Neighbours Awarded $240K For Barking Dogs

[espinay2]

These dogs are working livestock guardians in an area with a high predator load (bear and cougar). They are in a rural location and doing their job. There is a lot that has gone on prior to this and a lot that was wrong with the judges decision. The dog owners were prevented from presenting a lot of their evidence and they were for some reason gagged from using the states 'right to farm' laws which they had every right to use (and very much applies to their situation. There are also rulings in favour of LGD owners under 'right to farm' ). The plaintiffs bought in an 'expert' who claimed TM's were not LGD (which they are) and that they should get a more suitable and 'quiet' breed like Pyreneans (anyone who has a clue about LGD and Pyrs in particular knows they are probably the biggest barkers of any of the LGD breeds ... ). The decision is incredibly damaging and may have serious implications for owners of working LGD all over the US. An appeal is pending.

Edited April 28, 2015 by espinay2

[Steph M]

Won't the neighbors be mad when they are under siege from bears and the like.

[Dame Aussie]

These dogs are working livestock guardians in an area with a high predator load (bear and cougar). They are in a rural location and doing their job. There is a lot that has gone on prior to this and a lot that was wrong with the judges decision. The dog owners were prevented from presenting a lot of their evidence and they were for some reason gagged from using the states 'right to farm' laws which they had every right to use (and very much applies to their situation. There are also rulings in favour of LGD owners under 'right to farm' ). The plaintiffs bought in an 'expert' who claimed TM's were not LGD (which they are) and that they should get a more suitable and 'quiet' breed like Pyreneans (anyone who has a clue about LGD and Pyrs in particular knows they are probably the biggest barkers of any of the LGD breeds ... ). The decision is incredibly damaging and may have serious implications for owners of working LGD all over the US. An appeal is pending.

Thanks for that info espinay, its interesting. As the owner of an LGD, they bark as a part of their job, all of them :laugh:. Sure it can be annoying but they were bred that way for a reason.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Dame Aussie

[Paws22]

So the dogs have to be maimed because the owners were too selfish to re-home them to a more suitable home? Disgusting.

[mr.mister]

Some very emotive language being used by those against de-barking. Do you feel the same way about a dog's reproductive organs being removed - ie; a routine desexing? I have met debarked dogs; their surgeries were successful and they thoroughly enjoyed barking their little heads off - whilst making hardly any noise at all. That seems like a better option to me than rehoming or being PTS.

[dragonwoman]

Some very emotive language being used by those against de-barking. Do you feel the same way about a dog's reproductive organs being removed - ie; a routine desexing? I have met debarked dogs; their surgeries were successful and they thoroughly enjoyed barking their little heads off - whilst making hardly any noise at all. That seems like a better option to me than rehoming or being PTS.

And I have known two dogs with lifetime disabilities caused by debarking

[Steph M]

In all fairness.that's two.out.of many, some might say they've known dogs with disabilities from desexing.

I'm.neither here nor there on the subject but two isn't a lot...

[Dame Aussie]

Debarking = maimed

Desexing = happy happy joy joy

:laugh:

[OSoSwift]

Funny how one is seen as maiming and the other as routine, who cares. Well said DA

[mita]

It is humans who have an issue with debarking, the dogs have no idea they have been done they still bark but with very little noise comes out so they are still doing what comes naturally.

.

I had ideas that debarking was barbaric & cruel. Until I ran into 2 (show) tibbies that were debarked & I didn't know it. I seriously remarked to the owners ...where did their tibs get those sexy voices. Much laughter, they'd been debarked. They had voices & could express themselves well, but the high pitches had been removed, leaving them with husky but clear voices that couldn't carry far.

I think it's better called 'pitch-lowering' .... because that's what it is, not removal of voice. Humans have 'pitch-lowering', too. Except it's done via speech therapy. Some women in the public sphere, like newsreaders etc, have speech therapy to lower the pitch of their voice. Obviously dogs can't have speech therapy... only surgery.

A famous example was Margaret Thatcher. When she started to rise in politics, her very high pitched voice was annoying. One of her colleagues remarked that her voice could kill a passing bird. She had speech therapy & her pitch was lowered. She might still have annoyed people for all sorts of things .... but her high pitched voice was gone. And passing birds were safe.

[Lhok]

It is humans who have an issue with debarking, the dogs have no idea they have been done they still bark but with very little noise comes out so they are still doing what comes naturally.

.

I had ideas that debarking was barbaric & cruel. Until I ran into 2 (show) tibbies that were debarked & I didn't know it. I seriously remarked to the owners ...where did their tibs get those sexy voices. Much laughter, they'd been debarked. They had voices & could express themselves well, but the high pitches had been removed, leaving them with husky but clear voices that couldn't carry far.

I think it's better called 'pitch-lowering' .... because that's what it is, not removal of voice. Humans have 'pitch-lowering', too. Except it's done via speech therapy. Some women in the public sphere, like newsreaders etc, have speech therapy to lower the pitch of their voice. Obviously dogs can't have speech therapy... only surgery.

A famous example was Margaret Thatcher. When she started to rise in politics, her very high pitched voice was annoying. One of her colleagues remarked that her voice could kill a passing bird. She had speech therapy & her pitch was lowered. She might still have annoyed people for all sorts of things .... but her high pitched voice was gone. And passing birds were safe.

Sorry Mita, but what you said about Thatcher reminds me of this

from singing in the rain :laugh:

--Lhok

[mita]

Loved it, Lhok. And the harder she tries, the higher her pitch goes! :)

[Trisven13]

Some very emotive language being used by those against de-barking. Do you feel the same way about a dog's reproductive organs being removed - ie; a routine desexing? I have met debarked dogs; their surgeries were successful and they thoroughly enjoyed barking their little heads off - whilst making hardly any noise at all. That seems like a better option to me than rehoming or being PTS.

Yes - I live with a number of dogs, two of whom have been debarked. Both still happily bark, both still appear particularly happy with their lot in life. One I debarked (the only time I've ever done it) and the other was done before she arrived. Different breeds and different circumstances for debarking - to be fair I don't think I would have debarked the one who who arrived here done as she doesn't bark IMO very often. The one I did I would debark MORE if I could - he drives me freaking insane as he barks for no good reason on a regular basis and it is quite unusual for his breed.

Some very emotive language being used by those against de-barking. Do you feel the same way about a dog's reproductive organs being removed - ie; a routine desexing? I have met debarked dogs; their surgeries were successful and they thoroughly enjoyed barking their little heads off - whilst making hardly any noise at all. That seems like a better option to me than rehoming or being PTS.

And I have known two dogs with lifetime disabilities caused by debarking

What where those disabilities????? I'm curious as the two I live with display no difference whatsoever.

[_PL_]

Debarking = maimed

Desexing = happy happy joy joy

:laugh:

I'd vote for a debark any day when people have to get rid of their pets because the neighbours are making their life hell.

The several I've had through, have been happy healthy little critters. And I'm not surprised the yappy little things were done. :laugh:

Desexing, is more painful and more 'un-natural' and has it's own complications if you want to make comparisons. But just like a debark, it has to be done when the circumstances mean the dog will live a quality life. Free of unwanted litters and baits thrown over the fence.

[YippeeGirl]

Having lived next door to a chronic barker, I can understand why some people throw baits over the fence (definitely not saying I would, or condone it in any way). This dog would literally sit and bark for hours at a time. It was only a tiny dog but it had a very loud bark, and at night all you could hear was it yapping.

We had to tiptoe around the house, because the owners would leave this dog outside all day, and as soon as me or my mum opened the back door, it would start running up and down the fence barking. No amount of bribing, growling, or kicking the fence got it to stop. Two of our dogs learned to ignore it, but one who is reactive with other dogs, quickly became obsessed, and so I had to start taking her out on a leash just to go to the toilet in the backyard.

Dog barking is such a pervasive sound. I was so glad when the son who owned the dog, finally came and took it away. Having to sit and listen to that dog barking day in and day out, was driving me insane. I felt sorry for the dog. It was bored, under-exercised, and had gone from an inside dog to an outside dog. However, if the owners aren't going to do anything to address the barking, debarking is better than pushing your neighbours to breaking point.