleepover. It's not because of the trial adoption period - our group offers a 2 week trial, during which they will refund but after which they will not rehome the adoption fee but my husband and I offer a guarantee for the life of our foster dogs to take them back with a full refund. For us, it's to try to find a way to best ease them into their new homes. For some dogs, they will transition better if they've had lots of contact before they move to a new home. Other dogs are mega adaptable so I feel fine just handing them over at the commencement of the trial. I think the issue can be when someone has met a dog and gets to yardcheck stage they pretty much expect to be adopting the dog. Absolutely. Ideally no one should meet the dog until they've passed the yard check because if they meet the dog, fall in love and then fail the yard check it can be quite upsetting. I sometimes combine the yard check with the meet and greet but remind the applicant that they are not getting the dog unless the yard check is satisfactory - and it's not because they might not have a great home for a dog, but they may not be the right fit for THIS dog and if it's not the right fit, I will try to find them another dog in care that might be suitable. We always get emails after the yard check saying: "Hope we passed, we loved the dog - can we adopt? :) " If a dog's under application, I still do yard checks for other promising applicants telling them that I can put them in a waiting list if the first application falls through. I bring the dog and one of my own dogs along so that they can see the different personalities and we talk about what they are after in a dog - so they don't see it as a 'failure' of a yard check, so much as an opportunity to meet two different types of Kelpies and see what they like. I have to say there are plenty of applicants out there who expect that just because they are interested in the dog, they have an automatic entitlement to the dog. You would not believe the number of times I've seen people say: "I want to adopt x dog. What's your address? Coming to pick it up." recently a foster carer got subjected to a lot of abuse and anger just because she wanted to have a chat and have the applicant fill out the application form. The applicant assumed it was like a pet shop system where just because you want something you can buy it ... Edited June 13, 2015 by koalathebear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) I was talking to a mum at my son's school who is very excited to be getting a new puppy. They had wanted to get a rescue puppy, but the process put them off, they felt interrogated and not really sure if they would be given the pup, from a well known Sydney rescue. So in the end they went to a BYB It is a shame that people end up feeling this way about rescue. I'll be helping them with some training once they settle the puppy in. Edited June 13, 2015 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) I was talking to a mum at my son's school who is very excited to be getting a new puppy. They had wanted to get a rescue puppy, but the process put them off, they felt interrogated and not really sure if they would be given the pup, from a well known Sydney rescue. So in the end they went to a BYB It is a shame that people end up feeling this way about rescue. I'll be helping them with some training once they settle the puppy in. I feel sad that people feel this way about rescues. Not all rescues are like that. You're on my facebook and you see how I treat my applicants .. I certainly don't interrogate them. If I did, I doubt they'd still keep in touch after the adoption and I'd say most other carers in my group are the same. A friendly chat is always better for obtaining information than an interrogation - and I'm always very appreciative that people are considering a rescue dog - even if it turns out my dog might not be suitable for them. Edited June 13, 2015 by koalathebear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Some people simply don't like being asked any questions at all. Sometimes those people will say to me "look, I've had dogs all my life, why should I answer all these bloody questions, I just want to adopt a dog". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 (edited) I know not all rescues are like that, I understand that rescue is tough and what it can do to rescuers in how they view people applying for dogs. I don't think they had a problem answering questions, but they felt that after all of that, they may not get the dog, and got disheartened. It does seem to be quite a common feeling among people who are interested in getting a dog from rescue. Such a pity they went to a BYB though, instead of going to a registered breeder. I've actually had less problems getting a dog from a breeder than I suspect I would if I got a dog from rescue. Edited June 13, 2015 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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