Four Corners: Greyhound Racing: Live Baiting Revelations

[Maddy]

I don't know if I want Greyhound racing banned. I do want it to be much more regulated. I don't know how that will work. Greyhounds love to race. If the sport can be managed with animal welfare as priority then I have no problem with it.

I feel this way as well I have to say.

How that can happen, I am not sure. There does need to be closer monitoring and much tighter regulations adn yes the amount of surplus dogs needs to be dealt with in a much more satisfactory way.

I know of Whippets injured racing each other in the back yard and yes the odd one dieing from injuries gained in racing around with their friends. So yes there are injuries adn yes they are under more pressure but injuries on the track should not be a main reason to stop racing.

My Whippet injured her knee after running around with my dog at home and zagged when she should have zigged.

The photo below was taken this morning. Idiot Dog did that to himself, just chasing the Shitty Whippet around our perfectly flat front lawn. He has also ripped off his dew claw (a couple of times) running around the house like a twit and on the one occasion we let him offlead in a fenced dog park, he ran through a low-growing tree and gashed himself from his wrist up to his elbow. He has also skinned his thighs falling over, grazed skin off both wrists (you can actually see a scar on his wrist in that photo) and on several occasions, run directly into solid objects.

While I'd agree there are definitely things the racing industry could do to improve safety in races, letting a greyhound run (whether on a track or just in its own yard) is taking a risk.

Personally, I'm on the fence when it comes to the question of banning the sport. On one hand, I can't see the industry cleaning up enough to satisfy the welfare concerns but on the other hand, I absolutely love ex racers as pets. Ban the sport and once all the current dogs have passed away, that'll be it- no more greyhounds except the showbreds and those backyard bred for hunting.

Admittedly the reasoning against banning is selfish but how many people arguing for the ban are currently enjoying the companionship of an ex racer?

I think the only way to satisfy both sides of the issue would be a return of the sport to a hobby: with strict breeding limits, straight grass tracks and the requirement that every dog bred is accounted for and given the chance of rehoming once retired. Not that it'll happen, of course, so.. meh

[Greyt]

Personally, I'm on the fence when it comes to the question of banning the sport. On one hand, I can't see the industry cleaning up enough to satisfy the welfare concerns but on the other hand, I absolutely love ex racers as pets. Ban the sport and once all the current dogs have passed away, that'll be it- no more greyhounds except the showbreds and those backyard bred for hunting.

Greyhounds get a very bad rap, as you know. I am convinced that they should be amongst the very top choices for all the baby boomers out there that want a much more low energy dog than they may have had when the kids were growing up. That is, the Grey is more suited now to our demographic than they have ever been (please don't read that they are just suited to older people). I am hopeful that if the sport was returned to a leisure activity, breeders would turn up to fulfil a pet need.

Admittedly the reasoning against banning is selfish but how many people arguing for the ban are currently enjoying the companionship of an ex racer?

The journey you can take with an ex-racer is remarkable. To see it go from A to Y in pet life in a compressed period of time is joyful - just like teaching a puppy but without the associated destruction!

To stop all of the negative practices occurring today, the general public needs to join together to give the pollies an easy choice. Clean up or ban the industry once and for all (easy) or keep sponsoring the industry (hard). Victoria seems closest to making changes consistent with markedly improving the welfare of GH.

It is the general public (large numbers of people) that will force the pollies to act, not the Greyhound owners (small numbers of people, easily ignored). The 4 Corners episode illustrates the power of the people.

I think the only way to satisfy both sides of the issue would be a return of the sport to a hobby: with strict breeding limits, straight grass tracks and the requirement that every dog bred is accounted for and given the chance of rehoming once retired. Not that it'll happen, of course, so.. meh 

I would love to see the above and when you look at what has happened to the industry, even from 5 short years ago, we are already on that track. It is a process that will occur over time, not overnight. Don't underestimate this industry's capacity for dumb. Time and again, they have given the welfare lobby the ammunition it needs to put forward a winning argument for change.

That change is already happening - we are about to see the biggest changes to improve Greyhound welfare that we ever have - bring it on! Like @Labadore says, the industry has failed in its duty to protect the Greyhounds in its care and has failed each time. This step ends self regulation in 2 or 3 states.

One more big slip up from the industry after that and one state will go down and that will signify the beginning of the end.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Greyt

[Greyt]

OMG, I fail so hard on using this software. I have searched how to use multiquotes, see them used all of the time and yet can't do it myself.

Sorry all.

[tdierikx]

OMG, I fail so hard on using this software. I have searched how to use multiquotes, see them used all of the time and yet can't do it myself.

Sorry all.

Click on the Multiquote button on each post you want to reply to, then click on the Add Reply button at the bottom of the thread... don't click the Reply button on a post.

T.

Edited February 28, 2015 by tdierikx

[mita]

Bit O/T but decent racing trainer we knew, once made an interesting comment about a couple of the greyhounds he'd bred & raised for racing. We'd remarked they were stunning. He agreed, saying that they'd be superb if they'd been in the world of dog showing. It'd never occurred to me that greys were shown, like other dog breeds.

I looked up an article which confirmed they were, but there's only a small number of breeders in Australia who take that direction.

http://www.greenhounds.com.au/activities-/showing.html

Maybe those p/b show greys might be kept happy with dog sport lure coursing!. No gambling or 'primary industry' riding on their shoulders.

I think the sighthounds like greyhounds, borzois, salukis, whippets are the most beautiful creatures...in how they look & move.

[HazyWal]

Bit O/T but decent racing trainer we knew, once made an interesting comment about a couple of the greyhounds he'd bred & raised for racing. We'd remarked they were stunning. He agreed, saying that they'd be superb if they'd been in the world of dog showing. It'd never occurred to me that greys were shown, like other dog breeds.

I looked up an article which confirmed they were, but there's only a small number of breeders in Australia who take that direction.

http://www.greenhounds.com.au/activities-/showing.html

Maybe those p/b show greys might be kept happy with dog sport lure coursing!. No gambling or 'primary industry' riding on their shoulders.

I think the sighthounds like greyhounds, borzois, salukis, whippets are the most beautiful creatures...in how they look & move.

Our very own Rebanne in there with Warrior

[mita]

Stunning is the word, isn't it HW!

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

There's always a balance between sport that gets out of control because nobody enforces the rules - and sport that goes completely underground - no rules...

Eg dog fighting, rooster fighting etc.

Ie if you ban racing and lure coursing - you can end up with illegal activity, no ethics and no animal welfare.

A bit like trying to outlaw alcohol. Or other drugs.

Find a way to make it more accessible and more ethical (safety of the dogs first)...

Lure coursing - at the moment - run one dog at a time, and with a bundle of old tshirts and plastic bags as the lure.

If they ban this - will they also ban flirt poles, chasing the hose, tennis ball (lots of injuries from this too), and tug?

there's always a balance.

[Rebanne]

Bit O/T but decent racing trainer we knew, once made an interesting comment about a couple of the greyhounds he'd bred & raised for racing. We'd remarked they were stunning. He agreed, saying that they'd be superb if they'd been in the world of dog showing. It'd never occurred to me that greys were shown, like other dog breeds.

I looked up an article which confirmed they were, but there's only a small number of breeders in Australia who take that direction.

http://www.greenhounds.com.au/activities-/showing.html

Maybe those p/b show greys might be kept happy with dog sport lure coursing!. No gambling or 'primary industry' riding on their shoulders.

I think the sighthounds like greyhounds, borzois, salukis, whippets are the most beautiful creatures...in how they look & move.

Our very own Rebanne in there with Warrior

and my hounds are also in the life cycle bit :)

[Greyt]

There's always a balance between sport that gets out of control because nobody enforces the rules - and sport that goes completely underground - no rules...

Eg dog fighting, rooster fighting etc.

Ie if you ban racing and lure coursing - you can end up with illegal activity, no ethics and no animal welfare.

A bit like trying to outlaw alcohol. Or other drugs.

Find a way to make it more accessible and more ethical (safety of the dogs first)...

Lure coursing - at the moment - run one dog at a time, and with a bundle of old tshirts and plastic bags as the lure.

If they ban this - will they also ban flirt poles, chasing the hose, tennis ball (lots of injuries from this too), and tug?

there's always a balance.

Is anyone in this thread except you discussing a ban on lure coursing, alcohol, other drugs, tennis balls, flirt poles, chasing the hose etc.

Just a reminder, this thread is about the extremely challenging footage seen on 4 corners and the community reaction to that. When the media does an exposé on dogs and tennis balls that results in the current level of community outrage we are seeing here, I'm sure there will be a separate thread for you to comment on.

[labadore]

Article published on Sunday regarding Tasmania State Govt's reaction to Four Corner's expose:

State Government puts greyhound racing industry on notice

State Government puts greyhound racing industry on notice

LORETTA LOHBERGER

Mercury

March 01, 2015 5:30PM

The state’s greyhound industry is set to come under the scrutiny of a parliamentary inquiry

THE State Government has warned those involved in the greyhound industry that they are on notice.

The Government has given in-principle support for a parliamentary inquiry into the state’s greyhound racing industry, proposed by the Greens.

“While the Government has been advised by racing authorities that there has been no evidence of animals (dead or alive) being used to bait greyhounds in Tasmania since 2008, we believe the high level of public concern means a parliamentary inquiry is warranted, and will assist to restore public confidence in the industry,” Racing Minister Jeremy Rockliff said.

MORE: GREENS CALL FOR INQUIRY INTO GREYHOUND INDUSTRY

The inquiry is in addition to the Government’s own review being be carried out by the director of racing and the state’s chief veterinary officer.

The findings of that review are due to be provided to Mr Rockliff by March 13.

“The findings ... will inform any subsequent parliamentary inquiry which will be an additional longer term look at the state of the industry,” he said.

“It is important that those in the greyhound industry who may be doing the wrong thing know that they are on notice ... Any use of live baiting is illegal, disgusting and totally unacceptable.”

Tasmanian Greens animal welfare spokeswoman Cassy O’Connor said she was now negotiating the terms of reference for the inquiry with Mr Rockliff.

She has proposed that the joint-house committee inquires into practices in the Tasmanian greyhound industry, including live baiting, “wastage” – the killing of dogs that are not fast enough or that are past their use-by date – and “draining”, where a dog’s blood is drained before it is euthanased.

The committee will also examine the capacity of regulatory authorities to carry out their roles in relation to animal welfare and the level of government and other funding provided to support the industry in Tasmania.

Ms O’Connor said she has heard from people “closely associated” with the state’s greyhound industry who allege live baiting, wastage and draining are all happening in Tasmania.

“They’re very supportive of a parliamentary inquiry and of the protection that that would provide to whistleblowers,” she said.

RSPCA Tasmania says it supports a parliamentary inquiry into the state’s greyhound industry and urged all involved to be thorough and vigilant in their investigation.

[HazyWal]

There's always a balance between sport that gets out of control because nobody enforces the rules - and sport that goes completely underground - no rules...

Eg dog fighting, rooster fighting etc.

Ie if you ban racing and lure coursing - you can end up with illegal activity, no ethics and no animal welfare.

A bit like trying to outlaw alcohol. Or other drugs.

Find a way to make it more accessible and more ethical (safety of the dogs first)...

Lure coursing - at the moment - run one dog at a time, and with a bundle of old tshirts and plastic bags as the lure.

If they ban this - will they also ban flirt poles, chasing the hose, tennis ball (lots of injuries from this too), and tug?

there's always a balance.

Is anyone in this thread except you discussing a ban on lure coursing, alcohol, other drugs, tennis balls, flirt poles, chasing the hose etc.

Just a reminder, this thread is about the extremely challenging footage seen on 4 corners and the community reaction to that. When the media does an exposé on dogs and tennis balls that results in the current level of community outrage we are seeing here, I'm sure there will be a separate thread for you to comment on.

You don't own the thread Greyt, this is a discussion forum and MrsRB makes some valid points...if you had bothered to read.

[mita]

Good on the Tasmanian Greens for asking for an enquiry that extends the terms of reference to include, but go beyond, live baiting. The welfare of the greyhounds themselves is of huge concern for all the reasons people have posted about in this thread.

I still find it hard to see how welfare of the kind we'd expect for dogs in general, can be applied to an 'industry' based on gambling & being a primary industry. That invariably makes the greys into 'economic units', not sentient beings.

I also find it hard to see how any stricter regulations can be applied & policed when the greyhounds are on private property.

[Maddy]

Unfortunately, Cassy O'Connor sits in the back pocket of Emma Haswell and she's absolutely one of the last people I'd want advocating for my breed.

This is the same clueless politician who wanted a levy added to all dog registrations to help cover the cost of impounding unregistered dogs. In other words, punishing those who do the right thing, to the benefit of those who do the wrong thing. Interestingly, this is the same state party who wanted a cat curfew and the destruction of any cat caught outside. God forbid we kill greyhounds but let's set up a system specifically aimed at killing cats.

The Greens in this state are opportunistic and will jump on causes to buy community support. This inquiry will be a waste of time and money because I can tell you now what the outcomes will be: (and I'll even do it for free)

Yes, there are a few allegations of live baiting but no, no one has hard evidence down here. Nothing can be done about it.

Yes, a lot of dogs are drained at vets for blood but there is nothing illegal in that and we can't punish people retroactively for it anyway. The RSPCA in Tasmania probably destroys just as many dogs and not only are they not called to account, the public supports them.

Yes, there are a few allegations of doping but again, no actual evidence.

All in all, exactly the same issues that have always existed and that nobody gave a sh*t about because it never involved bunnies or piglets before.

Recommendations: to carry on as usual, but say things that make it look as if things might be changed. A public smacking for the racing industry and a private word to them about not causing more trouble.

The Greens like to call inquiries but what ever changes as a result? For the cost of one of those inquiries, they could rehome a hell of a lot of dogs and make an actual difference to some actual dogs.

[mita]

Fair comment, given there have been enquiries into greyhound racing.... like the one in NSW in 2013. A former vet on a major track gave evidence that he despaired of any fair hearings into the problems of the industry. So he wanted the NSW Ombudsman to mount an investigation. Don't know how that'd work anyway ... besides it didn't happen.

The chairperson of that enquiry pushed the economic buttons... saying that it was a valuable primary industry in semi-rural & rural areas. No notions of shutting down from him. He also said if they'd had the kind of information the animal activists have finally got.... they might've been able to do something. But what the 'something' was he didn't say. Can't see it being much because the welfare elements all take place on private property.

I think there's a lot of vested interests in the money side of the industry. Right now, I bet the Racing Authorities are lobbying the government about loss of jobs (among staff employed at the big tracks & businesses that 'resource' them), if the industry falters (as it is) or is banned (as some are calling for). 'Loss of jobs' are terror words for governments these days. Not to mention loss of tax revenue.

All this makes it hard to see what real changes could come from the enquiries.

[Maddy]

I guess my opinion of inquiries (with regards to animal welfare issues, anyway) is that they're set up so that people look busy "doing something" about the problem. Four Corners airs some horrible footage, the general public demand action, a inquiry is ordered, the general public assumes an inquiry will fix the problem and move on to more important issues, like whether or not that dress is white and gold or actually blue and black :/

[mita]

I'd agree to that.

Qld's Racing Minister's just announced there'll be an enquiry into (1) why live baiting went undetected and (2) what can improve the situation.

All together now: (1) it was known it existed but the admin had no will to do anything and (2) nothing really.

And nothing in that is about the welfare of the greyhounds.

He also announced that the enquiry will be funded by Racing Qld (does that sound like the Racing Qld investigating itself?).

[Maddy]

I'd agree to that.

Qld's Racing Minister's just announced there'll be an enquiry into (1) why live baiting went undetected and (2) what can improve the situation.

All together now: (1) it was known it existed but the admin had no will to do anything and (2) nothing really.

And nothing in that is about the welfare of the greyhounds.

He also announced that the enquiry will be funded by Racing Qld (does that sound like the Racing Qld investigating itself?).

That sounds about right.

To give them credit where it is due.. after a long discussion I had with someone from DIER, retirement forms down here are now being checked. Of course, this is still limited because there are still too many loopholes and following up each one properly is basically impossible. And that's the problem- it's impossible to follow up things that leave indisputable evidence (like a dog no longer existing), so what hope do they have of following up more difficult matters, such as baiting? Exactly zero hope.

I'm sure those involved are aware of that fact so promises to try are really all they can offer.

[Greyt]

Fair comment, given there have been enquiries into greyhound racing.... like the one in NSW in 2013. A former vet on a major track gave evidence that he despaired of any fair hearings into the problems of the industry. So he wanted the NSW Ombudsman to mount an investigation. Don't know how that'd work anyway ... besides it didn't happen.

The chairperson of that enquiry pushed the economic buttons... saying that it was a valuable primary industry in semi-rural & rural areas. No notions of shutting down from him. He also said if they'd had the kind of information the animal activists have finally got.... they might've been able to do something. But what the 'something' was he didn't say. Can't see it being much because the welfare elements all take place on private property.

I think there's a lot of vested interests in the money side of the industry. Right now, I bet the Racing Authorities are lobbying the government about loss of jobs (among staff employed at the big tracks & businesses that 'resource' them), if the industry falters (as it is) or is banned (as some are calling for). 'Loss of jobs' are terror words for governments these days. Not to mention loss of tax revenue.

All this makes it hard to see what real changes could come from the enquiries.

It is telling that Victoria, which is a Labor state appears most willing to take the strongest action.

It is always a temptation to think that nothing will change today, but over time, changes have already been made to increase the welfare of the dogs and movement along the continuum has never been as fast as it is today.

One day, I feel, Humpty Dumty will have a great fall.

[Greyt]

He also announced that the enquiry will be funded by Racing Qld (does that sound like the Racing Qld investigating itself?).

Even Racing QLD will have to allow for some change to make the Minister look good eg, easier access to RSPCA to perform spot inspections. Betting on significant reform however would be taking the losing end of the bet.