DanteandMolly Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Poor little Maltese! Thank god it weren't killed I myself am glad it wasn't seriously injured or killed. Being a big breed if he were honestly aggressive he probably would have which is why I'm shocked to why he wanted to even scale the fence to the other side. I have come from the other side- I used to be deathly scared of dogs so I can sympathise with what the owner of the Maltese is probably feeling or thinking. But yes so glad it wasn't seriously harmed!! P.s. No sign of ranger yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteandMolly Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Hi DanteandMolly I've worked in Animal Management investigating these types of incidents so will provide you with the info that I can. It's unlikely given there was no injury that a ranger will go for a Dangerous Dog declaration since the introduction of the 'menacing' dog category in Nov 2013: 33A Meaning of “menacing” and “menacing breed or kind of dog” (1) For the purposes of this Act, a dog is menacing if it: (a) has displayed unreasonable aggression towards a person or animal (other than vermin), or (b) has, without provocation, attacked a person or animal (other than vermin) but without causing serious injury or death. That last bit in bold tends to move rangers away from dangerous dog declarations these days unless there was at least some sort of serious injury OR repeated problems from the same dog. To be honest I think most reasonable rangers in this situation would issue you with a couple of fines and a nuisance order (which is basically a 6-month good behaviour bond) rather than anything more serious. Menacing is a potential, though, if they're more 'hardline'. I think the main thing you need to do which will give you the best chance of only minor action being taken is be able to show the ranger today the steps you have already taken towards ensuring your dog cannot escape again. Nothing impressed me more than when I would turn up a day or so after the attack and the owner had already put things in to place or at least got the wheels in motion to prevent it happening again without me having to have done anything yet. Maybe think about getting a roofed dog run for your dog so that it's unable to have access to the fenceline? Tell the ranger that you are keeping the dog inside the house until you can sort the problem. Don't blame the other dog owner - fact is your dog escaped your property and behaved aggressively towards another dog. Blaming the other owner usually gets rangers thinking that you aren't taking it seriously. The huge size difference between the dogs shows that your dog at least showed bite inhibition/self control. If it had wanted to seriously hurt the dog it would have - end of story. That's a good thing. Offer to provide to the ranger in writingthe action you're going to take and proof of it when it's done. Main thing I would say is have your plan in place for preventing further escapes already so you can tell it to the ranger when they arrive. Thank you very helpful got my note pad and pen out already! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teekay Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) Poor little Maltese! Thank god it weren't killed Poor little Maltese would have been fine if it's owner was obeying the rules. I hope everything works out for you and your dog DanteandMolly. TBH I'm struggling to understand how a large Bull Mastiff cross can 'attack' a Maltese and not do any damage?? Edited March 24, 2015 by teekay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) Poor little Maltese! Thank god it weren't killed Poor little Maltese would have been fine if it's owner was obeying the rules. I hope everything works out for you and your dog DanteandMolly. TBH I'm struggling to understand how a large Bull Mastiff cross can 'attack' a Maltese and not do any damage?? If would have been fine if the OP's friends dog hadn't jumped the fence. Lets not turn this into yet another "big dog v SWF advocate" thread. It won't help anyone. The fact that the other dog is one piece is a GOOD thing for everyone! Edited March 24, 2015 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteandMolly Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Poor little Maltese! Thank god it weren't killed Poor little Maltese would have been fine if it's owner was obeying the rules. I hope everything works out for you and your dog DanteandMolly. TBH I'm struggling to understand how a large Bull Mastiff cross can 'attack' a Maltese and not do any damage?? I am too, he is in no way an aggressive natured dog, I'm really struggling to understand why he would jump the fence this time and our other dog who is the great jumper didn't follow.......Dogs are always along the back of our fence. Just wish I or someone was home at the time.... ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteandMolly Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Poor little Maltese! Thank god it weren't killed Poor little Maltese would have been fine if it's owner was obeying the rules. I hope everything works out for you and your dog DanteandMolly. TBH I'm struggling to understand how a large Bull Mastiff cross can 'attack' a Maltese and not do any damage?? If would have been fine if the OP's friends dog hadn't jumped the fence. Lets not turn this into yet another "big dog v SWF advocate" thread. It won't help anyone. The fact that the other dog is one piece is a GOOD thing for everyone! I'm new to the dog forum thing.... What does OP stand for and SWF?? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Poor little Maltese! Thank god it weren't killed Poor little Maltese would have been fine if it's owner was obeying the rules. I hope everything works out for you and your dog DanteandMolly. TBH I'm struggling to understand how a large Bull Mastiff cross can 'attack' a Maltese and not do any damage?? If would have been fine if the OP's friends dog hadn't jumped the fence. Lets not turn this into yet another "big dog v SWF advocate" thread. It won't help anyone. The fact that the other dog is one piece is a GOOD thing for everyone! I'm new to the dog forum thing.... What does OP stand for and SWF?? :) Original Poster. Small White Fluffy. Welcome! I hope things go OK with the ranger. You have been given good advice. Be horrified, show contrition and demonstrate that you will take action immediately to improve your fencing. It will take you a long way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbedWire Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) It is important that your dog did not hurt the other dog. According to Ian Dunbar's scale if the skin is not broken the attack is not significant. See article. http://www.dogtalk.com/BiteAssessmentScalesDunbarDTMRoss.pdf Edited March 24, 2015 by sarsaparilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teekay Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Poor little Maltese! Thank god it weren't killed Poor little Maltese would have been fine if it's owner was obeying the rules. I hope everything works out for you and your dog DanteandMolly. TBH I'm struggling to understand how a large Bull Mastiff cross can 'attack' a Maltese and not do any damage?? If would have been fine if the OP's friends dog hadn't jumped the fence. Lets not turn this into yet another "big dog v SWF advocate" thread. It won't help anyone. The fact that the other dog is one piece is a GOOD thing for everyone! I was just stating my opinion HW. My post had nothing to do with a big dog vs SWF debate, you have brought that up, not me. it was about yet another off lead dog (big or small) creating a problem that would not have existed had the owner been obeying the rules! I live next to a path and am sick of owners letting their off leads dogs come right up to me fence line and working my dogs up. Admittedly my dogs have never got out but if this is the first time this dog has done this then the owners would not know the fence was inadequate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Poor little Maltese! Thank god it weren't killed Poor little Maltese would have been fine if it's owner was obeying the rules. I hope everything works out for you and your dog DanteandMolly. TBH I'm struggling to understand how a large Bull Mastiff cross can 'attack' a Maltese and not do any damage?? If would have been fine if the OP's friends dog hadn't jumped the fence. Lets not turn this into yet another "big dog v SWF advocate" thread. It won't help anyone. The fact that the other dog is one piece is a GOOD thing for everyone! Yes this! Regardless of the dog size it be safe in it's own yard.... Gosh I hope you guys work something out I presume the malt now can't be outside unattended until the fencing issed fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Poor little Maltese! Thank god it weren't killed Poor little Maltese would have been fine if it's owner was obeying the rules. I hope everything works out for you and your dog DanteandMolly. TBH I'm struggling to understand how a large Bull Mastiff cross can 'attack' a Maltese and not do any damage?? If would have been fine if the OP's friends dog hadn't jumped the fence. Lets not turn this into yet another "big dog v SWF advocate" thread. It won't help anyone. The fact that the other dog is one piece is a GOOD thing for everyone! Yes this! Regardless of the dog size it be safe in it's own yard.... Gosh I hope you guys work something out I presume the malt now can't be outside unattended until the fencing issed fixed The dog jumped out of its yard into a reserve. The maltese was in the reserve (illegally apparently). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 SWF should not have been in the reserve hassling the bigger dog behind its fence. Big dog should not have been enclosed in a yard with inadequate fencing. Should have had suitable fencing to make scaling impossible. Neither of the dogs are at fault, they were doing what dogs do. This is totally the fault of both dog owners. It has nothing to do with big dog vs. small dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teekay Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 SWF should not have been in the reserve hassling the bigger dog behind its fence. Big dog should not have been enclosed in a yard with inadequate fencing. Should have had suitable fencing to make scaling impossible. Neither of the dogs are at fault, they were doing what dogs do. This is totally the fault of both dog owners. It has nothing to do with big dog vs. small dog. Spot on CavNrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankdog Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) I'm guessing there was probably a bit of barking and excitement across the fence and your big dog probably leapt up and found himself with a foot over the fence and then just scrambled over. Probably took himself by surprise. He may have just galloped over and had a bit of an over excited greeting before being hauled off by bystanders. You'd expected some serious damage if he had actually gone in with intent. However now he knows he can do it he may try escaping again. I'd say it would be very important that he not get a taste of success in fence scaling. I think it would be a hard habit to deal with. Good luck and just keep breathing. The dog wasn't injured so this can all be sorted. If there's statements in the interview that make you emotional just take your time in responding. If you need a break in the process to gather yourself just ask for a bit of time out and get up and walk away for a bit. Edited March 24, 2015 by hankdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I hope, for your friends' sake, that the dog is registered and desexed. If not, stand by for a raft of fines. As has been advised, if the dog has gone over the fence once, then it may do so again. Containment will need to be their first priority. I know there are fines for unregistered dogs but I didn't know they can fine you for the dog not being desexed ? I thought it was still owners preference on desexing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I saw photos of a containment system the other day made with piping etc, the dogs can't gain purchase on it so can't get over the fence. Definitely worth installing if someone can't heighten a fence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I know there are fines for unregistered dogs but I didn't know they can fine you for the dog not being desexed ? Definitely a $ fine for dog unregistered. Not sure about the desexed thing. There are some council areas - mostly in Victoria that require a permit to own an undesexed dog. And many councils give a discount for a desexed dog (eg charge extra for an undesexed dog). In NSW - I think they still have "life time registration" for a dog. Not sure what happens if you move to a different council area if you have to re register for life time or you can just transfer. Or if they bother with discounts for desexed dogs. Eg if you buy a puppy that is whole - and you wait two years (maturity) to desex (based on current knowledge for best bone and joint development) - you'd want to register before the dog was 2 years old. You'd miss out on the discount. OP = Opening Poster or the person who started the thread (or in this case - their friend who has now joined the thread - the person who posed the questions and needs the info - confused yet - you're not alone). SWF = small white fluffy BC = Border Collie GSD = German Shepherd Dog GSP = German Short Haired Pointer... Do we have a glossary thread in here anywhere? IYC = Its Yer Choice (game) ANKC - Australian National Kennel Club - and registrar for Pedigrees. Eg when someone says their dog is "Registered" most people in here will think with ANKC and it's a Pedigree. But most people advertising on Gumtree mean - with their local council. (that's probably too much but sometimes I get carried away). I'm sure if you build the fences up - all will be well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) This is very good advice. That would be the way I go. So to break it down a bit further: Before the ranger arrives: Keep dog inside temporarily or at least show how you are going to keep it off the fence line . Phone fencing people about repairing fence if required and putting piping stuff on top so the dog can't get traction and scramble over. Make appointment with fencing give ranger definite date that the work will be done and and offer for the ranger to speak with the fencing person. Start training the dog to recall and stay off the fence line (hard but worth a try). At appointment with the ranger: Get the name, email and number of the ranger and keep him/her informed of the changes and send photos of progress. Having done all that, it would be a pretty unreasonable ranger who didn't give you some time and space to solve the problem first, particularly if this is a 'first offence'. Hi DanteandMolly I've worked in Animal Management investigating these types of incidents so will provide you with the info that I can. It's unlikely given there was no injury that a ranger will go for a Dangerous Dog declaration since the introduction of the 'menacing' dog category in Nov 2013: 33A Meaning of "menacing" and "menacing breed or kind of dog" (1) For the purposes of this Act, a dog is menacing if it: (a) has displayed unreasonable aggression towards a person or animal (other than vermin), or (b) has, without provocation, attacked a person or animal (other than vermin) but without causing serious injury or death. That last bit in bold tends to move rangers away from dangerous dog declarations these days unless there was at least some sort of serious injury OR repeated problems from the same dog. To be honest I think most reasonable rangers in this situation would issue you with a couple of fines and a nuisance order (which is basically a 6-month good behaviour bond) rather than anything more serious. Menacing is a potential, though, if they're more 'hardline'. I think the main thing you need to do which will give you the best chance of only minor action being taken is be able to show the ranger today the steps you have already taken towards ensuring your dog cannot escape again. Nothing impressed me more than when I would turn up a day or so after the attack and the owner had already put things in to place or at least got the wheels in motion to prevent it happening again without me having to have done anything yet. Maybe think about getting a roofed dog run for your dog so that it's unable to have access to the fenceline? Tell the ranger that you are keeping the dog inside the house until you can sort the problem. Don't blame the other dog owner - fact is your dog escaped your property and behaved aggressively towards another dog. Blaming the other owner usually gets rangers thinking that you aren't taking it seriously. The huge size difference between the dogs shows that your dog at least showed bite inhibition/self control. If it had wanted to seriously hurt the dog it would have - end of story. That's a good thing. Offer to provide to the ranger in writingthe action you're going to take and proof of it when it's done. Main thing I would say is have your plan in place for preventing further escapes already so you can tell it to the ranger when they arrive. Edited March 24, 2015 by westiemum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) roll top fencing... DIY http://badrap-blog.blogspot.com.au/2010/02/march-is-fix-your-darned-fence-month.html PS if you think 6 foot is enough - watch this and here's a Houdini beagle for good measure but they're a bit smaller and more agile than a mastiff cross. Tho a mastiff is pretty good at the head butt until gate fails technique. Edited March 24, 2015 by Mrs Rusty Bucket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Welcome :) And yep, as others have said. Fences. If he can scale when he wants to you can find yourself with a dog jumping anytime he pleases. Not for any special reason like getting to another dog. I've heard of more than one who repeatedly escaped just to get back to the front door because they wanted to be inside. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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