Greyhound Carcasses Found In Bundaberg Bushland

[Rebanne]

I agree, a minority would try to operate underground, but I don't for a minute believe that without major track stadiums and television coverage and government backing, that the underground could ever thrive and produce the numbers of animals as it does for the public arena.

There are too many bred for them all, or even a reasonable percentage, to ever be rehomed.

I agree with Gruf on both counts.

Will also point out that, like other dogs, there have been plenty of laws made that have not been enforced. Enforce those laws they do have and new laws might not be needed.

Exactly, except I would like to see the owners of the dogs be made accountable for their lives after racing and ways found to be able to do that.

As far as I know it already happens in Vic. But I also agree with Wreckit, why just one breed?

[m-j]

oops double post

Edited April 5, 2015 by m-j

[m-j]

Why should it just be Greyhound owners and trainers that are singles out and held accountable for a dogs life ?

Because they are the ones that choose to purchase the dog, nobody forced them to do it. As I said bookies and the Tab could help too as they are making money from the owners efforts to put them on the track so they can conduct their business.

[m-j]

I agree, a minority would try to operate underground, but I don't for a minute believe that without major track stadiums and television coverage and government backing, that the underground could ever thrive and produce the numbers of animals as it does for the public arena.

There are too many bred for them all, or even a reasonable percentage, to ever be rehomed.

I agree with Gruf on both counts.

Will also point out that, like other dogs, there have been plenty of laws made that have not been enforced. Enforce those laws they do have and new laws might not be needed.

Exactly, except I would like to see the owners of the dogs be made accountable for their lives after racing and ways found to be able to do that.

As far as I know it already happens in Vic. But I also agree with Wreckit, why just one breed?

I thought WW was referring to racing if WW was referring all dog owners as I said great clean out the pounds too.

Yes the law is there but I have first hand experience of that not happening, When I thought I needed to put the dog into my name to rehome it, the person at GRV I talked to told me it didn't need to be and the dog would crossed of the racing register end of story, no more paper trail. I could have been feeding him a porky, this is one reason why it needs to be policed.

[Stressmagnet]

Could one of you who are posting so knowledgably - please help this idiot out with an explanation? I'm not up on the history.

Why is GAP and the other greyhound rescues so mistrusted and hated by trainers and greyhound breeders??

[Maddy]

You can, however, introduce new rules to your association that members must abide by.

As I mentioned previously, it is not against the law to shoot a greyhound but it is against Greyhounds Australasia rules and the consequences can be very serious.

What is needed (for the association) is an independent body to oversee disciplinary processes- people who do not profit from the industry in any way.

Yes to this. Clearly defined ethical guidelines that members of an association must follow. With real monitoring & real consequences for breaches. Good, too, the recommendation about independent overseeing.

Certain actions may not be unlawful, but according to the agreed-on values of an association, they are not tolerated when done by its members. Which is why I've been trying to find a clear set of ethical guidelines set down by the greyhound racing clubs in the eastern states. I have found 'committees' charged with ethical scrutiny. But I'm trying to find 'scrutiny' of precisely what. Does anyone know?

Any such ethical guidelines for greyhound racing will need to take into consideration, the changing public expectations about how dogs should be treated. After all, the continuance of greyhound racing is linked with public support. There's been changes over recent decades in how police & military dogs are raised and dealt with. Even tho' they're 'working dogs', they now fit into the 'dog as companion' value.

You can introduce laws and guidelines prohibiting dogs being put down by anyone but a vet but what of the one that's living on a property 100 ks away from a vet which breaks its back, gets hit by a horse or a car and needs to be dealt with so already you have to have exemptions.Current laws with companion animals allow a vet or someone experienced in euthanasia to do the job so that gives permission to using a shooter . Then if you try to make rules about not doing anything other than rehoming them - there is immediately a whole bunch of what ifs too. What if the dog is not suitable for being rehomed for a variety of reasons ,what if you don't have the resources to keep the animal in optimal health etc?

As I mentioned further back, state amendments cover the destruction of greyhounds for humane reasons by the owner, trainer or any other person responsible for the care of the dog. If a dog has to be disposed of under those rules, they still have certain obligations to fulfill (such as forms to lodge). Those amendments are in place because association rules cannot put the person at risk of breaching state or federal laws (in this case, welfare legislation). The GAR are actually incredibly thorough, the problem is that they cost money to enforce.

Regarding animals assessed as unsuitable for rehoming, the same rules should still apply. Once the dog has been deemed unsuitable by an independent (but qualified) person, the dog can be PTS and when its retirement form is turned in, require that the assessor sign to confirm that the dog could not be placed in a pet home. Pretty simple.

On the last bolded point.. besides cases of legitimate hardship (where evidence is provided), I can't see why someone would suddenly not be able to care for one particular dog. When you take animals on, you take on the financial responsibility to care for them. Currently, it's entirely acceptable for people (not just greyhound trainers/owners but pet owners, too) to shirk those responsibilities whenever it suits them. Pet owners are considerably harder to police but the greyhound racing industry is actually in a position where it can bring about real change.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Maddy

[disintegratus]

I have a genuine question. If registration costs are raised, what makes people think that trainers will choose to rehome or place their dogs into rehoming programs rather than opt to euth as many do now?

There are some that use industry funded programs or rehome privately but I've heard first hand what trainers think of GAP and other rescues and it's not positive.

Yes I was at the vet about 3 months ago and a greyhound breeder bought in 8 dogs to be PTS and said they would prefer to do that than go anywhere near rescue.Turns out they also breed GSD and do the same with their ex breeders rather than have any attention on them for not keeping them.

It happens all the time. The two biggest rescues in NSW, not GAP, are loathed by a large majority of trainers.

They are viewed as the enemy and with suspicion and rightly so by owners and trainers.

not so much a lot of the rescues available, but I would personally prefer any one of my healthy (and otherwise perfectly rehomable)pet dogs be euthanased than take them to the RSPCA...

[Maddy]

Could one of you who are posting so knowledgably - please help this idiot out with an explanation? I'm not up on the history.

Why is GAP and the other greyhound rescues so mistrusted and hated by trainers and greyhound breeders??

Because certain nutjob "rescue" groups give all of rescue a bad name by encouraging their supporters to harass trainers, spreading misinformation about the industry and treating everyone involved in the industry as if they were all monsters. It got so bad that even just being neutral on the racing issue is enough to get you abusive messages and death threats.

If you were a greyhound trainer, would you invite someone onto your property to collect a dog if you knew they were probably packing a hidden camera and preparing resources to later raid your kennels and/or home?

You can't call someone a murdering monster and then expect them to be willing to work with you.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Maddy

[WreckitWhippet]

Could one of you who are posting so knowledgably - please help this idiot out with an explanation? I'm not up on the history.

Why is GAP and the other greyhound rescues so mistrusted and hated by trainers and greyhound breeders??

Because certain nutjob "rescue" groups give all of rescue a bad name by encouraging their supporters to harass trainers, spreading misinformation about the industry and treating everyone involved in the industry as if they were all monsters. It got so bad that even just being neutral on the racing issue is enough to get you abusive messages and death threats.

If you were a greyhound trainer, would you invite someone onto your property to collect a dog if you knew they were probably packing a hidden camera and preparing resources to later raid your kennels and/or home?

You can't call someone a murdering monster and then expect them to be willing to work with you.

The abuse I copped was horrendous, despite the fact that I rehomed responsibly and had/have contributed to Greyhound rescue with $, food and donations for years.

[*kirty*]

I believe the rules regarding breeding and raising need to change. You should have to jump through hoops to breed a litter of Greyhounds - explain why the breeding is worthwhile, etc. And then the pups should be socialised with people, dogs, cats, etc. You would have less puppies born, and the puppies would then be much more adoptable. Trying to rehome 12,000 unsocialised large adult dogs every year is trying to close the gate after the horse has bolted.

[labadore]

Could one of you who are posting so knowledgably - please help this idiot out with an explanation? I'm not up on the history.

Why is GAP and the other greyhound rescues so mistrusted and hated by trainers and greyhound breeders??

Because certain nutjob "rescue" groups give all of rescue a bad name by encouraging their supporters to harass trainers, spreading misinformation about the industry and treating everyone involved in the industry as if they were all monsters. It got so bad that even just being neutral on the racing issue is enough to get you abusive messages and death threats.

If you were a greyhound trainer, would you invite someone onto your property to collect a dog if you knew they were probably packing a hidden camera and preparing resources to later raid your kennels and/or home?

You can't call someone a murdering monster and then expect them to be willing to work with you.

The abuse I copped was horrendous, despite the fact that I rehomed responsibly and had/have contributed to Greyhound rescue with $, food and donations for years.

Was your experience with GAP or some other greyhound rescue. I would have thought that with GAP being a greyhound racing industry initiative that they would receive the majority of greyhounds to be rehomed from owners/trainers as the owners/trainers would be more comfortable dealing with an adoption program initiated by their own industry.

[Rebanne]

I believe the rules regarding breeding and raising need to change. You should have to jump through hoops to breed a litter of Greyhounds - explain why the breeding is worthwhile, etc. And then the pups should be socialised with people, dogs, cats, etc. You would have less puppies born, and the puppies would then be much more adoptable. Trying to rehome 12,000 unsocialised large adult dogs every year is trying to close the gate after the horse has bolted.

But there aren't 12,000 homes available every year for one breed no matter how well socialised they are.

[WreckitWhippet]

Could one of you who are posting so knowledgably - please help this idiot out with an explanation? I'm not up on the history.

Why is GAP and the other greyhound rescues so mistrusted and hated by trainers and greyhound breeders??

Because certain nutjob "rescue" groups give all of rescue a bad name by encouraging their supporters to harass trainers, spreading misinformation about the industry and treating everyone involved in the industry as if they were all monsters. It got so bad that even just being neutral on the racing issue is enough to get you abusive messages and death threats.

If you were a greyhound trainer, would you invite someone onto your property to collect a dog if you knew they were probably packing a hidden camera and preparing resources to later raid your kennels and/or home?

You can't call someone a murdering monster and then expect them to be willing to work with you.

The abuse I copped was horrendous, despite the fact that I rehomed responsibly and had/have contributed to Greyhound rescue with $, food and donations for years.

Was your experience with GAP or some other greyhound rescue. I would have thought that with GAP being a greyhound racing industry initiative that they would receive the majority of greyhounds to be rehomed from owners/trainers as the owners/trainers would be more comfortable dealing with an adoption program initiated by their own industry.

GAP are lovely to deal with, I did have a dog on the GAP list but rehomed before a place became available.

One particular Sydney based rescue can only be described as absolute nut jobs with many followers with many screws loose

[HazyWal]

Could one of you who are posting so knowledgably - please help this idiot out with an explanation? I'm not up on the history.

Why is GAP and the other greyhound rescues so mistrusted and hated by trainers and greyhound breeders??

Because certain nutjob "rescue" groups give all of rescue a bad name by encouraging their supporters to harass trainers, spreading misinformation about the industry and treating everyone involved in the industry as if they were all monsters. It got so bad that even just being neutral on the racing issue is enough to get you abusive messages and death threats.

If you were a greyhound trainer, would you invite someone onto your property to collect a dog if you knew they were probably packing a hidden camera and preparing resources to later raid your kennels and/or home?

You can't call someone a murdering monster and then expect them to be willing to work with you.

The abuse I copped was horrendous, despite the fact that I rehomed responsibly and had/have contributed to Greyhound rescue with $, food and donations for years.

Was your experience with GAP or some other greyhound rescue. I would have thought that with GAP being a greyhound racing industry initiative that they would receive the majority of greyhounds to be rehomed from owners/trainers as the owners/trainers would be more comfortable dealing with an adoption program initiated by their own industry.

GAP are lovely to deal with, I did have a dog on the GAP list but rehomed before a place became available.

One particular Sydney based rescue can only be described as absolute nut jobs with many followers with many screws loose

God yes and the disciples follow along blindly in some sort of trance. Don't ever question them though or you will be attacked, been there done that.

[Stressmagnet]

Thanks folks. Makes a lot more sense now.

If GAP are ok, it is because all greyhound rescues are tarred with the same brush?

[Kirislin]

I believe the rules regarding breeding and raising need to change. You should have to jump through hoops to breed a litter of Greyhounds - explain why the breeding is worthwhile, etc. And then the pups should be socialised with people, dogs, cats, etc. You would have less puppies born, and the puppies would then be much more adoptable. Trying to rehome 12,000 unsocialised large adult dogs every year is trying to close the gate after the horse has bolted.

But there aren't 12,000 homes available every year for one breed no matter how well socialised they are.

The way I understood what Kirty is saying is that there should be alot less greyhounds bred in the first place which I totally agree with.

[Rebanne]

I believe the rules regarding breeding and raising need to change. You should have to jump through hoops to breed a litter of Greyhounds - explain why the breeding is worthwhile, etc. And then the pups should be socialised with people, dogs, cats, etc. You would have less puppies born, and the puppies would then be much more adoptable. Trying to rehome 12,000 unsocialised large adult dogs every year is trying to close the gate after the horse has bolted.

But there aren't 12,000 homes available every year for one breed no matter how well socialised they are.

The way I understood what Kirty is saying is that there should be alot less greyhounds bred in the first place which I totally agree with.

You would come up against restriction of trade if you made things too hard. Dogs are goods after all

[HazyWal]

Thanks folks. Makes a lot more sense now.

If GAP are ok, it is because all greyhound rescues are tarred with the same brush?

GAP are industry funded and have fairly strict testing procedures in place therefore loathed by the "save em all" groups. According to a lot (not all) of the "rescue" groups every single greyhound should be rehomed. This is not only stupid but dangerous, as it is with any breed. When you work hard at promoting a breed that is still not a popular choice for a family pet by any stretch rehoming every grey does the breed no favours at all. They don't see it that way though and god forbid you say otherwise.

[Maddy]

Thanks folks. Makes a lot more sense now.

If GAP are ok, it is because all greyhound rescues are tarred with the same brush?

GAP are industry funded and have fairly strict testing procedures in place therefore loathed by the "save em all" groups. According to a lot (not all) of the "rescue" groups every single greyhound should be rehomed. This is not only stupid but dangerous, as it is with any breed. When you work hard at promoting a breed that is still not a popular choice for a family pet by any stretch rehoming every grey does the breed no favours at all. They don't see it that way though and god forbid you say otherwise.

Oh yes.

There seems to be a very clear divide in greyhound rescue- those who are sensible, test the dogs and rehome appropriately and on the other side, those who email death threats to trainers, rehome greyhounds that would kill small dogs and generally damage the reputation of the breed by rehoming anything that moves.

I've been viciously targeted by the latter and I'm a rescuer. I'd hate to think how they treat trainers or breeders.

[Little Gifts]

I'm speculating that one reason for the distrust between both sides is that rescue feels like they are cleaning up someone else's mess without all the prize money and glory and so would be quick to want to identify breeders, trainers or owners neglecting their dogs and dumping unwanted ones on an already over burdened system that runs on the smell of oily rag carrying volunteers. Breeders, trainers and owners know they are being judged even when trying to do what they feel is the right thing by those dogs. There is nothing circular about the process so there is no reflection or closure. Different values and ethics and different end results wanted from both sides.