Pippa Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I am not sure we are talking about the same dogs. Australian Cobberdogs aren't an oddle. Yes they had in their beginnings Labradors and Poodles but they have come a long way since then. They aren't a first cross so they can't be compared to first crosses. I spent some time with them in Europe and they were very laid back and their temperament was amazing and I think they will suit my family. According to this they are labradoodles with a different name. http://www.the-australian-cobberdog.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I think Steve has fairly clearly explained the difference between genuine Cobberdogs and random labradoodles. The Cobberdog people appear to be doing everything right in developing their new breed so what's the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog_fan Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 I am not sure we are talking about the same dogs. Australian Cobberdogs aren't an oddle. Yes they had in their beginnings Labradors and Poodles but they have come a long way since then. They aren't a first cross so they can't be compared to first crosses. I spent some time with them in Europe and they were very laid back and their temperament was amazing and I think they will suit my family. According to this they are labradoodles with a different name. http://www.the-australian-cobberdog.com/ Then that site would be wrong. Not every Web site has accurate information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) I am not sure we are talking about the same dogs. Australian Cobberdogs aren't an oddle. Yes they had in their beginnings Labradors and Poodles but they have come a long way since then. They aren't a first cross so they can't be compared to first crosses. I spent some time with them in Europe and they were very laid back and their temperament was amazing and I think they will suit my family. According to this they are labradoodles with a different name. http://www.the-austr...-cobberdog.com/ As if we didnt all know the issue has been for quite some time that a labradoodle was anything from an F1 cross to something that was multi generational and multi generational with a view to a new breed. We could clearly see the difference between a labradoodle which is an F1 cross , a multi generational labradoodle which had not been selected for the development of a breed , Australian Labradoodles which had been registered with various registries and those which were applying to join us - back then they were called Authentic Australian Labradoodle - which had different infusions and had been selected for certain traits and qualities. Their dogs were not eligible for registration with Labradoodle registries because it was a different gene pool . The major condition the MDBA placed on them which we needed to have changed was their name so the public could easily see the difference. . They have been hip and elbow scoring and testing for 20 plus genetic disorders - they are every bit as dedicated to the betterment of their breed and future generations,not just the litter on the ground as any pure bred breeders I have ever met. I have to admit I didnt expect they would change the name so easily because there had been a lot of marketing world wide promoting the labradoodle but they gave the name up in a heart beat and decided on this new name. So the website Pippa referenced is right - they were previously known as Authentic Australian Labradoodles but they were and are very far removed from a lab cross poodle and had many other breeds infused - Sheridan could just as easily name two other breeds which were used in the recipe to advise someone as she did with different results - which is why they are now called Australian Cobberdogs. Some people will believe breeds in development are cross breeds until the day after they are accepted as a breed by the ANKC and that the breeders should be beaten,humiliated and treated as if they are doing some terrible things for the 15 plus years they need to stick it out to get to be accepted. We happen to believe that what we are doing is better for the dogs,the breeds and the breeders,owners and the community as the registry is kept by a third party arms length registry rather than a breed registry , with rules and regs for their members while they wait out their 15 years to get to the criteria for recognition. We get to have their breed standards analysed by experts to be sure they don't leave wide open doors for breeding to extremes, we can see what the test results are and if anything turns up in the gene pool the breeders need to take action on along the way we can see it and advise them. Edited April 12, 2015 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DobieMum Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 (edited) Sorry didn't feel right Edited April 12, 2015 by DobieMum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I wonder how much input Rutland Manor, original breeder of these dogs, who had more than several mentions by the RSPCA, and many world wide complaints from buyers, has into this new dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 I wonder how much input Rutland Manor, original breeder of these dogs This is what the original breeder of these dogs thinks. He's sorry. http://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/nov/13/inventors-idea-regret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 He's not the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I am not sure we are talking about the same dogs. Australian Cobberdogs aren't an oddle. Yes they had in their beginnings Labradors and Poodles but they have come a long way since then. They aren't a first cross so they can't be compared to first crosses. I spent some time with them in Europe and they were very laid back and their temperament was amazing and I think they will suit my family. According to this they are labradoodles with a different name. http://www.the-australian-cobberdog.com/ Then that site would be wrong. Not every Web site has accurate information. Looks like the original genuine website to me. They are saying it is anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaCharlie Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I have met Australian Cobberdogs and they are lovely dogs. They are very human focused, smart, their coat stays remarkably clean and they don't shed. This breed will in all likelihood be my next dog. It is a good thing that people are breeding a dog that is a new breed. It doesn't hurt any breed or breeder currently breeding. I would rather support breeders who are breeding towards a breed standard rather than breeding first crosses. Puppy buyers will get a pedigree of the pup's lineage with DNA test results. That is a good thing. Have a look at lagottos. Correct me if I am wrong but one of the primary goals for the cobber dog breed is to make useful, non-shedding service and assistant dogs. A friend of mine relies heavily (literally) on her assistant dog to assist her in getting up off the floor and back into the wheelchair. I highly doubt a lagotto would have the size nor strength to hold the weight of an adult resting on their back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xyz Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I am not sure we are talking about the same dogs. Australian Cobberdogs aren't an oddle. Yes they had in their beginnings Labradors and Poodles but they have come a long way since then. They aren't a first cross so they can't be compared to first crosses. I spent some time with them in Europe and they were very laid back and their temperament was amazing and I think they will suit my family. According to this they are labradoodles with a different name. http://www.the-austr...-cobberdog.com/ As if we didnt all know the issue has been for quite some time that a labradoodle was anything from an F1 cross to something that was multi generational and multi generational with a view to a new breed. We could clearly see the difference between a labradoodle which is an F1 cross , a multi generational labradoodle which had not been selected for the development of a breed , Australian Labradoodles which had been registered with various registries and those which were applying to join us - back then they were called Authentic Australian Labradoodle - which had different infusions and had been selected for certain traits and qualities. Their dogs were not eligible for registration with Labradoodle registries because it was a different gene pool . The major condition the MDBA placed on them which we needed to have changed was their name so the public could easily see the difference. . They have been hip and elbow scoring and testing for 20 plus genetic disorders - they are every bit as dedicated to the betterment of their breed and future generations,not just the litter on the ground as any pure bred breeders I have ever met. I have to admit I didnt expect they would change the name so easily because there had been a lot of marketing world wide promoting the labradoodle but they gave the name up in a heart beat and decided on this new name. So the website Pippa referenced is right - they were previously known as Authentic Australian Labradoodles but they were and are very far removed from a lab cross poodle and had many other breeds infused - Sheridan could just as easily name two other breeds which were used in the recipe to advise someone as she did with different results - which is why they are now called Australian Cobberdogs. Some people will believe breeds in development are cross breeds until the day after they are accepted as a breed by the ANKC and that the breeders should be beaten,humiliated and treated as if they are doing some terrible things for the 15 plus years they need to stick it out to get to be accepted. We happen to believe that what we are doing is better for the dogs,the breeds and the breeders,owners and the community as the registry is kept by a third party arms length registry rather than a breed registry , with rules and regs for their members while they wait out their 15 years to get to the criteria for recognition. We get to have their breed standards analysed by experts to be sure they don't leave wide open doors for breeding to extremes, we can see what the test results are and if anything turns up in the gene pool the breeders need to take action on along the way we can see it and advise them. Where can I see what '20+' genetic disorders these dogs are tested for please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florise Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Where can I see what '20+' genetic disorders these dogs are tested for please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I have met Australian Cobberdogs and they are lovely dogs. They are very human focused, smart, their coat stays remarkably clean and they don't shed. This breed will in all likelihood be my next dog. It is a good thing that people are breeding a dog that is a new breed. It doesn't hurt any breed or breeder currently breeding. I would rather support breeders who are breeding towards a breed standard rather than breeding first crosses. Puppy buyers will get a pedigree of the pup's lineage with DNA test results. That is a good thing. Have a look at lagottos. Correct me if I am wrong but one of the primary goals for the cobber dog breed is to make useful, non-shedding service and assistant dogs. A friend of mine relies heavily (literally) on her assistant dog to assist her in getting up off the floor and back into the wheelchair. I highly doubt a lagotto would have the size nor strength to hold the weight of an adult resting on their back. What, so they've made up some nonsense about service dogs because the oodle has no actual function? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I wonder how much input Rutland Manor, original breeder of these dogs This is what the original breeder of these dogs thinks. He's sorry. http://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/nov/13/inventors-idea-regret Same Rutland Manor lady involved but I can't remember her name sorry The 'cobberdog' name gives me the heebies :laugh: I don't know anything about developing breeds but isn't this the way it is done? Apologies if that's a dim question, not my field of expertise obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dory the Doted One Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I find 'Cobberdog' a detestable name also, seriously awful. Good thing they don't market it on name only. As to the rest of the objections to them, I don't know enough to comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) Where can I see what '20+' genetic disorders these dogs are tested for please? I rarely come here these days so if you have any questions you are probably better off to contact us privately if you want it answered quickly. I said that the breeders have been testing for 20 plus genetic conditions I don't have the energy to retype them so Ive attached a test result sheet for you to see what they have been testing for and some still are but recently we have been doing a lot of work with a genetics lab and some tests have been taken out and some have been swapped due to updated information. The current list of MANDATORY tests required for all breeding Australian Cobberdogs is listed on our website – they are Degenerative Myelopathy, Centronuclear Myopathy, Narcolepsy, Cystinuria, Exercise Induced Collapse, Myotubular Myopathy X Linked, Progressive Rod Cone Degeneration-prcd-PRA, Pyruvate Kinase Deficiency, Skeletal Dysplasia, Phosphofructokinase Deficiency, Neonatal Encephalopathy, von Willebrand's Disease Type 1, Cone Rod Dystrophy, Globoid Cell Leuckodystrophy, Mucopolysaccharodosis Edited April 16, 2015 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I have met Australian Cobberdogs and they are lovely dogs. They are very human focused, smart, their coat stays remarkably clean and they don't shed. This breed will in all likelihood be my next dog. It is a good thing that people are breeding a dog that is a new breed. It doesn't hurt any breed or breeder currently breeding. I would rather support breeders who are breeding towards a breed standard rather than breeding first crosses. Puppy buyers will get a pedigree of the pup's lineage with DNA test results. That is a good thing. Have a look at lagottos. Correct me if I am wrong but one of the primary goals for the cobber dog breed is to make useful, non-shedding service and assistant dogs. A friend of mine relies heavily (literally) on her assistant dog to assist her in getting up off the floor and back into the wheelchair. I highly doubt a lagotto would have the size nor strength to hold the weight of an adult resting on their back. What, so they've made up some nonsense about service dogs because the oodle has no actual function? I don't see the problem with developing a breed with the specific aim of assistance/therapy work. We know this is valuable work for dogs and there are no existing breeds specifically bred for a temperament suitable to this work as far as I am aware. The only wide spread specifically bred assistance dogs that I know of are Guide/Seeing Eye Dog Labradors and that is not to say that is the intention of the Labrador breed. As mentioned previously in the thread they are actually a retriever, some of which just happens to have proven effective in assistance dog work. Having said that, they are a large dog that sheds so are not suitable in all assistance or therapy situations. Although the "inventor" of the original Labradoodles for Guide Dogs does now say he regrets it, from what I've read that is because of the flow on effect it had to people randomly cross breeding all sorts of other dogs with poodles, making up names and claims and cashing in, NOT because the initial idea of the development of a non-shedding alternative to Labs was a bad one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akayla Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 People are going to create new breeds. So long as they are doing it ethically and honestly I don't see an issue. In fact the concept of having an outside body keeps tabs is a great one as many developing breeds have issues with people lying. I have met both kinds of people in developing breeds. Those that lie, lie,, lie to sell regardless of the outcome for the poor dog and then there are those that are doing it right. Its actually pretty sad seeing the way people treat them. They behave no different than those with registered breeding dogs. Id rather judge on their deeds. Admittedly oodles and cobberdogs make me flinch at the name but if someone is out there going about things the right way then what's the problem? I will reserve judgement. See what they do. I do know of another "breeder" who lies through their teeth and bad mouths all other dogs just to sell. They claim they are developing a breed but so far their actions have said they care more about status and money. Breeders like that I wont support. My two cents anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 A genuine question... given I know nothing about developing a new breed. Is the aim to develop a standard re certain conformation requirements? And for that conformation to be assessed by an independent 'judge' at a public dog show? Same as for the already established breeds. My question is when & how do the developers of new breeds take part in their own public, independently judged dog shows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 A genuine question... given I know nothing about developing a new breed. Is the aim to develop a standard re certain conformation requirements? And for that conformation to be assessed by an independent 'judge' at a public dog show? Same as for the already established breeds. My question is when & how do the developers of new breeds take part in their own public, independently judged dog shows? There have already been some independent shows for this breed , they have to present a breed standard and their goals for the breed and they work toward that .In order to reach the criteria as a breed in its own right they have to have a certain number of fertile dogs which are judged to be within the breed standard . They are right now developing their judges training scheme and the parent club grades dogs electronically [video and photos] to help breeders select dogs for their breeding program that are closest to the breed standard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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