Staffords Temperament

[Stressmagnet]

I think what the op is after is not just a dog to get along with her current dog, but one she can happily take out and about and not worry about it being prone to aggro.

I think as a breed we must recognise they dont suffer fools, and its something that should be considered. I never put my BT in a situation i am not happy with as as with SBT ,they will finish it.

Yup. Georgia was a wonderful dog but there are many many badly socialised dogs out there and she was having none of it. And the thing to remember is - an AmStaff will ALWAYS be blamed, no matter what provocation or which dog was the aggressor. I used to watch idiots let their dog come charging up to her and I'd be yelling 'control your dog' and they'd just laugh and say 'oh she's friendly'. Then teach her some damn manners so my dog doesn't feel threatened.

Which is why, after Georgia died, I went for a goofy labrador who just shrugs off bad dog manners and takes himself out of the frame. Of course, I've still put the work in with him that I did with Georgia, but I bet HE wouldn't get automatically blamed if there was some nastiness.

glad you got a labrador, american staff dont belong in a dog park.

My original post a bunch of pages ago said I never ever took Georgia to a dog park. EVER. There are people on my own street who walk their dogs off leash past my house and yard. There are people who let their dogs off leash at every opportunity - to hell with the signs.

I was a responsible Staffie owner.

And there's no disgrace or inferiority in owning a Lab. :D

Edited March 16, 2015 by Stressmagnet

[Staffyluv]

I think what the op is after is not just a dog to get along with her current dog, but one she can happily take out and about and not worry about it being prone to aggro.

I think as a breed we must recognise they dont suffer fools, and its something that should be considered. I never put my BT in a situation i am not happy with as as with SBT ,they will finish it.

Yup. Georgia was a wonderful dog but there are many many badly socialised dogs out there and she was having none of it. And the thing to remember is - an AmStaff will ALWAYS be blamed, no matter what provocation or which dog was the aggressor. I used to watch idiots let their dog come charging up to her and I'd be yelling 'control your dog' and they'd just laugh and say 'oh she's friendly'. Then teach her some damn manners so my dog doesn't feel threatened.

Which is why, after Georgia died, I went for a goofy labrador who just shrugs off bad dog manners and takes himself out of the frame. Of course, I've still put the work in with him that I did with Georgia, but I bet HE wouldn't get automatically blamed if there was some nastiness.

glad you got a labrador, american staff dont belong in a dog park.

What a horrible generalised statement!

I bet you don't even know one!

My boy is the best behaved dog at the leash free park - he plays with dogs as small as puppies and as large as Great Danes

Zig and Riley by jamoore photos, on Flickr

Zig and Maisie by jamoore photos, on Flickr

We have had 7 foster dogs, ranging from Kelpie mixes to Pitbulls and the last one a boxer cross and he accepts them all into his home to eat with him, play with his toys and he also lives with 4 Pekin chickens that are not locked up away from him - he goes in and out of the coop and not once has he ever hurt or chased them..

[blackun]

beautiful dog, but it only takes one incident. generalization is wrong but im being realistic. yup i know nothing bout amstaff or apbt. just do us all a favour when your dog attacks the other dog ,dont get scared of your own dog when their eyes light up

lmao.

[Simply Grand]

Pfft, yeah Zig's about to turn at any moment and start "attacking" other dogs, be scared SL!!

[Salukifan]

With the greatest of respect Staffyluv, isn't Ziggy a crossbred?

I don't doubt for a moment that he is an extremely amiable dog but I think drawing conclusions about any breed based on the behaviour of dogs that may not even be that breed's cross is unwise, especially when those breeds have higher than average levels of dog aggression.

Personally Amstaffs and SBTs are dogs that I am wary of in dog social situations. They are powerful animals and IF they decide to take an issue with a dog, they will finish the fight, ice it and put little sprinkles on it. When coupled with an owner that cannot or will not accept that such behaviour is possible from their dog, I take a course to avoid.

In my limited experience with such dogs, many want to be dominant. With submissive dogs that's all good. When a dog doesn't submit you can have issues.

This is a breed bred with a high degree of reactivity to other dogs, a low bite threshold and low bite inhibition where dogs are concerned. It's a powerful cocktail in the hands of the unwary. I've had so many owners tell me that their dogs are "friendly" as they approached mine stiff legged, hackles up, tails over they back and staring hard.

Some are complete marshmallows but as a stranger, I won't know that.

I leave any off lead area I see an Amstaff or SBT entering. Safety first. The fact that I have entire males makes me extra cautious.

I certainly would not recommend one to a person wanting a dog park regular.

One of the problems I see with DOL these days is that a lot of folk with high levels of in depth breed knowledge have left. That leaves pet owners with lesser experience in breeds giving advice, sometimes based on knowledge of no more than one dog. All I can say is that I'd be listening to the people who breed and have bred these dogs and/or who have dealt with multiple dogs of that breed to make a decision about buying one. Dog trainers also tend to see a lot of the more common breeds and tailor their advice accordingly. Their advice may not be as palatable but my suggestion is that it will be more accurate. I'd be hard pressed to find an Amstaff or SBT breeder who'd underrate their chosen breeds' capacity for dog aggression if pressed. No amount of socialisation and training is going to undo a breed's hard wiring and any decent dog trainer will tell you that.

If you'd like another example, witness all the posts on social media of Greyhounds with cats and rabbits and a complete denial by many of these dogs' owners that prey drive is a real issue in the breed more widely. Its what they are bred for and the idea that Greyhounds only will chase small animals because they are made to is both ignorant and dangerous. No knowledgeable sighthound person I know would make such an assertion.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Haredown Whippets

[Lasareina]

I agree Staffyluv ... I have absolutely no qualms about my girl in the dog park, she is always the friendliest dog there. My boy is another story, and he stays outside with me. Don't think it is helpful or accurate to generalise an entire breed.

[Simply Grand]

I don't think SL (or I) is saying that because Zig is good with other dogs people don't need to worry about other SBTs, Amstaffs or mixes being a problem, just that some of them are good with other dogs. From what I've seen of Zig he is a good dog communicator. I don't think he's a pushover and I'm sure SL wouldn't be shocked if he defended himself if another dog was aggressive towards him but both he and SL work to avoid him having to. So it is possible, and Zig isn't the only one out there like that.

But definitely I agree with everyone saying these type of dogs can cause problems with other dogs, particularly if they are not well bred, properly socialised and trained and managed appropriately. I think it's really unfortunate that they are so readily available to people who don't know what they are getting or what they need to do once they have the dog. I met a 16 week old SBT at the park this evening belonging to a young couple who had no clue what they were doing. He was a confident puppy, full on play style, running up and jumping and pawing at Quinn and the another adult SBT there, who were both happy to play in that rough and tumble style but you could see this puppy as an adult entire male wouldn't take kindly to being told to piss off by another dog he was annoying then. The owners were embarrassed when he sniffed other doggy butts, annoyed at his attempts to hump, had no idea what play bowing was and when he wouldn't come when called got increasingly frustrated and angry at him. I can see them getting increasingly frustrated as he grows and does things they don't want and giving up trying to train him and letting him do what he wants. And of course, continuing to bring him to the off leash dog park.

There are plenty of these types of staffies around, I know. And I also move my dogs away when a staffy type I don't know shows up, but I also do that with Cattle Dogs, German Shepherds, Huskies, Rotties, actually pretty much any dog I don't know until I see how they interact with other dogs.

I'm certainly not saying that the OP, or anyone, should get an SBT or Amstaff without a lot of thought, and they're not a dog I'd particularly want myself but if you follow the advice of someone like WreckitWhippet, find a breeder that carefully considers temperament and be sensible with socialising, training and what is suitable to do with your dog as it shows its individual personality you can still have a nice dog. A Cairn Terrier isn't teeny tiny and SBTs aren't huge so as long as they weren't having issues I don't see why they couldn't be left together as adults (bearing in mind with any dog you add to a household you could have a problem with fighting).

Edited March 16, 2015 by Simply Grand

[Salukifan]

I agree Staffyluv ... I have absolutely no qualms about my girl in the dog park, she is always the friendliest dog there. My boy is another story, and he stays outside with me. Don't think it is helpful or accurate to generalise an entire breed.

Probably not but an understanding of what is typical breed behaviour is not a bad thing. Thinking your pup will be different can be the fast track to heartache.

After all, its why breeds were developed - to increase the odds of getting selected characteristics. Times have changed and some of those characteristics are less desirable now but many dogs of a breed will still have them.

I'd cheerfully generalise that most bull breeds are utterly bomb proof when it comes to kids if they are raised and socialised correctly. I am very happy to recommend them as family dogs but that recommendation comes with a caution about dog aggression. The yin and the yang of those breeds. There are plenty of other examples in other breeds.

[Stressmagnet]

I agree Staffyluv ... I have absolutely no qualms about my girl in the dog park, she is always the friendliest dog there. My boy is another story, and he stays outside with me. Don't think it is helpful or accurate to generalise an entire breed.

Probably not but an understanding of what is typical breed behaviour is not a bad thing. Thinking your pup will be different can be the fast track to heartache.

After all, its why breeds were developed - to increase the odds of getting selected characteristics. Times have changed and some of those characteristics are less desirable now but many dogs of a breed will still have them.

I'd cheerfully generalise that most bull breeds are utterly bomb proof when it comes to kids if they are raised and socialised correctly. I am very happy to recommend them as family dogs but that recommendation comes with a caution about dog aggression. The yin and the yang of those breeds. There are plenty of other examples in other breeds.

What a great reply. Thank you for commonsense.

I've met lovely Staffies at dog parks. I've also met ones that scared the crap out of me. I owned a lovely dog who I could never trust off leash because of her low tolerance for bad doggy manners and the fact she was 22kgs of sold muscle and was determined to finish any fight that got started.

No where have I said ALL AMSTAFFS are DA. But I agree that anecdotal evidence (even mine) is not enough. I wish more breeders would contribute to the discussion as that's where the in depth knowledge would be so valuable to the pet owners on here.

I will not generalise ALL amstaffs based on my beloved Georgia - just that despite doing heaps of breed research (I thought) at the time - when she decided at such a young age that her tolerance for silly dogs was low - I was flummoxed. Here was a well socialised dog who simply decided she was not going to tolerate most dogs anymore. I spent a ton of money on behaviourists and I'm so proud of where we got with her -- but had I realised that despite this, she would always be a cranky pants, I would have talked my ex into a different dog. He, by the way, was the type who bought her a spiked collar and I'm sure un-did a lot of the time I put in with her, but that's another irrelevant anecdote.

The OP asked if we thought another AmStaff would be a suitable companion. Sure! With the right breeding, there's a chance it would. But in my opinion, thete's also s chance it WOULDNT. There are so many other breeds of dog out there that have LESS likelihood of finishing fights or being grumpy with other dogs, and don't have the muscle to finish what gets started.

And Zig looks gorgeous. If I was 20 years younger, knowing what I know now - I'd get another AmStaff in a heartbeat.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Stressmagnet

[juice]

The voice of reason HW !

Lets not forget that purebreds were bred for certain traits, wether they have been watered down its still there, and being breed blind is dangerous.

I rarely go to offlead parks etc, but if i happen to take my son to a certain skate park that has one next to it with my dogs i never go in if there is a staffy or amstaff in there. ( i also watch from outside for a while to make sure the dogs in there are ok too, whatever breed).

we must remember ,j ust because our dog of that breed is wonderful it doesn't change the mould.

Edited March 16, 2015 by juice

[Staffyluv]

beautiful dog, but it only takes one incident. generalization is wrong but im being realistic. yup i know nothing bout amstaff or apbt. just do us all a favour when your dog attacks the other dog ,dont get scared of your own dog when their eyes light up

lmao.

You are serious aren't you!

Wow - I have nothing else to add.

Pfft, yeah Zig's about to turn at any moment and start "attacking" other dogs, be scared SL!!

lol

With the greatest of respect Staffyluv, isn't Ziggy a crossbred?

I don't doubt for a moment that he is an extremely amiable dog but I think drawing conclusions about any breed based on the behaviour of dogs that may not even be that breed's cross is unwise, especially when those breeds have higher than average levels of dog aggression.

Personally Amstaffs and SBTs are dogs that I am wary of in dog social situations. They are powerful animals and IF they decide to take an issue with a dog, they will finish the fight, ice it and put little sprinkles on it. When coupled with an owner that cannot or will not accept that such behaviour is possible from their dog, I take a course to avoid.

In my limited experience with such dogs, many want to be dominant. With submissive dogs that's all good. When a dog doesn't submit you can have issues.

This is a breed bred with a high degree of reactivity to other dogs, a low bite threshold and low bite inhibition where dogs are concerned. It's a powerful cocktail in the hands of the unwary. I've had so many owners tell me that their dogs are "friendly" as they approached mine stiff legged, hackles up, tails over they back and staring hard.

Some are complete marshmallows but as a stranger, I won't know that.

I leave any off lead area I see an Amstaff or SBT entering. Safety first. The fact that I have entire males makes me extra cautious.

I certainly would not recommend one to a person wanting a dog park regular.

One of the problems I see with DOL these days is that a lot of folk with high levels of in depth breed knowledge have left. That leaves pet owners with lesser experience in breeds giving advice, sometimes based on knowledge of no more than one dog. All I can say is that I'd be listening to the people who breed and have bred these dogs and/or who have dealt with multiple dogs of that breed to make a decision about buying one. Dog trainers also tend to see a lot of the more common breeds and tailor their advice accordingly. Their advice may not be as palatable but my suggestion is that it will be more accurate. I'd be hard pressed to find an Amstaff or SBT breeder who'd underrate their chosen breeds' capacity for dog aggression if pressed. No amount of socialisation and training is going to undo a breed's hard wiring and any decent dog trainer will tell you that.

If you'd like another example, witness all the posts on social media of Greyhounds with cats and rabbits and a complete denial by many of these dogs' owners that prey drive is a real issue in the breed more widely. Its what they are bred for and the idea that Greyhounds only will chase small animals because they are made to is both ignorant and dangerous. No knowledgeable sighthound person I know would make such an assertion.

You get no argument from me about all your points on SBT and Amstaffs (and even their cross breed types). I have only ever owned them as pets, never bred them or showed them. Most of our dogs (family and mine personally) have been good dogs, well socialised and friendly.

There was one that was PTS at 18 moths old for aggression (he was my sisters dog and not a nice dog at all)..

We also had one bitch that didn't suffer other dogs in her face - she simply didn't go off lead.

My old boy, Ollie, became a bit funny after he was attacked a couple of times, so again, he simply didn't go off lead.

Just because they don't like other dogs, doesn't mean they can't be managed (or PTS if it isn't manageable).

No dog that gets iffy with other dogs should be in an off lead area.

Yes Zig is a cross breed - but based on how he acts and my experience (as a pet owner) with staffords over my lifetime, he is pretty typical in temperament of most of the male SBTs we have owned over the years.

I am wary of unknown dogs - of all breeds.

I realise that SBTs and ASTs often finish what others start, so they are much scarier to people.

We have one SBT bitch at our park, who is nice but gets antsy if another dog tries to take their own ball back - personally, if she was mine, I wouldn't take her to a off lead park. But I'm not her owner, so it isn't my call. I tend to not go at the times she is there now.

We only go early in the morning, with a select group of dogs (there are about 20 or so at any given time and they all get along just fine - have done for a few years now). We have two other SBTs in the group, two great danes a few labs, kelpies, ACDs, a maltese, a JRT and a mini Schnauzer.

I know my dog, Zig is an awesome boy with a great temperament. I find the ignorance of dumping all bull breeds into the aggression bucket frustrating sometimes.

I understand why it happens but I don't have to like it.

[WreckitWhippet]

It's not about dumping all bull breeds into the same category, it's about knowing and understanding a breeds history and temperament.

The happy go lucky SBT that readily accepts and tolerates the majority of other dogs and their behaviours is the exception, rather than the rule.

For the most part they are fine with other dogs that play by their rules and they are "a gentleman unless set upon", the rules are pretty tough, you play nice, don't challenge them or do anything that can be perceived as aggressive.

We can talk generalisations when it comes to what is typical of any breed, these traits are what defines them as a breed, otherwise we would be discussing "generic" dog.

[german_shep_fan]

beautiful dog, but it only takes one incident. generalization is wrong but im being realistic. yup i know nothing bout amstaff or apbt. just do us all a favour when your dog attacks the other dog ,dont get scared of your own dog when their eyes light up

lmao.

Go away troll

[Cleveland]

Thank you all for your replies,I have been following along and taking everything on board.

I am not a total novice to American staffies and managing dog aggression, without going into it to much my brother moved home with his lovely but very dog aggressive Am Staff (with papers from a registered breeder, father was a European import.....probably had something to do with his DA) for 12 months and we had the dog. He was a shift worker on long shifts so i looked after the dog a lot.

There was no dog parks (i dont like them) so long walks and jogs with me along bike tracks and beach etc. I used to have to keep him on a leash and muzzled with a metal one that he could drink and pant through because of the amount of dogs that people just let run up to us despite me yelling get your dog! He was very much 'ill finish what you start' and the slightest posturing or challenge from another would set him off. We broke up a few fights when his aggression started showing as he matured and it not something i ever want to do again. He was a sweetie with our dogs at the time, small maltese cross females would would snap and snarl at him and he would just take it as 'they love me' and never batted an eye lid.... but he was muzzled when around them in the house as we just didn't trust him 100%. We had a large dog run out the back for him when we were not home. It was stressful at times taking him out constantly being on guard and scanning for other dogs etc.

I just don't want the management and stress of that again. I haven't had much to do with SBT hence my question.

I have spoken to OH and told him honestly concerns and opinions etc and while still keen to get one i think he realises im not happy and not risking my cairn. Plus i do not want a high needs dog again, i want a dog to throw in the car with cairn and bubs and take for a walk/to beach/to families homes without worrying about managing behavior.

He loves his bully types so his compromise is an English bulldog or Australian bulldog. I know Aussie bulldogs are relatively 'new' but im having to compromise here and i would love and English but don't think we can afford the maintenance vet bills lol.

Anyone have any experince with Australian bulldogs?

[Cleveland]

Oh and yes, blackun your comments are not helpful AT ALL.

[Staffyluv]

If he is after a bully type dog - what about a French Bulldog?

[Maddy]

Oh and yes, blackun your comments are not helpful AT ALL.

After posting that disgusting video glorifying dog fighting, I'm surprised (and a bit disappointed) that he's even still here

[Taliecat]

Oh and yes, blackun your comments are not helpful AT ALL.

After posting that disgusting video glorifying dog fighting, I'm surprised (and a bit disappointed) that he's even still here

Me too..

I saw that the post was removed but quite shocked that he's still posting.

It seems we have a troll in the dungeons.

[LisaCC]

Thank you all for your replies,I have been following along and taking everything on board.

I am not a total novice to American staffies and managing dog aggression, without going into it to much my brother moved home with his lovely but very dog aggressive Am Staff (with papers from a registered breeder, father was a European import.....probably had something to do with his DA) for 12 months and we had the dog. He was a shift worker on long shifts so i looked after the dog a lot.

There was no dog parks (i dont like them) so long walks and jogs with me along bike tracks and beach etc. I used to have to keep him on a leash and muzzled with a metal one that he could drink and pant through because of the amount of dogs that people just let run up to us despite me yelling get your dog! He was very much 'ill finish what you start' and the slightest posturing or challenge from another would set him off. We broke up a few fights when his aggression started showing as he matured and it not something i ever want to do again. He was a sweetie with our dogs at the time, small maltese cross females would would snap and snarl at him and he would just take it as 'they love me' and never batted an eye lid.... but he was muzzled when around them in the house as we just didn't trust him 100%. We had a large dog run out the back for him when we were not home. It was stressful at times taking him out constantly being on guard and scanning for other dogs etc.

I just don't want the management and stress of that again. I haven't had much to do with SBT hence my question.

I have spoken to OH and told him honestly concerns and opinions etc and while still keen to get one i think he realises im not happy and not risking my cairn. Plus i do not want a high needs dog again, i want a dog to throw in the car with cairn and bubs and take for a walk/to beach/to families homes without worrying about managing behavior.

He loves his bully types so his compromise is an English bulldog or Australian bulldog. I know Aussie bulldogs are relatively 'new' but im having to compromise here and i would love and English but don't think we can afford the maintenance vet bills lol.

Anyone have any experince with Australian bulldogs?

I know there are a few registration organisations and I urge you to do a lot of research if you go for one.

I know of plenty of people that bought extremely expensive 'Aussie bulldogs' and ended up still needing to do all the nose and throat surgeries that British Bulldogs often need, and lots that needed entropian surgery too. Behavioural problems galour, one was PTS for aggression.

Would he be open to a boxer?

[blackun]

those were historical images of founders of bull fighting breed. it was all legal that time. like posting video of founders of german sheperd and their dogs one hundred years ago, on a all breeds forum , then get upset. you want to hide the history, but happy to sell their dogs. were pictures from late 1800s and early 1900s. you think my post was trolling, my post were factual. hard truth.