VCzerwin Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) School of Animal and Veterinary Sciences The University of Adelaide – PhD Project Maternal care and stress • Stress and anxiety are welfare issues in dogs • Maternal care influences stress in later life • We are interested in studying the link between maternal care and stress responses in puppies We are looking for pregnant dams which may be coming into season and breeding before June 2015 within South Australia What’s involved? • Continuous filming of dam and the puppies for the first 2 weeks of pups life (there is no sound on the film and the camera is focussed on the whelping box only) • Non-invasive tests with the puppies at 7 weeks of age including saliva swabs and an isolation test • Canine Behavioral Assessment & Research Questionnaire (C-BARQ) for the breeder to complete for the dam THANK YOU :) Edited July 17, 2015 by VCzerwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 What a shame I'm in Victoria! As a PhD student myself with a bitch due to whelp next month I would have been more than happy to participate. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VizslaMomma Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 What a shame I'm in Victoria! As a PhD student myself with a bitch due to whelp next month I would have been more than happy to participate. Good luck! Shame the OP could not consider you as a candidate and the beautiful Em..... What a wealth of knowledge you could share with her for the thesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 So Ill bite - why choose this to study ? How I wish PHD students would utilise the resources and skills that studies take to actually study things that will tell us something that we really do need to know - that will actually help us and the dogs - not something that is biased from the outset and that we all already know . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) I am curious as to what the isolation test is, how long etc ? Not sure what others do but I wouldn't normally isolate a puppy at 7 weeks. Also what is done to assess stress response ? Edited March 28, 2015 by Christina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) I would guess that the isolation test is just a brief removal from the litter. Saliva samples give you data on cortisol and immune responses (indicative of stress). There would probably be behavioural obs as well. I would not venture to comment on the study unless I'd read the lit review and understood it more fully. This is undoubtedly a very small part of the overall research. Steve, the problem is we have very little scientific knowledge about dog behaviour - plenty of anecdotal evidence and knowledge of course - we may want to answer question 20 but we have to go back and answer questions 1-19 first. That is the nature of research. My own PhD research question seems blindingly obvious but we needed the data and it tossed us some very interesting info whilst we were at it. I will also say that trying to do research at any level on the smell of an oily rag REALLY limits what we can do. Scraping together my own money and begging for funding for 4 years wasn't a whole lot of fun. There are VERY few opportunities for companion animal research funding and it's not something I would recommend to many prospective students. Edited March 28, 2015 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) It's the catch-22 of research - if you do/find something that makes sense, people say it's obvious and a waste of time. If you do/find something that contradicts people's expectations, they say you're an idiot/in the pocket of agribusiness/a bleeding heart/have no real-world experience. It's a tough gig and I don't envy students especially in the current funding climate. Also, everything TSD said. E- I always figured as long as I was being accused of bias equally from both sides of a debate I was doing ok Edited March 28, 2015 by Weasels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 (edited) Veronika If I were in a position to help you, I'd be glad to, but I'm half way around the world and my girls aren't breeding. I think you might get a better response out of the DOL crowd if you provided more detail on your research. What is your hypothesis? How are you testing it? What sort of sample do you hope to work with? Are you working alone, or is this part of a larger project? How are you going to analyze seven weeks of continuous data from multiple litters of pups? . . . also explain the isolation test . . . my guess is it's not stressful, but it sounds like it might be and the thought of it may scare people away. People would probably be more comfortable about this if they knew a little about you and your involvement with dogs and dog breeding. Having someone film for seven weeks in your home requires trust. It would make sense to post your appeal for volunteers in the Breeder's section if you can get permission to do so. Edited March 28, 2015 by sandgrubber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) Might also be worth approaching DogsSA if you haven't already or go out to the grounds on a weekend and have a chat to some breeders. You might get a better response that way. Maybe even see about something in the DogsSA canine journal which goes out monthly to members. Edited March 29, 2015 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I am guessing it may be building on studies such as this one http://www.appliedanimalbehaviour.com/article/S0168-1591(07)00160-8/abstract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piper Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I may be able to arrange something for you but would like to see some more information on the study first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I would guess that the isolation test is just a brief removal from the litter. Saliva samples give you data on cortisol and immune responses (indicative of stress). There would probably be behavioural obs as well. I would not venture to comment on the study unless I'd read the lit review and understood it more fully. This is undoubtedly a very small part of the overall research. Steve, the problem is we have very little scientific knowledge about dog behaviour - plenty of anecdotal evidence and knowledge of course - we may want to answer question 20 but we have to go back and answer questions 1-19 first. That is the nature of research. My own PhD research question seems blindingly obvious but we needed the data and it tossed us some very interesting info whilst we were at it. I will also say that trying to do research at any level on the smell of an oily rag REALLY limits what we can do. Scraping together my own money and begging for funding for 4 years wasn't a whole lot of fun. There are VERY few opportunities for companion animal research funding and it's not something I would recommend to many prospective students. Well maybe if the studies were more in line with what we really want done and breeders were engaged more we could help with funding and providing test subjects etc. I know it sounds horrid and I dont want to beat some poor student down and discourage anyone but seriously there is so much about this I could say and for me its a waste of money and waste of resources Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedFeather Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 If this student posted a full participant information sheet with her original post, she'd be howled down for writing too long a post for anyone to read. If you want more information, then email her or call her, I can tell you she will gush about her research as long as you're prepared to listen (I too am a PhD student so I know from experience). Steve, if you have helpful insights into the topic, I'm sure the OP would appreciate your input and expertise. The thing is, in order for anything to change at any kind of policy level, you need peer reviewed research. Saying 'anecdotally we know that...' will never influence top-down change in animal welfare laws. Also, if you want vets to be able to treat stressed/anxious/sick dogs later in life, they also need peer-reviewed research. Personally I wouldn't go near a vet who doesn't treat based on peer reviewed information. And how is anyone going to get research you 'really want done' when you are so guarded when it comes to helping a student in the first place? Have you tried approaching veterinary students and saying 'hey, I'd really like to see some research going into x...'? It really annoys me when people s*** all over research that's being done because you can't see the point of it. Fun fact - scholarships to do a PhD are very competitive and actually you won't get one if your research is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 If this student posted a full participant information sheet with her original post, she'd be howled down for writing too long a post for anyone to read. If you want more information, then email her or call her, I can tell you she will gush about her research as long as you're prepared to listen (I too am a PhD student so I know from experience). Steve, if you have helpful insights into the topic, I'm sure the OP would appreciate your input and expertise. The thing is, in order for anything to change at any kind of policy level, you need peer reviewed research. Saying 'anecdotally we know that...' will never influence top-down change in animal welfare laws. Also, if you want vets to be able to treat stressed/anxious/sick dogs later in life, they also need peer-reviewed research. Personally I wouldn't go near a vet who doesn't treat based on peer reviewed information. And how is anyone going to get research you 'really want done' when you are so guarded when it comes to helping a student in the first place? Have you tried approaching veterinary students and saying 'hey, I'd really like to see some research going into x...'? It really annoys me when people s*** all over research that's being done because you can't see the point of it. Fun fact - scholarships to do a PhD are very competitive and actually you won't get one if your research is pointless. Lots of assumptions there and yes I have approached veterinary students and professors numerous times and at one point we included a science research category in our dog owners choice awards as well to try to help with more attention on students who were having a go in the hope we could encourage funding and support and no one wanted to participate for lots of reasons which educated me on the whole politics in research areas as well. I'm not guarded about helping and have helped in studies , been interviewed for hours and participated in surveys. When much of the current "welfare for animals" research is loaded with bias from the inception and those who give out the scholarships are also sometimes bent toward their own agendas with little objectivity it may be that pointless is in the eye of the beholder. Clearly sometimes people do actually get scholarships to do PHd studies which are pointless or at the least take the people who will be told what to do from them no where - wont change policies or law and if they did would see us all being told what to do without considering the variables and other stimuli or lack there of which may have been missed. So we have one study that tells us that "gentling baby puppies at 3 days of age" is a good thing but we want another study to show stressed bitches is not a good thing - so what if the bitch gets stressed when you are gentling her puppies at 3 days of age or if you do or don't gentle her puppies at all? How is a vet who has read a peer reviewed study about how such things in baby puppies potentially affect them at 8 weeks of age going to change treatment in an older dog - the vet may assume that a symptom may be impacted by how the puppy was reared by a breeder , and was impacted by lack of gentling in the early days after birth and too much stress for the bitch but unless he was there he's still guessing and still has to treat the symptom. In the mean time all the other peer reviewed studies that tell him that its genetics, neglect, filthy conditions, poor nutrition, abuse,lack of stimulation, lack of socialisation etc etc etc all peer reviewed. All Im trying to say is that this type of stuff is good for telling the world that puppy farmers don't have time to gentle all of their pups and their bitches are more stressed and this is what puppies need according to this study or that so every breeder should be licensed and regulated and have less than a handful of dogs but where is the bit where we actually have studies that give - breeders - an opportunity to answer the question we want answers to - that are much more important to the welfare of our boys and girls and puppies than what we have seen in this country for a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaCC Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 You could go get a science degree and do your own study before you shit all over someone else's? "Pointless" to you, is not to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleksandr Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Dam and Sire is the words in pedigree world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boronia Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Dam and Sire is the words in pedigree world. O dear , I didn't realise that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 You could go get a science degree and do your own study before you shit all over someone else's? "Pointless" to you, is not to others. Im not shitting all over someone else's - and you would have no clue about what my base level is for my comments or what my qualifications are or my knowledge or experience lays. Im attempting to debate a topic and not make personal attacks as you have done. If you have something valid to say which will convince me Im wrong - give it a go talk me around - Flogging into me because I dare to state what I think takes the whole discussion nowhere. I hope the study in the OP goes well and I wish her nothing but the best for what she is doing and her attainment of her Phd but this is a discussion that needs to be had if we are ever going to progress. All your comments tell me is that anyone who wants to discuss something that's a bit outside the norm will be attacked and the person will be bullied - teaches no one anything and stifles debate which just may help in some progress and Im not easily shut up or bullied - though I am prepared to accept when I am shown why my thoughts or beliefs are not correct. By the way animal welfare law is introduced more often than many would think without any studies to back up where they have come from. You only have to take a quick look at the Victorian or NSW codes and laws for breeding dogs to see this. I didnt say this study was pointless but there are a hell of a lot of studies done over the years that would fit my definition of pointless and I ish we could get to a point where we could take more from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) If that's the discussion to be had, it would be more appropriate to take it into a new topic and have this one cleaned up. I won't engage in these discussions in an online forum because it takes far too much of my time. If you want to become involved become engaged with a University research group so the processes behind decisions become apparent and you can make a valid contribution. For what it's worth our post-grad students consult extensively with people and professionals who work in our fields of study. Edited March 30, 2015 by The Spotted Devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 So again I ask - why this study? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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