CountryGirl Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Sometimes I think if you make ethical and responsible breeders too difficult to find, people new to the world of purebred dogs are more likely to choose a BYB. IMO, you can advertise on Gumtree and still be an ethical breeder, the two aren't mutually exclusive. Maybe Gumtree could set out some requirements ? It does. Sadly the rules it has are not actually applied to stop dodgy ads...including idiots studding out their "rare blue stiffies (no papers)" I kid you not. I report as many dodgy ads as I can but the people just re-jig the ad to "comply" with the rules. I've even seen a lot of BYBs claiming to be "Registered" breeders - there's no requirement for the ad to include the breeder's credentials if they select "registered" breeder. Why not? I know a lot of rescue people call it Scumtree. It's a great market place for the BYB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryGirl Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Just because the dogs have main registration doesn't mean the breeder is a member or registered with the CC and has to register the pups and once you own a dog you can breed if you want whether it has limited or papers or not. Yes - which is why some ANKC registered breeders are desexing their Limited Register pups before they leave (especially if they have a breed likely to be farmed or BYB or cross-bred. Which presents problems for purchasers wanting dogs for performance events as well as pets and/or concerned about the possible impact of early desexing. And yet the only guarantee that a pedigree dog isn't going to be used for unscrupulous breeding is de-sexing prior to sale. I'd love to see more Registered breeders doing just that. How else do we stop BYBs and puppy mills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stressmagnet Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 (edited) ... It does. Sadly the rules it has are not actually applied to stop dodgy ads...including idiots studding out their "rare blue stiffies (no papers)" I kid you not. ... Sorry to derail but PLEASE do not hand me such good material... As in: ''Not so rare in my lifetime' :D Edited April 3, 2015 by Stressmagnet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I have no issues with people posting on Gumtree - it is the modern classifieds as opposed to the back of the newspaper. In any event - Gumtree have a lot of rules around posting animals for sale - https://help.gumtree.com.au/knowledgebase.php?article=91 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Sometimes I think if you make ethical and responsible breeders too difficult to find, people new to the world of purebred dogs are more likely to choose a BYB. IMO, you can advertise on Gumtree and still be an ethical breeder, the two aren't mutually exclusive. Maybe Gumtree could set out some requirements ? It does. Sadly the rules it has are not actually applied to stop dodgy ads...including idiots studding out their "rare blue stiffies (no papers)" I kid you not. I report as many dodgy ads as I can but the people just re-jig the ad to "comply" with the rules. I've even seen a lot of BYBs claiming to be "Registered" breeders - there's no requirement for the ad to include the breeder's credentials if they select "registered" breeder. Why not? I know a lot of rescue people call it Scumtree. It's a great market place for the BYB. Its also a great place for the ANKC registered hobby breeders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryGirl Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I have no issues with people posting on Gumtree - it is the modern classifieds as opposed to the back of the newspaper. In any event - Gumtree have a lot of rules around posting animals for sale - https://help.gumtree.com.au/knowledgebase.php?article=91 Danois - nobody actually enforces these 'rules' on GT. That's my issue with it. If a breeder advertises as "registered" then it follows that the ad needs to provide evidence of said registration. So many breeders claiming to be "registered" are not actually KC registered at all. Some have membership of dodgy "wannabe" registration bodies. Others are just lying. There's nothing to stop them. The better alternative would be for sites such as Gumtree to insist on ONLY Registered breeders (for all types of species, not just dogs) to advertise their animals...and that evidence of registration be provided and all ads moderated for approval. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 (edited) I have no issues with people posting on Gumtree - it is the modern classifieds as opposed to the back of the newspaper. In any event - Gumtree have a lot of rules around posting animals for sale - https://help.gumtree....php?article=91 Danois - nobody actually enforces these 'rules' on GT. That's my issue with it. If a breeder advertises as "registered" then it follows that the ad needs to provide evidence of said registration. So many breeders claiming to be "registered" are not actually KC registered at all. Some have membership of dodgy "wannabe" registration bodies. Others are just lying. There's nothing to stop them. The better alternative would be for sites such as Gumtree to insist on ONLY Registered breeders (for all types of species, not just dogs) to advertise their animals...and that evidence of registration be provided and all ads moderated for approval. People are registered with a heap of different registering bodies including the local councils - just because you assume registered means only ANKC registered doesn't make it so.Its not up to them to determine whether the people advertising are not dodgy ,they are a classified site not the dog police or that all breeders need to be clones or members of one group that some one thinks should be the only source for puppies. This is still a free country and people get to be registered with groups other than the one you like and choose to buy from places other than an ANKC registered breeder. If we keep being told where we can advertise and demanding only those who have some special credential a minority group approve of the alternative is dumping them in a pound or pet shop or bumping them off. Troy has decided only ANKC registered breeders can advertise here but there are not too many others that have gone that way - so should we ban the rest from advertising because they have opted to include all breeders? Bit unrealistic. Edited April 3, 2015 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryGirl Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 So it seems like some of the comments suggest that at least some DOLers don't mind BYBs and don't mind them having a fairly decent level of exposure in the market place? I didn't realise that would be the case in a community such as this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 So it seems like some of the comments suggest that at least some DOLers don't mind BYBs and don't mind them having a fairly decent level of exposure in the market place? I didn't realise that would be the case in a community such as this one. Now how did you get to that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbath Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 So it seems like some of the comments suggest that at least some DOLers don't mind BYBs and don't mind them having a fairly decent level of exposure in the market place? I didn't realise that would be the case in a community such as this one. I can't see that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 So it seems like some of the comments suggest that at least some DOLers don't mind BYBs and don't mind them having a fairly decent level of exposure in the market place? I didn't realise that would be the case in a community such as this one. I must have missed something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stressmagnet Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taliecat Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Just went through the whole thread again and I can't see how anyone has supported BYB. Perhaps there is a misunderstanding about other registries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jemmy Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I don't see anyone supporting BYB. The point is registered breeders advertise on Gumtree as well... A blanket ban on pet advertisements would not only penalise the breeders we support, but in some cases make it harder for a first time puppy buyer to find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryGirl Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 (edited) So there are legitimate Registers other than the Kennel Clubs and working breed clubs? Which ones would they be? The AAPDB? The Australian Bull Arab Club? I didn't think they were legitimate? They might "look" legitimate to the average puppy buyer...but are they? ETA - what about the "American Bulldog" -is that also a legitimate recognised breed in Australia now? Irondog claims to be the "original" registry... Edited April 3, 2015 by CountryGirl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 I haven't linked the Care2 petition in case I violate DOL rules, but a petition has been started to stop the sale of animals on Gumtree. People may be interested to sign. No I am not going to sign it. Yet another thing punishing the people doing the right thing. One of my dogs has a great home, found through Gumtree. It is not the advertising sites fault that some people don't do the right thing by their pet and vet the potential new owners properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taliecat Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 So there are legitimate Registers other than the Kennel Clubs and working breed clubs? Which ones would they be? The AAPDB? The Australian Bull Arab Club? I didn't think they were legitimate? They might "look" legitimate to the average puppy buyer...but are they? ETA - what about the "American Bulldog" -is that also a legitimate recognised breed in Australia now? Irondog claims to be the "original" registry... There is a bullarab registry that's working on getting the breed officially recognised. I believe there is also one for Bosdogs and American Bulldogs. There needs to be a recorded history, pedigree and standard for developing breeds or breeds not yet recognised by the ANKC in my understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryGirl Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 Rebanne - if it were just a few dodgy breeders selling just a few poorly-bred animals I wouldn't have so much opposition to this sort of advertising. But it's not. The majority of ads I see for animals on sites like Gumtree are from BYBs and they're breeding for money. What other reason is there to breed crosses such as "Cavoodles" or so-called purebreds like "American Bulldogs" for example? Can they be exhibited? Are they working dogs? This just "legitimises" in the minds of many, the backyard breeding trade...making it more than acceptable as a way of making a living...just like pups in pet shop windows...just like pups in baskets at markets...I find it disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 So there are legitimate Registers other than the Kennel Clubs and working breed clubs? Which ones would they be? The AAPDB? The Australian Bull Arab Club? I didn't think they were legitimate? They might "look" legitimate to the average puppy buyer...but are they? ETA - what about the "American Bulldog" -is that also a legitimate recognised breed in Australia now? Irondog claims to be the "original" registry... Dogs dont have to be a recognised breed to utilise a stud registry which isn't ANKC - the Mini foxies for example have a very legitimate stud registry which will never be recognised as a breed by the ANKC. Just because you may not see any other stud registry as legitimate or any breed that isnt recognised as worthy it doesn't mean that they are not - also in some states its the law for a breeder to be registered as a breeder with their local council. They are in fact registered breeders. The AAPDB register breeders but not dogs. The MDBA registers breeder members and some of their members dogs including some which are not yet recognised as breeds yet but which the breeders are developing. these are not BYB and test their dogs more than most and comply with codes and regs. When gumtree or anyone else asks - are you a registered breeder then if someone is saying yes they are - its no method of determining who they may be registered with. If you mean to advise people to only purchase dogs from ANKC registered breeders who are breeding recognised breeds then thats exactly what you need to say because there are heaps of orgs which register breeders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountryGirl Posted April 3, 2015 Share Posted April 3, 2015 So there are legitimate Registers other than the Kennel Clubs and working breed clubs? Which ones would they be? The AAPDB? The Australian Bull Arab Club? I didn't think they were legitimate? They might "look" legitimate to the average puppy buyer...but are they? ETA - what about the "American Bulldog" -is that also a legitimate recognised breed in Australia now? Irondog claims to be the "original" registry... There is a bullarab registry that's working on getting the breed officially recognised. I believe there is also one for Bosdogs and American Bulldogs. There needs to be a recorded history, pedigree and standard for developing breeds or breeds not yet recognised by the ANKC in my understanding. I'm still confused. Are these organisations held in similar esteem to the ANKC affiliated clubs and the working breed clubs? What about the AAPDB - the body that welcomes pet shop owners as members too? Does this mean that the ANKC isn't the benchmark for registered breeders/exhibitors any more? How many of these organisations organise/host dog shows for conformation? Do they have similar championship/point score requirements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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