Greyhound Carcasses Found In Bundaberg Bushland

[Steve]

Thanks.

[Greyt]

@Steve,

The nexus between gambling and the sport is that the TAB collects 16-20% commission on every bet. In full year 2013, GRNSW received some $31M in distributions (but they believe that they should have received $45M based on their share of gambling revenue vs horse racing and trots. They also received close to $10M based on bookie turnover.

As well, they receive various other, not insignificant funds from Govt such as money for capital works and money to prop up country races etc.

Without all of the money swirling around you don't have an industry the size of the one we have in Australia.

[WreckitWhippet]

Without the industry you don't have all of that gambling and the revenue that goes to Government, I doubt they are going to give that up without a fight, regardless of public outrage.

I don't think unwanted dogs euth'd and buried will generate the mass outrage and disgust that was felt regarding the live baiting( but that's old news now), when the fact is that many people feel it's ok to dump, PTS or giveaway a dog that is unwanted for whatever reason.

Country folk are still disposing of unwanted working dogs, average Joe's dogs are dumped or go uncollected in pounds and apart from the avid dog lovers, on the whole do Australians even blink when the figures are released regarding the number of pets that are destroyed each year.

If they don't care much about pets and their plight, why would they care enough to do something about the Greyhounds ?

[melzawelza]

I don't know where this idea that Australians don't care about pets being killed in pounds is coming from. There was such enormous public outcry as to the Lost Dogs Home kill stats in Victoria that the Government announced a formal inquiry into them, their CEO and Shelter Manager were sacked and the person that has been put in their place has already started implementing life saving strategies.

Similarly, Team Dog has run campaigns for individual dogs in shelters and for shelters themselves to improve their practices (when collaborative efforts have been ignored) and seen thousands upon thousands of people respond, resulting in great outcomes for the animals.

Five or ten years ago I would agree with you, but there is huge scrutiny of shelters and of euthanasia of healthy and treatable pets around now. Hence why the Greyhound industry is getting so much scrutiny now after so many years of doing exactly what they've been doing.

[Steve]

I agree with WW - its easy to think the majority of people feel some perceived outrage when they are not when the noisy minority and emotions are bubbling but cant see its going to have much affect over all for the outside world.

Some people I spoke with yesterday couldn't see the issue and asked what these "do gooders" wanted people to do with dead dog bodies

The comment was if every dog body was buried in a new place with a nice little head stone would that make any difference for them

To them it was "so what they put lots of dead dogs in one spot [Cessnock]" .They thought it was stupid to put a bunch of them in a public access area just on the ground but were totally un moved by the idea that there were a lot of them in one place - made more sense to them to do that than scatter them one at a time all over the place . Did they care if the industry kills a lot that dont win races ? Not a bit as long as it was done without the dog suffering.

Easy to think public outrage is huge but Im not sure it is.

My link

[labadore]

I agree with WW - its easy to think the majority of people feel some perceived outrage when they are not when the noisy minority and emotions are bubbling but cant see its going to have much affect over all for the outside world.

Some people I spoke with yesterday couldn't see the issue and asked what these "do gooders" wanted people to do with dead dog bodies

The comment was if every dog body was buried in a new place with a nice little head stone would that make any difference for them

To them it was "so what they put lots of dead dogs in one spot [Cessnock]" .They thought it was stupid to put a bunch of them in a public access area just on the ground but were totally un moved by the idea that there were a lot of them in one place - made more sense to them to do that than scatter them one at a time all over the place . Did they care if the industry kills a lot that dont win races ? Not a bit as long as it was done without the dog suffering.

Easy to think public outrage is huge but Im not sure it is.

My link

So you think that the people you spoke to yesterday are representative of the general public, I don't think so. Just like I don't think that the noise is coming from the minority and I do think that majority of people do feel "some perceived outrage" at what goes on in the greyhound racing industry now that these issues are being aired in the public arena and I am sure there will be more and more revelations on the greyhound racing industry. Times they are a changing for animal welfare, thank God and some people will continue to keep their heads in the sand and continue with their outdated beliefs and practices and others will move forward in line with changing community expectations.

[Greyt]

Boards don't get stood down and resign in multiple states, because the governments that provide funding and monopoly legislation approve of the level of governance.

The current enquiries will make recommendations that governments will adopt to reduce over breeding and improve welfare outcomes for dogs.

Corporate Australia now thinks that Greyhound Racing is a dirty word through their almost unanimous withdrawal of sponsorship and the public, ignorant of the poor practices of the industry, are being educated around how despicable some of the practices really are and they want change.

The pollies want the revenue but they also want to be re-elected and to be seen to be doing something given the level of public outrage.

Reading some of the comments in this thread is like looking backwards into a time machine for me. Community attitudes are changing but I guess some people can't see the blindingly obvious.

[Dame Aussie]

As someone who has worked in pounds the idea that the public ( obviously not everyone) don't care is, frankly, BS. The amount of judgement and harassment staff members deal with really suggests otherwise.

[m-j]

Maybe the majority of the general public aren't really concerned about the dog's but they may be concerned as a taxpayer having people who have lost jobs draw on the economy rather than contribute to it. Parents may be concerned about even more people competing with their children for the few jobs out there.

[Steve]

As someone who has worked in pounds the idea that the public ( obviously not everyone) don't care is, frankly, BS. The amount of judgement and harassment staff members deal with really suggests otherwise.

Of course some of the public care, but you dont hear from the ones that dont care enough to think much about it all.

For me I look at a decade plus campaign against petshops and puppy farms and its definite some of the public really care and are very vocal and proactive on it all but the general public still buy puppies from pet shops and puppy farms and commercial breeders flourish - if anything they do better now than they ever did before - very long term you may see some swing so something is done to control it all but for now - a couple of people have been busted using live lures - the industry was as outraged as the general public and have been seen to be doing something to prevent it happening - problem solved.

Mass graves - too many being bred and killed ? They will be seen to be doing something to clean it up so its not seen to be as horrid as it is now. If anything is done as far as legislation its a long long way into the future yet and I believe that outside of the circle we see where we join with people who are more aware and more passionate about dogs and what becomes of them that the rest of the public don't care enough to swing legislation.

[Maddy]

As someone who has worked in pounds the idea that the public ( obviously not everyone) don't care is, frankly, BS. The amount of judgement and harassment staff members deal with really suggests otherwise.

The obvious question here is.. if the majority of people care about dogs, why are pounds dealing with such numbers that they have to kill for "space"?

Down here, pounds are packed with random "staffy" mixes but take a look at any of those FB pet sales groups and every day, someone is advertising yet another litter of them. The tip in Launceston is probably home to the remains of thousands of unwanted bull breed crosses (PTS by the RSPCA and disposed of up there) but no one seems bothered by that.

I have to agree with Steve- the public are interested by scandals but how many of those horrified people will put a bet on or attend the Melbourne Cup? Probably most. Being outraged is trendy, but actually considering the welfare of dogs in a broader sense (without the hype and excitement of dead greyhound treasure hunts) seems beyond the majority. The fact that puppy farmers and backyard breeders continue to do a brisk trade confirms this. The number of backyard breed mutts that end up in pounds (and then dead) confirms this.

You might have the loud minority who do care but their attitudes to welfare are not representative of the majority. For every person who adopts from a shelter, there are several others buying from pet shops or from sites like Gumtree.

I also don't believe it's strictly an issue of education. Down here (with our cat laws), I've seen many people asking for undesexed kittens and mentioning in their ads that they do not welcome suggestions of adopting a desexed kitten from rescue. They know there is an ethical source of cats but would prefer to not only pay someone unethical enough to break cat laws by breeding but likely, they also intend to break those laws themselves.

I'd love to believe otherwise but from what I see, it is what it is.

Reading some of the comments in this thread is like looking backwards into a time machine for me. Community attitudes are changing but I guess some people can't see the blindingly obvious.

Again with the judgements? None of us here have said we support the system or believe it is acceptable. What has been pointed out (again and again and again) is that for the welfare of the dogs currently in the system, whatever happens next must be done with a lot of care and thought to reduce the risks to those dogs as much as possible.

[Steve]

Boards don't get stood down and resign in multiple states, because the governments that provide funding and monopoly legislation approve of the level of governance.

The current enquiries will make recommendations that governments will adopt to reduce over breeding and improve welfare outcomes for dogs.

Corporate Australia now thinks that Greyhound Racing is a dirty word through their almost unanimous withdrawal of sponsorship and the public, ignorant of the poor practices of the industry, are being educated around how despicable some of the practices really are and they want change.

The pollies want the revenue but they also want to be re-elected and to be seen to be doing something given the level of public outrage.

Reading some of the comments in this thread is like looking backwards into a time machine for me. Community attitudes are changing but I guess some people can't see the blindingly obvious.

Sure the public are being educated but they are not just being educated by people who use a few cases to sensationalise via the media.They are also being educated by the response - which to live lures was that this is unacceptable, the people have been punished and steps will be taken to ensure it doesn't happen again. Ordinary everyday members of the public have no reason to continue to be interested about live lures - its not like the industry came out and said they agreed with it and they would continue to use this method to train their dogs.

The finding of mass graves shows that lots are being killed but the public already know lots of dogs are being killed - animal rights and animal welfare have been telling them this for decades.The general public have heard all about piggeries, caged birds, crutching and mulsing,jumping and whipping horses,duck shooting, fox hunting, Roo shooting,deer shooting, abattoir and knackery practices, live animal transport and export etc. They have seen people who call themselves rescuers who hoard animals and keep them in filthy conditions, they have seen show judges of dogs, cats and horses prosecuted for animal cruelty , small breeders and large breeders under the spotlight,accused of all manner of cruelty and neglect including mass graves, and pedigree dogs exposed, the pet shops exposed and accused for a pile of things, including where they buy their puppies from, just before Easter a vet nurse who worked for the RSPCA was found guilty of neglect and cruelty and Im sorry I just dont think that the majority of people care that much about how many greys are bred which wont cut the grade or where they are buried enough for a government to bring in legislation that would adversely affect so many people including them. No one is accusing them of being as bad as puppy farmers "breeding their poor bitches to death" keeping them in filthy conditions, not feeding them well enough, not vetting them, or exercising them, using methods to transport them that are cruel, breeding them with adverse genetic conditions,doping them, inhumanely killing them etc. The dogs they discard are treated well until the day they die.

When you feel passionate about something and you feel that what you are seeing is so horrible you expect that everyone else will see things your way - all you have to do is tell them about what you feel is needing to be changed and of course how could they not agree.

In my opinion,regardless of how I feel about it or how those who care enough to beat their drum want it greyhound racing and betting on greyhound racing is not going to be banned in Australia in the foreseeable future and I think its unrealistic to put energy into fighting for this at this time.At best you may chase off some sponsors but that's a small impact. I think focusing on this and believing that it will happen because of an assumption that the majority of the people who vote and make decisions will agree with you once they are educated and not consider potential unintended consequences that this is the preferable solution is an obstacle in finding viable solutions now today.

That has nothing to do with how much I care or how passionate I am to try to find solutions for the dogs - I just dont agree that the problem is as uncomplicated as some think it is and I don't agree that the solutions that some want to focus on hold the short term answers. I would like the opportunity to discuss other potential actions we might be able to advocate for which are more realistic to help the dogs now without having to wear amour and having to defend myself as if Im condoning the current situation.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Steve

[m-j]

Boards don't get stood down and resign in multiple states, because the governments that provide funding and monopoly legislation approve of the level of governance.

The current enquiries will make recommendations that governments will adopt to reduce over breeding and improve welfare outcomes for dogs.

Corporate Australia now thinks that Greyhound Racing is a dirty word through their almost unanimous withdrawal of sponsorship and the public, ignorant of the poor practices of the industry, are being educated around how despicable some of the practices really are and they want change.

The pollies want the revenue but they also want to be re-elected and to be seen to be doing something given the level of public outrage.

Reading some of the comments in this thread is like looking backwards into a time machine for me. Community attitudes are changing but I guess some people can't see the blindingly obvious.

Sure the public are being educated but they are not just being educated by people who use a few cases to sensationalise via the media.They are also being educated by the response - which to live lures was that this is unacceptable, the people have been punished and steps will be taken to ensure it doesn't happen again. Ordinary everyday members of the public have no reason to continue to be interested about live lures - its not like the industry came out and said they agreed with it and they would continue to use this method to train their dogs.

The finding of mass graves shows that lots are being killed but the public already know lots of dogs are being killed - animal rights and animal welfare have been telling them this for decades.The general public have heard all about piggeries, caged birds, crutching and mulsing,jumping and whipping horses,duck shooting, fox hunting, Roo shooting,deer shooting, abattoir and knackery practices, live animal transport and export etc. They have seen people who call themselves rescuers who hoard animals and keep them in filthy conditions, they have seen show judges of dogs, cats and horses prosecuted for animal cruelty , small breeders and large breeders under the spotlight,accused of all manner of cruelty and neglect including mass graves, and pedigree dogs exposed, the pet shops exposed and accused for a pile of things, including where they buy their puppies from, just before Easter a vet nurse who worked for the RSPCA was found guilty of neglect and cruelty and Im sorry I just dont think that the majority of people care that much about how many greys are bred which wont cut the grade or where they are buried enough for a government to bring in legislation that would adversely affect so many people including them. No one is accusing them of being as bad as puppy farmers "breeding their poor bitches to death" keeping them in filthy conditions, not feeding them well enough, not vetting them, or exercising them, using methods to transport them that are cruel, breeding them with adverse genetic conditions,doping them, inhumanely killing them etc. The dogs they discard are treated well until the day they die.

When you feel passionate about something and you feel that what you are seeing is so horrible you expect that everyone else will see things your way - all you have to do is tell them about what you feel is needing to be changed and of course how could they not agree.

In my opinion,regardless of how I feel about it or how those who care enough to beat their drum want it greyhound racing and betting on greyhound racing is not going to be banned in Australia in the foreseeable future and I think its unrealistic to put energy into fighting for this at this time.At best you may chase off some sponsors but that's a small impact. I think focusing on this and believing that it will happen because of an assumption that the majority of the people who vote and make decisions will agree with you once they are educated and not consider potential unintended consequences that this is the preferable solution is an obstacle in finding viable solutions now today.

That has nothing to do with how much I care or how passionate I am to try to find solutions for the dogs - I just dont agree that the problem is as uncomplicated as some think it is and I don't agree that the solutions that some want to focus on hold the short term answers. I would like the opportunity to discuss other potential actions we might be able to advocate for which are more realistic to help the dogs now without having to wear amour and having to defend myself as if Im condoning the current situation.

Ok fair enough, what do you think could be a viable solution?

Edited April 8, 2015 by m-j

[Greyt]

@ Steve,

It is a social cause that is gathering support, strength and momentum.

If you think in terms of other social causes such as smoking, speeding, drink driving, women rights etc, change has happened over time, not overnight.

Change might be incremental but as support or acceptance of ideas grow, so does the ability of those who are pushing for change, to get more change through. So the baseline of what was once thought of acceptable moves.

That is what is happening here and it is being fueled by increasing knowledge - you have to give props to AA - video of live baiting is much more powerful than a submission to an enquiry or a radio interview or a newspaper piece or as you say, welfare groups telling the relevant governments over and over and over and over - only to be told that the sport has proper governance measures in place... etc

Now, the pollies who didn't want to act in January are being forced to act - that is a by-product of the public outrage.

If they feel that this is a cause that will elevate their standing if they are seen to be tough on the industry, then tough measures will be put in place. The days of self governance for example, may be over in some states.

So the continuum of change is moving in the right direction for those that care about the welfare of greyhounds - some would say it is a momentous time because all of this publicity has given the appetite for change a bigger boost than at anytime in the sports history.

The trajectory this change is on is very similar to the overseas experience, just years behind.

[labadore]

Boards don't get stood down and resign in multiple states, because the governments that provide funding and monopoly legislation approve of the level of governance.

The current enquiries will make recommendations that governments will adopt to reduce over breeding and improve welfare outcomes for dogs.

Corporate Australia now thinks that Greyhound Racing is a dirty word through their almost unanimous withdrawal of sponsorship and the public, ignorant of the poor practices of the industry, are being educated around how despicable some of the practices really are and they want change.

The pollies want the revenue but they also want to be re-elected and to be seen to be doing something given the level of public outrage.

Reading some of the comments in this thread is like looking backwards into a time machine for me. Community attitudes are changing but I guess some people can't see the blindingly obvious.

Sure the public are being educated but they are not just being educated by people who use a few cases to sensationalise via the media.They are also being educated by the response - which to live lures was that this is unacceptable, the people have been punished and steps will be taken to ensure it doesn't happen again. Ordinary everyday members of the public have no reason to continue to be interested about live lures - its not like the industry came out and said they agreed with it and they would continue to use this method to train their dogs.

The finding of mass graves shows that lots are being killed but the public already know lots of dogs are being killed - animal rights and animal welfare have been telling them this for decades.The general public have heard all about piggeries, caged birds, crutching and mulsing,jumping and whipping horses,duck shooting, fox hunting, Roo shooting,deer shooting, abattoir and knackery practices, live animal transport and export etc. They have seen people who call themselves rescuers who hoard animals and keep them in filthy conditions, they have seen show judges of dogs, cats and horses prosecuted for animal cruelty , small breeders and large breeders under the spotlight,accused of all manner of cruelty and neglect including mass graves, and pedigree dogs exposed, the pet shops exposed and accused for a pile of things, including where they buy their puppies from, just before Easter a vet nurse who worked for the RSPCA was found guilty of neglect and cruelty and Im sorry I just dont think that the majority of people care that much about how many greys are bred which wont cut the grade or where they are buried enough for a government to bring in legislation that would adversely affect so many people including them. No one is accusing them of being as bad as puppy farmers "breeding their poor bitches to death" keeping them in filthy conditions, not feeding them well enough, not vetting them, or exercising them, using methods to transport them that are cruel, breeding them with adverse genetic conditions,doping them, inhumanely killing them etc. The dogs they discard are treated well until the day they die.

Actually that is not correct. The 2013 NSW inquiry into the greyhound racing industry received over 2,000 submissions with many concerns over these types of issues. I am sure many of these groups and individuals will also be raising the same issues in this latest NSW Special Commission of Inquiry currently being conducted by Commissioner McHugh. Also, I am not sure if you are aware that NSW is currently undertaking their Five Year Statutory Review of the NSW Greyhound Racing Act 2009. The closing date for submissions from individuals and organisations was originally 31 January 2015, but this was extended to 2 March 2015 after the Four Corners Live Baiting program was aired in February, so between this latest Special Commission of Inquiry and the Five Year Statutory Review of the Greyhound Racing Act 2009, these same concerns and others have been submitted.

Some links that should be checked out to give you and others insight into the Review on the NSW Greyhound Racing Act 2009 and a couple of submissions to get an idea on what issues are being discussed/have been raised in this review:

Govt Discussion Paper for submissions to review of Greyhound Racing Act (GRA)

Law Society Young Lawyers Animal Law Committee Submission to Review of GRA

Australian Veterinary Association Submission to Review of GRA

When you feel passionate about something and you feel that what you are seeing is so horrible you expect that everyone else will see things your way - all you have to do is tell them about what you feel is needing to be changed and of course how could they not agree.

In my opinion,regardless of how I feel about it or how those who care enough to beat their drum want it greyhound racing and betting on greyhound racing is not going to be banned in Australia in the foreseeable future and I think its unrealistic to put energy into fighting for this at this time.At best you may chase off some sponsors but that's a small impact. I think focusing on this and believing that it will happen because of an assumption that the majority of the people who vote and make decisions will agree with you once they are educated and not consider potential unintended consequences that this is the preferable solution is an obstacle in finding viable solutions now today.

How do you think change happens if people don't agitate for change. We all need to take a stand on issues that we feel passionately about and not skulk away quietly because the issue is a difficult one and the chances of all of the changes required happening may be slim. By putting an industry in the spotlight for long enough and constantly chipping away, results can be yielded and progress can be made. Sometimes this is through smaller changes being made initially, followed by more significant changes over time.

That has nothing to do with how much I care or how passionate I am to try to find solutions for the dogs - I just dont agree that the problem is as uncomplicated as some think it is and I don't agree that the solutions that some want to focus on hold the short term answers. I would like the opportunity to discuss other potential actions we might be able to advocate for which are more realistic to help the dogs now without having to wear amour and having to defend myself as if Im condoning the current situation.

Will be interested if anything new comes out of your discussions that hasn't already been raised in the submissions to the 2013 NSW Inquiry, current (2015) Special Commission of Inquiry into the Greyhound Racing Industry and the Five Year Statutory Review of the NSW Greyhound Racing Act 2009

[Steve]

2000 submissions out of a population of how many ? and I've seen all of this play out before with people yelling for what they have decided will be what is best without having the ability to see the multitude of issues they may have missed and things getting progressive worse for the dogs rather than better

If you really think a government is going to put a ceiling on how many they can breed, how many they can kill or whether people can gamble on them you're dreamin.

Years ago I went to a meeting with Clover Moore's people who were already at submission stage to parliment to ban the sale of live animals in pet shops and they didnt even know that Dogs NSW allowed the sale of puppies in pet shops or numerous other things that they should have known could have known to help them if they had of looked outside their animal rights pals they would have known that at the end of the day the people they thought were going to agree with them were in fact against them.

What is best for the dogs is for us all to work together and listen to what others have to say to find realistic solutions which have the best outcome for the dogs but experience tells me there isnt a hope in hell of that happening - so if it makes you feel better ........

[Greyt]

2000 submissions out of a population of how many ? and I've seen all of this play out before with people yelling for what they have decided will be what is best without having the ability to see the multitude of issues they may have missed and things getting progressive worse for the dogs rather than better

If you really think a government is going to put a ceiling on how many they can breed, how many they can kill or whether people can gamble on them you're dreamin.

Years ago I went to a meeting with Clover Moore's people who were already at submission stage to parliment to ban the sale of live animals in pet shops and they didnt even know that Dogs NSW allowed the sale of puppies in pet shops or numerous other things that they should have known could have known to help them if they had of looked outside their animal rights pals they would have known that at the end of the day the people they thought were going to agree with them were in fact against them.

What is best for the dogs is for us all to work together and listen to what others have to say to find realistic solutions which have the best outcome for the dogs but experience tells me there isnt a hope in hell of that happening - so if it makes you feel better ........

This is what the momentum for change looks like...

7 trainers immediately stood down in Queensland;

5 trainers immediately stood down in New South Wales;

10 trainers immediately stood down in Victoria;

Racing Queensland's Chief Integrity Officer stood down;

Greyhound Racing Victoria Chairman resigned;

a further 6 trainers stood down in Queensland;

a further 6 trainers suspended in New South Wales;

a further 5 trainers suspended in Victoria;

70 Greyhound trainers implicated across three states;

high profile members in the industry involved - top trainers and officials;

the board of Greyhound Racing NSW dismissed;

CEO of Greyhound Racing NSW resigned;

the board of Greyhound Racing Victoria resigned;

the Victorian government announced two separate investigations;

NSW launched special commission of inquiry to investigate animal welfare and integrity issues, led by former High Court judge Michael McHugh who will work with the state's police, the RSPCA and the greyhound industry;

a review into the regulation of Queensland Greyhound Racing industry has been established, led by Alan MacSporran QC;

a joint taskforce involving Police and RSPCA Qld are continuing investigations into Greyhound racing in Queensland;

23 more trainers stood down in Queensland bring total to 36 now suspended, with six now issued with life bans;

2 people have been charged with animal cruelty offences in Queensland;

Joint House Parliamentary Inquiry into Tasmania's Greyhound racing industry;

Queensland Racing Minister announces halt to new Logan track pending investigations.

All within a 2 month period.... anyone seen this kind of impetus in their lifetime before within the same short period?

In the absence of people listening to each other and working together, decisions are about to be made by those with the power to make them - consensus is not required, nor even necessarily a good thing. The people that are heading the inquiries will make recommendations for change. Some will be adopted and some won't. It is how the system works.

My own suspicion (ie, my own opinion) is that at least in 1 state the greyhound racing industry will never again be trusted to look after animal welfare governance again which will be ceded to a group such as the RSPCA

[OSoSwift]

Good god I hope the RSPCA never get put in charge of anything like that, they can't look after themselves!

[labadore]

2000 submissions out of a population of how many ? and I've seen all of this play out before with people yelling for what they have decided will be what is best without having the ability to see the multitude of issues they may have missed and things getting progressive worse for the dogs rather than better

If you really think a government is going to put a ceiling on how many they can breed, how many they can kill or whether people can gamble on them you're dreamin.

Years ago I went to a meeting with Clover Moore's people who were already at submission stage to parliment to ban the sale of live animals in pet shops and they didnt even know that Dogs NSW allowed the sale of puppies in pet shops or numerous other things that they should have known could have known to help them if they had of looked outside their animal rights pals they would have known that at the end of the day the people they thought were going to agree with them were in fact against them.

What is best for the dogs is for us all to work together and listen to what others have to say to find realistic solutions which have the best outcome for the dogs but experience tells me there isnt a hope in hell of that happening - so if it makes you feel better ........

Oh dear another tanty! Expecting a consensus on a forum is mission impossible :laugh: , opposing views are the norm, don't know why people seem to get their knickers in a knot over it. Sounds to me like you have become pretty jaded from fighting too many battles for dogs over the years and I can understand the demoralising affect this can have and the pessimistic outlook it creates.

People/groups are working together to find solutions outside of shutting down the industry and have been working on this for some time and before the live baiting program was aired. Some of us want the industry shutdown as an ultimate goal but as a first step, will settle for a signficant overhaul of the industry that includes giving priority to the welfare of the greyhounds.

[Greyt]

Good god I hope the RSPCA never get put in charge of anything like that, they can't look after themselves!

I know, the irony is almost incomprehensible. But governments look for easy options. Hopefully, they will have policy, oversight and policing duties only and not be let within a country mile of assessment for re-homing.

I am considering getting tags for my dogs saying, "If I am lost, please do whatever you want to me but don't take me to the RSPCA - I'll never make it out alive!"

ETA, I am only half joking about the tags... but then again, maybe it would be a good business to make them up and sell them ha,ha.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Greyt