2labs Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Hi Firstly I'm fairly new here so hello to everyone :-) I as my name states currently have 2 labs, a 3yo choccie and a 11m/old black. I am currently helping a friend of mine who is registering for a prefix (WA) as she is contemplating breeding her girl with my choc boy. We have already undergone the process of having hips and elbows scored - both had what I consider to be fairly decent scores (2:1 for my boy 2:2 for her girl) - and we have done our DNA screening all clear for both and had eyes checked also. Eyes were done prior to the DNA testing both dogs are clear on all diseases. I did already know that my boy was clear by parentage as I am in regular contact with his breeder, but wanted to have it done as over here in WA our Dog body wants copies on record. So my question is - we are both stuck stumped on a question within the genetics section. Which genes can appear in visible form in each second generation? From what I've read and can make out is that each the dog and the bitch passes on one gene to their offspring to make it a whole, affecting genetic conditions such as EIC PRA etc, colour, body structure etc, but I'm really unsure of this question. I was wondering if anyone on here would have a link to information that I could read that might make more sense, unfortunately the information given in the breeders course education book is very very basic. Thanks in advance :-) Nel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) Hi Firstly I'm fairly new here so hello to everyone :-) I as my name states currently have 2 labs, a 3yo choccie and a 11m/old black. I am currently helping a friend of mine who is registering for a prefix (WA) as she is contemplating breeding her girl with my choc boy. We have already undergone the process of having hips and elbows scored - both had what I consider to be fairly decent scores (2:1 for my boy 2:2 for her girl) - and we have done our DNA screening all clear for both and had eyes checked also. Eyes were done prior to the DNA testing both dogs are clear on all diseases. I did already know that my boy was clear by parentage as I am in regular contact with his breeder, but wanted to have it done as over here in WA our Dog body wants copies on record. So my question is - we are both stuck stumped on a question within the genetics section. Which genes can appear in visible form in each second generation? From what I've read and can make out is that each the dog and the bitch passes on one gene to their offspring to make it a whole, affecting genetic conditions such as EIC PRA etc, colour, body structure etc, but I'm really unsure of this question. I was wondering if anyone on here would have a link to information that I could read that might make more sense, unfortunately the information given in the breeders course education book is very very basic. Thanks in advance :-) Nel Are they talking about recessive genes? Genetics is not my strong suit but the words "visible" and "second generation" point me that way. Edited May 7, 2015 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottsmum Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Can you ask the breeder you mention in your original post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) So...presuming you are talking about a simple recessive trait I'll use a generic example...if the bitch is clear she will be XX. If she was a carrier she would be Xx. The dog should also be, by definition, (clear by parentage) XX. However I would check whether his sire and dam were both XX. Some people may call carrier (non-affected) and clear the same thing but they are not. If they are both clear the next generation will all be clear (XX). If your boy is in fact a carrier (Xx) then the next generation will technically be 50:50 clear:carrier ie XX, XX, Xx, Xx. Does that help? Edited May 7, 2015 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stressmagnet Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Well done Spotted Devil. My head hurt after your second sentence. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Well done Spotted Devil. My head hurt after your second sentence. :D Oh cr@p that really wasn't my intention :laugh: Happy to clarify further!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taliecat Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 It made sense to me! But I've been looking up the genetics of eye colours lately. I remember back in school I used a grid to work out the genetic chances of inherited traits.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) Yes exactly! So remembering that one gene comes from the sire and one comes from the dam, if your dog is Xx one of the parents randomly contributed one of their alleles (X) and the other contributed the other one (x). If a trait is recessive then a dog must have two copies of the x allele if they are affected thus xx and they can ONLY pass on x. Contribution is always random like tossing a coin (although it gets more complicated when traits are sex-linked etc). Xx mates XX Possible random outcomes are X from parent 1 and X from parent 2; X from parent 1 and again X from parent 2; x from parent 1 and X from parent 2; x from parent 1 and X from parent 2. That's where the 50:50 theoretical outcome is from. Edited May 7, 2015 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2labs Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Hi Guys and thanks for the replies :-) Scottsmum, yes I have emailed my dog's breeder as well, I am just waiting for a reply :-) Thank you The Spotted Devil, I thought it must be something like that, a simple recessive trait unfortunately the genetics side of things is definitely NOT my strong suit. I have checked my boys side, he is clear so XX both his sire and dam are also clear XX and also their parents are clear also, so he is clear by parentage. My friend's bitch is DNA clear XX, her dam is also clear XX BUT her sire is a carrier of EIC so Xx. This is what confuses me because I figure if we mate these 2 technically all pups would be XX or clear too because mum and dad are clear HOWEVER because mum's sire is a carrier of EIC could this be what they mean? She dna's clear but can pass on the EIC from her sire to her pups? I'm so confused. I really appreciate all of the replies guys thanks :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) Gotcha! Don't worry about what's behind the dam if she is XX clear. Her genes are her genes. The next generation will also be clear by parentage if she is mated to a sire that is also clear. The bitch's breeder did the exact right thing by mating carrier to clear by the way. Can you post the exact question? Edited May 7, 2015 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2labs Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Which genes can appear in visible form in each second generation? Thats the exact question as written in the exam book :-) Thanks so much for your help Spotted Devil I never knew there was so much involved in genetics! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Crikey I only know the basics! Sorry to be a pain but that question is really poorly written. Are there a series of questions leading up to it? No wonder you're having trouble! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jemappelle Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Yes it is a poorly written question and requires a broad answer, I think. Or is it part of a series of questions eg, question 1(a) or something? Any more clues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Yes it is a poorly written question and requires a broad answer, I think. Or is it part of a series of questions eg, question 1(a) or something? Any more clues? Yes exactly what I was thinking jem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRG Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 presumably the answer is "recessive" - if it is talking about non specific things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Hence my broad answer :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2labs Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 Nope no questions that lead into it. The first question is complete the following …….. begets LIKE and then ……… begets QUALITY. Then that stupid question and then which factors suppress the expression of recessive factors? Then three pretty easy yes/no questions. Hence the total complete confusion. My boy's breeder said pretty much the same, it sounds like a basic broad question in relation to 'recessive' factors. Thanks for your help so far guys it may just be a case where she's just going to have to answer it with a simple sort of genetic case study like Spotted Devil did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 (edited) That is really a stupidly worded question and the short answer would be "recessive" as has already been said. The long answer would be something like this: putting it in a spoiler to avoid giving Stressmagnet a headache Where the first generation both carry heterozygous genes for a trait that is a simple dominant/recessiive trait, then the second generation may include individuals who are homozygous for the recessive trait and therefore will display it in their phenotype. Edited May 8, 2015 by RuralPug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Nice RP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stressmagnet Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 That is really a stupidly worded question and the short answer would be "recessive" as has already been said. The long answer would be something like this: putting it in a spoiler to avoid giving Stressmagnet a headache Where the first generation both carry heterozygous genes for a trait that is a simple dominant/recessiive trait, then the second generation may include individuals who are homozygous for the recessive trait and therefore will display it in their phenotype. I clicked. I got brain freeze. I think I should be banned from these threads. Carrry on, all you smarty pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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