leopuppy04 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I'm starting to think more and more about the possibilities of importing to expand my lines. I don't have any money to do it in the near future, but I want/ need to know the rough estimates of costs and what you think is better - ie: do you import just the semen, import the dog or import a bitch in dam? One of my main concerns is that our lines in Australia always seem to end up in the same spot and I think we need to start expanding. I want to go overseas to see the dogs to help me make the choices rather than just going on what breeders say / show over the internet. For those of you that have done it before - what led you to your decision? How did you go about it and are you happy with your choices. Most likely - importing will be occurring from the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazzat Xolo Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I'm starting to think more and more about the possibilities of importing to expand my lines. I don't have any money to do it in the near future, but I want/ need to know the rough estimates of costs and what you think is better - ie: do you import just the semen, import the dog or import a bitch in dam? One of my main concerns is that our lines in Australia always seem to end up in the same spot and I think we need to start expanding. I want to go overseas to see the dogs to help me make the choices rather than just going on what breeders say / show over the internet. For those of you that have done it before - what led you to your decision? How did you go about it and are you happy with your choices. Most likely - importing will be occurring from the US. I have imported both semen and dogs from the USA, my choice was dependant upon the limitations to how many dogs I could own, having said that, I have males who are living abroad and I can access the semen from them when I want to and had them collected at an early age and some stored here. It really depends upon individual circumstances and the people who may want to user your dog and your willingness to let others use your dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I will be looking to import semen. Much cheaper then importing a dog who would most likely only be used a couple of times. I'd import a bitch before I imported a male. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wazzat Xolo Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I'm starting to think more and more about the possibilities of importing to expand my lines. I don't have any money to do it in the near future, but I want/ need to know the rough estimates of costs and what you think is better - ie: do you import just the semen, import the dog or import a bitch in dam? One of my main concerns is that our lines in Australia always seem to end up in the same spot and I think we need to start expanding. I want to go overseas to see the dogs to help me make the choices rather than just going on what breeders say / show over the internet. For those of you that have done it before - what led you to your decision? How did you go about it and are you happy with your choices. Most likely - importing will be occurring from the US. I have imported both semen and dogs from the USA, my choice was dependant upon the limitations to how many dogs I could own, having said that, I have males who are living abroad and I can access the semen from them when I want to and had them collected at an early age and some stored here. It really depends upon individual circumstances and the people who may want to user your dog and your willingness to let others use your dog the only thing I would advise wt=ith the USA, get it all in writing what you will be paying for, I was charged for per Km vet trips, faxes, lunch stops etc and all sorts of payments which actually would have made importing a dog not that much dearer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 No contest: Import semen. Quarantine fees are out of control, and the risk of importing a dog who turns out to be less than expected are horrendous. Surgical AI and frozen semen are expensive, but the cost is trivial compared to that of live animal import. Should someone offer to give you a great proven dog with health tests, etc., I'd consider importing the dog, but not otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I'm starting to think more and more about the possibilities of importing to expand my lines. I don't have any money to do it in the near future, but I want/ need to know the rough estimates of costs and what you think is better - ie: do you import just the semen, import the dog or import a bitch in dam? One of my main concerns is that our lines in Australia always seem to end up in the same spot and I think we need to start expanding. I want to go overseas to see the dogs to help me make the choices rather than just going on what breeders say / show over the internet. For those of you that have done it before - what led you to your decision? How did you go about it and are you happy with your choices. Most likely - importing will be occurring from the US. I have imported both semen and dogs from the USA, my choice was dependant upon the limitations to how many dogs I could own, having said that, I have males who are living abroad and I can access the semen from them when I want to and had them collected at an early age and some stored here. It really depends upon individual circumstances and the people who may want to user your dog and your willingness to let others use your dog the only thing I would advise wt=ith the USA, get it all in writing what you will be paying for, I was charged for per Km vet trips, faxes, lunch stops etc and all sorts of payments which actually would have made importing a dog not that much dearer. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Semen. That way you can access the best dogs from the best lines (politics excluded). Very few people will send the best to the other side of the world - and certainly not a proven sire of high quality stock. There is the possibility of building a relationship with your breeder of choice and borrowing a high class producing dog for (say) 6 months. That would cost far more than importing a single dog - but gives you access to a dog you could never hope to own outright and possibly the chance to store semen locally as well as using him "live". If you import a live dog, how many times will you be able to use him in your breeding programme - he will not be the right dog for all your bitches. I have imported dogs from the UK to NZ and from Australia to NZ. The UK import I saw as a young-ish pup. He was chosen in conjunction with a lot of advice from one of the most respected breeder in my breed in the world (she did not breed him). He did everything she said he would do for my breeding programme and his influence is still apparent today (nearly 20 years later) The Aussie imports varied, three of them were pups, one was an adult bitch, the rest were adult males I borrowed for a short while. The thing you need to remember is that unless you are very lucky you are importing bloodlines not a show dog. Sometimes you get both! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Whilst bringing in semen is expensive it can then make financial sense to import semen from multiple sires. One friend has done that whilst another brought in a dog and a bitch (for him and someone else but that would complement each other in terms of lines) and then brought in a bitch in whelp with a "syndicate" of people who wanted a working pup. I think both options have worked well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poocow Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I have bought in semen from OS and its failed - an expensive exercise for nothing in return. My breed is very hard to get successful litters using frozen semen from. I will try again at a later stage but not with the initial bitch I tried with - shes getting too old to try now. I am going overseas to meet some dogs soon, see them in the flesh and see what lines I like/don't like etc. In a few years I would like to bring over a bitch - hopefully in whelp. Having a rare breed we are constantly needing to expand our gene pool as theres just such limited options here. With Aussies I would be looking at what meshes well with what you have - theres quite a lot of variation of bloodlines already here that you can see what works and what doesn't work etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpha bet Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I am going thru the same thing... trying to work out what is best... but it might just depend on what is available.... I would love to bring a bitch out.... even better bring out a bitch in whelp.....but that could be difficult to find what I want and what I want is probably not going to be available.... Did a trip a couple of years ago and have started discussions now. Expecting to go over again in the next 12 months with a hope of finding something that might be available? Bit scary really.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I imported a 12 week old male puppy from Norway nearly 5 years ago, prior to the quarantine rules changing and Norway becoming a Cat 4 country. Total costs for pup, airfares and quarantine was between $8500 - $9000. 2 years later I imported a 2 1/2 year old female from Norway - she had passed all her health clearances and had a litter on the ground and I didn't have any change out of $9500. Why did I do it - the gene pool was so small and breeders kept using the same males over and over, compounding health issues. I liked what I saw in Europe so I thought it was money well spent. 5 years down the track - it was definitely money well spent and I don't regret my decision one bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I too am going through exactly this. Another question would you use a maiden bitch for AI frozen. I have someone from Cryogenes that I have been put in touch with looking in USA. i hope to hear back apparently it's around $4500 just for the semen to get here all up and then between $1200 and $1800 to have it put in your bitch. But like so many others with not much in the gene pool to choose from where else can we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkehre Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I've just imported semen collected from 2 dogs currently living in the US. I plan to do an AI on my maiden bitch with one of these in a few months, so yes, I would and will be doing an AI on a maiden bitch. Yes, doing a frozen AI on a maiden bitch carries a few more risks than with a proven bitch, but as long as she has an internal vaginal examination, is vaginal swabbed prior and the owners knows she handles anaesthetic fine, then the only real risk as I see it opposed to a natural mating is the additional expense. I am willing to take that chance to use the male I want. Any breeding is a risk, I have weighed it all up and am comfortable with it. The upside of using imported frozen semen is not having to deal with relying on stud owners at the time of mating and elimination of risk of the stud possibly giving your bitch an infection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I plan to use imported semen on a maiden bitch. Very comfortable with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poocow Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I think doing an AI on a maiden bitch is fine. This would be provided your bitch has had the swabs done and is healthy and of course that the semen you are importing has a good post thaw motility. If the semen quality wasn't as good I would probably opt to do a back to back litter with the frozen as the 2nd litter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Maiden bitch for AI is recommended by a lot of specialist vets due to the condition of the uterus. She would need to come from a family of good mums for me to do it, but if you have a breed where bad mothering is common then this probably wouldn't be an issue. Only done frozen once and it was with a maiden bitch. She only conceived one pup, next time to a natural mating she had 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Both frozen and importing a dog or bitch have their place. It can really depend on what you want to do, what you have, and what you can get. So far I have only imported frozen, though haven't ruled out importing a dog/bitch in future. It has been a long and expensive learning experience, but I am happy so far with the outcome (just don't add up your costs ;) ). One of the biggest things is being able to go and see the dog in person. Sometimes that is hard as it can be a choice of either having the money to import or having the money to visit. It can sometimes be hard to do both so you have to put a lot of trust in what you are told and what you see in pictures and video (I would always ask for video if I couldn't visit in person). I do try to visit if I can. For the US, going to your breeds National is a good way to start. It gives you a general idea of the dogs out there and what you may like/not like, and helps you develop or cement contacts and friendships which will help a lot. From my perspective here are some pros/cons: Frozen semen: Pros: You get to use the dog you want. You get an opportunity to look at the dog and see what it is producing first. You can pick your 'perfect match' for your bitch no matter where the dog is in the world. Can be cheaper than importing a dog, so for the same money as importing a dog you may be able to use several different dogs rather than just using the one. Cons: Frozen AI can be hit and miss - it can be really successful or you may get nothing. It can still be expensive! (make sure you import the whole ejaculate and have enough for multiple breedings - you may need it to get one litter (or you may be lucky and get several litters out of it)). Some dogs don't 'freeze' well and sometimes what will get a bitch pregnant on a live cover, will not work with Frozen. Dog: Pros: You can import a bitch, which may be of more use to you than a dog depending on what you want to do with your lines. You get to use the dog as many times as you want. You get to have the dog in your life, show it, etc etc. Cons: Expensive! Some breeders may not be willing to run a pup on for the time that is required. You generally have to take a chance with a puppy and hope it will be what you want. If you can't visit the pup you take the risk that it is not really what you want. You can get the dog and find it is sterile (has happened) or the bitch can't have a litter (also has happened). You don't get to control how the dog is raised and have to put a lot of trust in the breeder in how they raise them in terms of socialisation etc (Some breeders are fantastic and put a lot of effort into the dog for you. With some the dog may just be 'part of the pack or a kennel dog and wont get too much exposure out of the kennel before they leave). You have to trust that the pup will grow into something that suits your lines and can be used in your breeding program. Depending on how often you use the dog, you may end up at square one having to import again as everything you own is by or out of that dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridgie_cat Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 great topic :) some really good points to think on for those of us looking at importing bloodlines in one form or another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aziah Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 ...and let's not forget the often common occurrence of adult dogs and bitches becoming sterile after crossing the equator. It happens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 ...and let's not forget the often common occurrence of adult dogs and bitches becoming sterile after crossing the equator. It happens! Oh so true. +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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