Staffords Temperament

[john26980]

Im not looking to stir and this is an honest post so please bare with me.

We lost our old American Staffy to cancer recently, now he was a total sweetie and very very placid and laid back when it came to other dogs.

Not an aggressive bone in his body, so we bought a female cairn terrier to join the family and they were amazing together, but herein lies the problem, she is now on her own.

I am after honest answers, Stafford breeders please join in.

Are American Staffords inherently dog aggressive? Are English stafford the same?

Now i know we cant judge a breed and there will always be exceptions (like our boy) but as a trait do they have aggressive tendencies towards others?

I personally know 3 American staffords (males) and they are AMAZING with people, so friendly and lovely, but very dog aggressive!

Despite early socialisation, training and even getting a behaviorist involved they cannot be trusted around other dogs.

We would like to get another but i have serious concerns about the behavior i have seen first hand, and already having my little cairn i do not want to risk her at all.

Someone suggested English staffords rather than American as being more 'doggy safe'.

I have emailed a few breeders asking questions regarding temperament (its a must as we also have a baby and cat as well as our cairn) and none have replied.

Sorry for the essay, but its weighing heavily and i guess i just want some honest feedback.

Personally i would be happy with another cairn or westie but the other half loves his bigger dogs, i even suggested a golden retriever but hes pretty set on a stafford.

edited for spelling!

[Stressmagnet]

I owned a beautiful Anstaff. She was amazing with people - seriously awesome.

At 8 months she decided she hated other dogs.. I tried several behaviourists - the best I could ever get her to do was to sit on leash when another dog appeared. I never ever could have her in an off leash area with other dogs. Broke my heart, but that was her.

Yesterday I took Ernie to an off leash area with a friend who has an American cocker pup and an elderly Cavalier. There were two Staffies on lead (English) who's owners were struggling to control. Both slipped their collars and headed for our dogs. The male staffy was wonderful - play bowing and running around with the pups like a mad thing. The female headed straight for the cocker pup's throat and after the owner pulled her off (and we put the cocker on lead) the female broke free and went for the Cavalier. I got in the middle and scooped the old boy up. Interesting that the female staffy didn't go near Ernie - perhaps his size saved him.

I love Staffies. But having had a staffy breed who came from a good breeder and she STILL turned dog aggressive PLUS the constant work and effort to try and desensitise her and failing - I know a staffy is not the breed for me. After yesterday, I'm not so sure it's for a lot of other folks either.

Please get your hub to consider another breed. You could get lucky - the male staffy was a beautiful testament to the breed but unless you are willing to put in the time - you could get one that has dog issues. The owners yesterday openly admitted they'd done nothing to deal with the females dog issues as they were 'too busy'. If that's your husband, be prepared for a possible tragedy.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Stressmagnet

[Taliecat]

SM, I had the same experience with my boy, he loved everydog and then at 10 months, he just changed..

It broke my heart, and I love Amstaffs but will probably never get another after he is gone.

[melzawelza]

I like that article that Melzawelza just posted and the bell curve- however, there are dogs beyond their particular definition of dog aggressive as well and to suggest that there is not a category of dogs who are beyond "needing supervision and a good leader" to manage dog aggressive behaviour is a little inaccurate IMO.

I agree with you, I don't really think the article is denying that though. Severely dog aggressive dogs can be managed if the owner has realistic expectations (i.e doesn't expect the dog to have dog friends, keeps the dog leashed at all times (and muzzled if necessary), ensures the dog is well contained). Of course sometimes that management is very hard and overwhelming, particularly in busy inner-city living, and euthanasia is a valid decision to make.

To the OP - *Most* purebred Amstaffs & Staffords are not Dog Aggressive, but many may be dog tolerant or dog selective (some will be dog social). This is not a problem in itself if you aren't expecting a dog to be best buds with every single dog it meets, to put up with rude behaviour from other dogs, or to go to the dog park and be thrown in with heaps of other dogs.

There is a big size difference between an Amstaff and a Cairn and I probably wouldn't leave any dogs alone for extended periods of time unsupervised with such a size difference, regardless of breed, unless I knew the dogs very well. If being able to do all these things are super important to you AND you are set on getting a puppy, then it is probably better for you to get a different/smaller dog, just in case. Dog aggression is not limited to blockheads by any stretch, though - so if you got something the same size I would exercise the same caution with separating and you may still end up with issues.

If you aren't set on a puppy, though, I really do recommend considering an adult dog (either breeder rehome or rescue) with known temperament. There are seriously huge amounts of SBT/Amstaff 'type' dogs in rescue that are dog social and would happily live with another dog, just like your previous dog.

ETA: I wanted to stay away with personal anedcotes as it doesn't really mean much but seeing as you've got a lot of negatives in this thread I'll give you my positive - my rescued blockhead is 4yo, got her at 10months old from the pound. She is 100% dog social off the property. She can be a bit pushy and bitchy with dogs her size ON the property unless they're good 'buddies' already, but not aggressive. Small dogs and puppies at the property are totally fine. My housemate's parents little JR mix rescue comes over every Monday for playdates and they get on beautifully, even when the littley gets 'small dog sassy' with my girl.

Edited March 13, 2015 by melzawelza

[staffydave]

I own a staffordshire bull terrier who has been 100 per cent rock solid with dogs. I have owned him since he was a pup and started obedience training very young . He has always been exposed to dogs. I believe that is the key to his temp now. He attends a fantastic dog day care at least once a week where he has become a star. They rave about him. He has been attacked twice once sustaining some pritty serious bites and not once did he fight back. Infact he picked up a ball and kept playing. He is however high energy and can rub some dogs the wrong way. Staffy s with many people never get a fair go, behaviour ignored or even encouraged in other breeds is immediately condemned from a staffy. Some people just don't like them and never will regardless of the real facts. You should however not forget there past and be a responsible owner. If you put the work in there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to raise a pup to be social with other dogs. If you go out and get another breed and think just because you didn't choose a Staffy it is automaticaly going to be tolerant of your own and other dogs you might be in for some trouble. We have several dog aggressive dogs in my neighbour hood and they ain't staffys the worst are two toy poodles followed closely by a lab.

Edited March 13, 2015 by staffydave

[RedFeather]

Cleveland - I know you say you want a puppy and not a rescue, but I see you are in SA. We have some really good rescues here. Try looking at SA Dog Rescue and Adelaide All Breeds Rescue on facebook, they are both really good organisations that are no kill and have an extensive fostering program so dogs are temperament tested with all kinds of situations.

[Dame Aussie]

My husbands Amstaff was awesome with other dogs, big and small :)

[Staffyluv]

SBT male and female Cairn will be fine together. The males are rarely aggressive towards bitches and tend to take being bossed around by the girls in their stride.

I would personally be looking closely at the temperament of the parents. Buy from a registered breeder who knows their dogs, knows their lines and you shouldn't have an issue.

There is no way in hell I would have a female SBT and a female Cairn together.

Good advice as usual WW..

I prefer males to females (just a preference) because I find them much easier going than the females that I have known.

I have a male staffy cross here at the moment and he is the most amazing dog, with an awesome temperament. He accepts all dogs that come here, plays wonderfully with dogs of all ages and sizes at the leash free park and lives with 4 pekin chickens.

[tesslc]

We have an entire English SBT male and he is beautiful. He socialises with other dogs reasonably well although he has had a few scraps with my parents entire male Bull Arab. He also had a few scraps with our SBT girl when she was alive, but that was her who started it. He would always pull away repeatedly and we could call him off. He plays well with most dogs he's introduced to.

Our girl became aggressive after she had pups and our boy got too close to the whelping box. After that, there was a period of about 6 months where the smallest thing would set them off. She stopped when they fought under my feet and I copped a canine in the foot. Both of them were so guilty and we never had another problem.

I think there's a couple of points here - plenty of SBTs live happily in multi dog households without an issue, but they do tend to be more aggressive then some other breeds. Any little/big dog relationship has its risks as a small dog can get hurt by accident. If your Cairn is not aggressive at all, and you introduce the SBT as a puppy (especially a male) I don't think you'd have any issues but all the same I'd take the precaution of not leaving them alone unattended to begin with (until the SBT is 12 months or so), feeding them separately etc

[WreckitWhippet]

We have an entire English SBT male and he is beautiful. He socialises with other dogs reasonably well although he has had a few scraps with my parents entire male Bull Arab. He also had a few scraps with our SBT girl when she was alive, but that was her who started it. He would always pull away repeatedly and we could call him off. He plays well with most dogs he's introduced to.

Our girl became aggressive after she had pups and our boy got too close to the whelping box. After that, there was a period of about 6 months where the smallest thing would set them off. She stopped when they fought under my feet and I copped a canine in the foot. Both of them were so guilty and we never had another problem.

I think there's a couple of points here - plenty of SBTs live happily in multi dog households without an issue, but they do tend to be more aggressive then some other breeds. Any little/big dog relationship has its risks as a small dog can get hurt by accident. If your Cairn is not aggressive at all, and you introduce the SBT as a puppy (especially a male) I don't think you'd have any issues but all the same I'd take the precaution of not leaving them alone unattended to begin with (until the SBT is 12 months or so), feeding them separately etc

From then on is the time you are most likely to encounter issues.

[Jemmy]

Sorry to hear your girl has left you tesslc

My MIL has a SBT girl (desexed) and she is one of the most stable dogs I've ever met. I'd encourage what others have suggested and ensure you choose a breeder with dogs who have a history of good temperaments.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

The question only you can answer is "is it worth the risk"? I don't believe it is.

[WreckitWhippet]

For all the "nice" dog anecdotes out there, a Stafford that is true to type and temperament will finish what another dog starts. It's how you manage your SBT's that determines the outcome.

Other have said that you will get dogs and bitches at either end of the scale, being submissive to dog aggressive, the majority fall somewhere in between, which means it's all fine until another dog starts something or they react to something they don't like.

I believe that for the bulk of my dogs and bitches over the years, they have been typical in terms of temperament. The dogs are generally fine with bitches regardless of breed, dogs tend to be fine with others that don't push the buttons or by challenging them, dogs tend to posture and give you plenty of warning of how they are going to react and what they are going to do.

Bitches on the other hand are usually "bitches", they fall out with one another easily, harmonious bitch relationships are much harder to maintain and manage. They don't give you a lot of warning of when they are going to attack and when they decide they want another bitch gone they mean it.

I would happily put a male SBT with a Cairn female. I've run mine with various breeds small and large without incident.

The combinations that are likely to give you trouble are same sex and entire, same sex and similar ages, mother daughter combinations.

[Stressmagnet]

Great comments. My problem may have been I had an AmStaff bitch and I was not well versed emough (I thought I was but..) to manage her.

They are a gorgeous gorgeous breed. If I could, I would.

[juice]

I think what the op is after is not just a dog to get along with her current dog, but one she can happily take out and about and not worry about it being prone to aggro.

I think as a breed we must recognise they dont suffer fools, and its something that should be considered. I never put my BT in a situation i am not happy with as as with SBT ,they will finish it.

[Stressmagnet]

I think what the op is after is not just a dog to get along with her current dog, but one she can happily take out and about and not worry about it being prone to aggro.

I think as a breed we must recognise they dont suffer fools, and its something that should be considered. I never put my BT in a situation i am not happy with as as with SBT ,they will finish it.

Yup. Georgia was a wonderful dog but there are many many badly socialised dogs out there and she was having none of it. And the thing to remember is - an AmStaff will ALWAYS be blamed, no matter what provocation or which dog was the aggressor. I used to watch idiots let their dog come charging up to her and I'd be yelling 'control your dog' and they'd just laugh and say 'oh she's friendly'. Then teach her some damn manners so my dog doesn't feel threatened.

Which is why, after Georgia died, I went for a goofy labrador who just shrugs off bad dog manners and takes himself out of the frame. Of course, I've still put the work in with him that I did with Georgia, but I bet HE wouldn't get automatically blamed if there was some nastiness.

[blackun]

I think what the op is after is not just a dog to get along with her current dog, but one she can happily take out and about and not worry about it being prone to aggro.

I think as a breed we must recognise they dont suffer fools, and its something that should be considered. I never put my BT in a situation i am not happy with as as with SBT ,they will finish it.

Yup. Georgia was a wonderful dog but there are many many badly socialised dogs out there and she was having none of it. And the thing to remember is - an AmStaff will ALWAYS be blamed, no matter what provocation or which dog was the aggressor. I used to watch idiots let their dog come charging up to her and I'd be yelling 'control your dog' and they'd just laugh and say 'oh she's friendly'. Then teach her some damn manners so my dog doesn't feel threatened.

Which is why, after Georgia died, I went for a goofy labrador who just shrugs off bad dog manners and takes himself out of the frame. Of course, I've still put the work in with him that I did with Georgia, but I bet HE wouldn't get automatically blamed if there was some nastiness.

glad you got a labrador, american staff dont belong in a dog park.

[juice]

I don't see where she said her Amstaff was in a dog park.

You dont have to be in a dog park to have idiots and their dogs running loose around you.

[Taliecat]

I don't see where she said her Amstaff was in a dog park.

You dont have to be in a dog park to have idiots and their dogs running loose around you.

Oh this is so true. I live in an area where there are always dogs off leash in the streets.

We only walk our boy in the dead of the night to avoid being charged by offleash dogs.

[blackun]

For all the "nice" dog anecdotes out there, a Stafford that is true to type and temperament will finish what another dog starts. It's how you manage your SBT's that determines the outcome.

Other have said that you will get dogs and bitches at either end of the scale, being submissive to dog aggressive, the majority fall somewhere in between, which means it's all fine until another dog starts something or they react to something they don't like.

I believe that for the bulk of my dogs and bitches over the years, they have been typical in terms of temperament. The dogs are generally fine with bitches regardless of breed, dogs tend to be fine with others that don't push the buttons or by challenging them, dogs tend to posture and give you plenty of warning of how they are going to react and what they are going to do.

Bitches on the other hand are usually "bitches", they fall out with one another easily, harmonious bitch relationships are much harder to maintain and manage. They don't give you a lot of warning of when they are going to attack and when they decide they want another bitch gone they mean it.

I would happily put a male SBT with a Cairn female. I've run mine with various breeds small and large without incident.

The combinations that are likely to give you trouble are same sex and entire, same sex and similar ages, mother daughter combinations.

there is a saying , you can take the pitbull out of the pit but you cant take the pit out of a pitbull dog.