Four Corners: Greyhound Racing: Live Baiting Revelations

[Maddy]

A lot of people have worked very hard for a long time to change the public's perception of Greyhounds and to change muzzling laws. It only takes a few nasty incidents to undo all that good work.

I agree entirely.

FWIW,I never once took my fosters out for a walk without a muzzle.

That said, I find many of the tests that make up the assessment have no bearing on weather a dog should be allowed out without a muzzle.

And to have the tests done in a strange environment, without the owner present in atypical situations... well, I won't go on.

Which tests would those be?

[Greyt]

According to some on the Animals Australia page it doesn't matter if some/most are euth'd as they apparently would be anyway and if it justifies the industry being shut down it is completely fine with them which I found abhorrent.

--Lhok

No surprises there.

For most of those sorts of groups, it's not at all about helping actual animals, it's about getting certain things abolished.

Interestingly, I saw this today and although it sounds all really great in theory, the idea of a group like AA managing the actual welfare of actual animals concerns me greatly.

Well, I am glad to hear you speak to the motivations of "most of these sorts of groups". You have such insight.

"the idea of a group like AA managing the actual welfare of actual animals concerns me greatly."

Interestingly, it doesn't concern me at all because I fear the status quo far more. See http://www.smh.com.a...221-13kyps.html

"It cost $50 to get rid of them."They took the dogs out the back shot them in the head and dropped the bodies in a deep pit."

A veteran greyhound trainer who has tried to raise the issue of animal welfare told Fairfax Media that he was shocked at the way the dogs were treated at one property when they were considered not good enough or fast enough to race.

He was so disturbed about the "disgusting" conditions for kennelled dogs at the same place, he took photos to show a parliamentary inquiry which was examining the industry which attracts $1 billion a year in bets.

He also complained to the industry regulator Greyhound Racing NSW (GRNSW) and told them the property had been owned by one of its own employees.

Groups like AA are not much different to PETA. They are not rescue groups, they do not deal with the day-to-day welfare of actual animals. Should a group such as AA be given the responsibility of caring for and rehoming large numbers of greys, the outcome could be lasting damage to the reputation of the breed when improperly tested dogs are adopted out to pet homes.

Getting snide at me doesn't change the facts

This isn't a case of one or the other because there are better options (as I pointed out in a previous post).

Ok, lets talk facts:

[x] Some within the Greyhound industry use live baiting as a training method. AA does not.

[x] In 20112, the now disgraced and stood aside CEO of GRNSW admitted that 3000 Greyhounds per year were put down. 1 Trainer gave evidence to a parliamentary inquiry that dogs are taken to a property and shot for $50.00 then dumped in a pit. Nope, AA doesn't do that.

[x] Many racing greyhounds have been systematically doped by those in the greyhound racing industry.[x]The Victorian Greyhound Racing Integrity Commissioner voluntarily resigned because he knew he was not given the authority to actually bring about integrity to the industry. No sign of AA there.

[x] An ex Steward has been implicated in the live-baiting scandal

[x]An ex employee of GRNSW has been accused of shooting unwanted dogs for $50.00, then dumping them.

[x] An ex GR board member has been accused of doping

[x] The whole GHNSW board has been stood down in disgrace

[x] The Greyhound Racing Industry breeds far too many dogs year in, year out

[x] The Greyhound racing industry has been saying for years that they are increasing the welfare of greyhounds.

[x]Nobody believes them.

You are right, my snide attitude doesn't change any of the above facts.

BTW, do you believe that only 3000 dogs per year are killed in NSW? Given the source is from GRNSW, I am erring on the side of not believing. You know, on the AA website, they say 90% of all dogs are disposed of every year. Well, if 7000, were whelped in NSW in 2012, that would mean over 6000 were disposed of according to AA's guestimates. But GRNSW says "only" 3000 were destroyed.

Hmmm, who should I believe?

Did you miss the part where I said AA or the industry were not the only two options available?

My quoted post does mention that but just in case you missed it..

This isn't a case of one or the other because there are better options (as I pointed out in a previous post).

You mean when you suggested phasing out the industry?

I saw that.

I think it has a great deal or merit, especially with a body independent of the racing industry creating and enforcing a set of standards aimed at dogs still eligible to be in training together with a monetary bond that could be forfeited for infractions of the standards. The independent body would also have the right to spot inspections and other mechanisms to enable enforcement of the standards.

And the independent body would not be able to receive other forms of govt funding to prevent conflict of interest situations.

[Greyt]

A lot of people have worked very hard for a long time to change the public's perception of Greyhounds and to change muzzling laws. It only takes a few nasty incidents to undo all that good work.

I agree entirely.

FWIW,I never once took my fosters out for a walk without a muzzle.

That said, I find many of the tests that make up the assessment have no bearing on weather a dog should be allowed out without a muzzle.

And to have the tests done in a strange environment, without the owner present in atypical situations... well, I won't go on.

Which tests would those be?

Well look at the WA Law Here:

33. Special provision for greyhounds

(1) A greyhound must be muzzled in such a

manner as will prevent it from biting a person

or animal unless:

(a) it is in or at premises occupied by its

owner; or

(b) it has successfully completed a prescribed

training programme.

Is there a body of evidence suggesting that Greyhounds bite people more than other dogs do?

And yet here is the law..."must be muzzled in such a

manner as will prevent it from biting a person"

Any test that needs to asses Greyhounds to ensure they will not bite humans in my opinion is way off base.

Just my opinion, by I think all new owners should be given access to a course with supplementary reading material, videos etc explaining how to be a wonderful handler... and it should be paid for IMO by the industry. Assessing a dog out of its home environment eg at a kennel for 4 days will not always produce a result consistent with the dogs everyday behaviour at home (IMO)

I know great strides forward have been made and sooo much effort have been put in by sooo many people and I don't want to see any backward steps at all.

[HazyWal]

I haven't been on line much in the last few days but as soon as I am my newsfeed on FB is flooded with panicked greyhound rescues screaming for foster carers and money. These are the same rescues that have been campaigning for the end of greyhound racing and now dogs are starting to come in they are crapping themselves at the enormity of what they have been demanding. They didn't think that far ahead, they didn't think about where dogs will go if the industry was shut down completely they still have NFI. Gone Are The Dogs posted this morning "what happens to the dogs now?" Should've thought about that earlier hey?

No, you didn't say other things.

What you did say is above and it's an abominable comment, I was ashamed to even read it.

To quote you, verbatim, "They didn't think that far ahead, they didn't think about where dogs will go if the industry was shut down completely they still have NFI. Gone Are The Dogs posted this morning "what happens to the dogs now?" Should've thought about that earlier hey?"

The campaigners have "NFI"? You mean the people appalled by live baiting, doping, unfathomable "wastage", cheating, money laundering, various other criminal activity not to mention that board members are being caught out, ex-stewards have been involved in live-baiting and self regulation is a joke.

You mean those people have "NFI"?

Tell me, what do you think of the public's outrage about this issue?

What? Are you part of the GRDBOIT cult are you? The very ones that insist every single greyhound is rehomable? The ones that slandered my name all over the AA pages because I don't believe every greyhound is rehomable (like any other breed) and called me a dog killer because I still stand by that? Those people? What do I think of the publics outrage? I'm as filthy as they are.

So you tell me...what happens to the dogs...now, today if greyhound racing in this country is shut down immediately?

To answer your questions:

No, I am not affiliated in any way with the above group or any activist group. I am an individual concerned about the mass disposal of unwanted Greyhounds and abhorrent training practices including live baiting and doping and poor nutrition.

Do I believe that every Grey is re-homable? I don't have enough experience to answer that. My *opinion* is that Greyhounds have shown in study after study to be amongst the least likely of all breeds to attack humans. My opinion is that the assessment programs are overly onerous and have some just silly elements eg, why is there a need to test only Greyhounds around how they react when approached when eating? Are the authorities worried that Greyhounds are routinely fed when out walking and if they are approached, they will become aggressive? Some of the scenarios included in the tests are too silly for me to even think about.

As a group, only Greyhounds are routinely subjected to a code of practice that enables trainers to keep them in tiny cages for 20+ hours per day and thanks to media reports, we have seen some trainers live baiting and doping so how is the dog supposed to develop "normally" in the way that other dog breeds that are raised as pets are?

My opinion is that if there are Greyhounds that should not be re-homed, it has nothing to do with the breed and everything to do with the way they have been treated by their trainers... you know, industry people. Those charged with the dogs welfare. Those subjected to stringent industry regulations.

I have seen the joyfulness with which young Greyhounds live their lives before they are broken in.

I have seen and experienced the changes that ex-racing greyhounds undergo when transitioning to pet life and the progress that they make is truly remarkable. I have seen ex-racing dogs whose life's greatest pleasure is to meet a new human and to eagerly make friends with other dogs of all breeds. I know of ex-racing dogs being used as therapy dogs, bringing joy to the lives of elderly and infirm people. I know that Greyhounds make wonderful pets for all sorts of people, some that can't provide too much exercise, some that don't like too much hair and some that don't like that doggy smell. I know Greyhounds are well suited to apartments, duplexes and small houses.

So what I think is that Greyhounds are suited to a variety of people living in a variety of situations and with a variety of lifestyles.

Nobody can answer your last question. My best guess would be that most Greyhounds would be made to disappear. So very much like happens with a Greyhound industry but in much greater numbers. The rescues would be inundated. The breeding programs would cease. Punters would punt. Many in the industry would try to get involved with horses.

My guess is that over the coming years, you would not see the over breeding and subsequent mass disposal of wonderful, healthy dogs, you wouldn't see cruelty such as live baiting, You wouldn't see healthy dogs fed an unhealthy diet filled with supplements n the name of winning, You wouldn't see the cheating, doping, money laundering, corrupt officials...

It would be a nicer world to live in.

Thank you for asking.

Many in the industry would try to get involved with horses?? Do you have any idea how much money is involved in owning a thoroughbred racehorse?

I do not agree with you so I will leave it there.

[HazyWal]

All reputable rescue groups temperament test all dogs before rehoming. It's not just Greyhounds.

The muzzle law is ancient but no doubt came about because of the methods used to train the dogs. Greyhounds are known for being almost bomb proof with humans but not so great with small animals. Of course many Greyhounds are fine with small animals, but if they aren't they can do a lot of damage very quickly.

As for your other comments, of course their behaviour is due to their upbringing. Everybody knows that. The same is true for all dogs. However no other breed of dog is routinely raised in kennels and runs, not properly trained or socialised, taught to chase and potentially kill small animals - and then turfed out into the community. When raised as a pet as part of a family, they are no different to any other dog. But when raised in the manner described above, care must be taken when rehoming.

A lot of people have worked very hard for a long time to change the public's perception of Greyhounds and to change muzzling laws. It only takes a few nasty incidents to undo all that good work.

Yes to all of the above.

My Maddie would never pass assessment and so she shouldn't she is very dog aggressive. As a responsible owner she will always be muzzled first and foremost for her own safety and for the safety of all things small and furry in the world. If I, like many do, just refused to muzzle her and she attacked another dog I have put her at risk of being PTS PLUS especially right now while we as grey owners are trying to promote the breed, walking her unmuzzled would just be blatent stupidity. Maddie is not the type of greyhound for the first time grey owner and if they just flipped the bird to the muzzling laws she would be in all sorts of trouble and so would they.

Edited February 22, 2015 by HazyWal

[Dame Aussie]

ANY dog that has come into rescue should be assessed before being rehomed, no matter the breed/size etc.

[*kirty*]

Greyt, did you even read my post? No other breed of dog is raised in the way Greyhounds are, and then expected to become good family pets. The fact that so many DO make good family pets is a testament the to the breed. Of course they need to be temperament tested before being rehomed. There is no way I would recommend anyone adopt any adult dog that hadn't been properly temperament tested.

And I think you need to do more research on what temperament testing is. It is not black and white, pass or fail. A good temp test is meant to find out information about the dog, what it tolerates, and what areas it needs work. From there, the dog can be trained, put into foster care, etc. Of course it is not a fool proof method, but it is the best we can do. Putting untested dogs out into the community is stupid and dangerous, for the public and for the Greyhound breed.

[gapvic]

Greyt, did you even read my post? No other breed of dog is raised in the way Greyhounds are, and then expected to become good family pets. The fact that so many DO make good family pets is a testament the to the breed. Of course they need to be temperament tested before being rehomed. There is no way I would recommend anyone adopt any adult dog that hadn't been properly temperament tested.

And I think you need to do more research on what temperament testing is. It is not black and white, pass or fail. A good temp test is meant to find out information about the dog, what it tolerates, and what areas it needs work. From there, the dog can be trained, put into foster care, etc. Of course it is not a fool proof method, but it is the best we can do. Putting untested dogs out into the community is stupid and dangerous, for the public and for the Greyhound breed.

Exactly this. The temperament assessment we use acts as a guide as to what home the dog would be best suited to. Will a dog fail our assessment for resource guarding? No - not unless he actually tries to attack us. But what this part of our assessment does show us is that if he growls when we come near him when he is eating, then he's probably not suitable for a home with small children who won't understand to leave him alone when he has his dinner.

[mita]

According to some on the Animals Australia page it doesn't matter if some/most are euth'd as they apparently would be anyway and if it justifies the industry being shut down it is completely fine with them which I found abhorrent.

--Lhok

Lhok, I'll go look at this. It's the coming tragedy for greys that as the industry 'shrinks' or is banned, that one of their problems will get much worse...being .deliberately killed in great numbers. I agree, to say this justifies the end is abhorrent.

We need an associated campaign that advocates for the greyhounds. I know that AWL Qld is for banning, but they're great in promoting greys in their adoption. Calls them the greatest companion dogs, after behavioral assessment. Behavioral assessment is applied to all dogs.

Qld is going to have an enquiry (one member is former police chief.. nice man & pet dog owner). But like NSW it's going to concentrate on the live baiting issue.... which is fine. But that focus has a spin-off of making greys look like the villain with their breed invariably more suss than any other.

That's another reason we need something that provides reliable information on greyhounds.... in the public arena. I'm a Life Member of AWL Qld & will contact them on this issue.

Edited February 23, 2015 by mita

[Lhok]

Mita when I say some I have read a fair few comments on their facebook page about it. Not sure if they (AA)

have scrubbed it or not I don't have screen shots as I was disgusted by the comments I closed the tab. I am kicking myself that I didn't get screen shots of it though.

--Lhok

[Maddy]

A lot of people have worked very hard for a long time to change the public's perception of Greyhounds and to change muzzling laws. It only takes a few nasty incidents to undo all that good work.

I agree entirely.

FWIW,I never once took my fosters out for a walk without a muzzle.

That said, I find many of the tests that make up the assessment have no bearing on weather a dog should be allowed out without a muzzle.

And to have the tests done in a strange environment, without the owner present in atypical situations... well, I won't go on.

Which tests would those be?

Well look at the WA Law Here:

33. Special provision for greyhounds

(1) A greyhound must be muzzled in such a

manner as will prevent it from biting a person

or animal unless:

(a) it is in or at premises occupied by its

owner; or

(b) it has successfully completed a prescribed

training programme.

Is there a body of evidence suggesting that Greyhounds bite people more than other dogs do?

And yet here is the law..."must be muzzled in such a

manner as will prevent it from biting a person"

Any test that needs to asses Greyhounds to ensure they will not bite humans in my opinion is way off base.

Just my opinion, by I think all new owners should be given access to a course with supplementary reading material, videos etc explaining how to be a wonderful handler... and it should be paid for IMO by the industry. Assessing a dog out of its home environment eg at a kennel for 4 days will not always produce a result consistent with the dogs everyday behaviour at home (IMO)

I know great strides forward have been made and sooo much effort have been put in by sooo many people and I don't want to see any backward steps at all.

*facepalm*

Firstly, regurgitating legislation at me isn't answering my question and neither is making bizarre claims about the purpose of testing.

You seem to keep not understanding that the tests have no more to do with human aggression than a standard test for any breed. The point of testing is to assess a number of behaviours in each dog to work out what (if anything) needs addressing, to help pick the most suitable foster home and eventually, for selecting final home.

Testing is done to ensure the best possible outcome and it's beyond me how anyone could disagree with it.

[mita]

Mita when I say some I have read a fair few comments on their facebook page about it. Not sure if they (AA)

have scrubbed it or not I don't have screen shots as I was disgusted by the comments I closed the tab. I am kicking myself that I didn't get screen shots of it though.

--Lhok

Thanks, Lhok. It might've been postings to their Facebook page. So I'll see if I can find if AA themselves have any statements on the fate of the greys themselves.

[Greyt]

Putting untested dogs out into the community is stupid and dangerous, for the public and for the Greyhound breed.

Of course it is. Please do not put words in my mouth.

When the industry and government sanctions keeping Greyhounds cooped up in tiny cages for 20 hours per day, could there be an alternative approach to allowing this to go on, then temp testing?

I don't know, perhaps those involved in the industry could think about the welfare of dogs in the first place? Especially those that draw an income from the remnants of cruelty that the Greyhound Racing Industry perpetuates?

Why is it a given that the dogs are allowed to get to that point in the first place?

Providing temp testing has always been done when re-homing Greyhounds, and nobody ITT is suggesting it shouldn't be done.

But please explain the following to me:

Why does the WA Law state 33. Special provision for greyhounds(1) <b>A greyhound must be muzzled in such a manner as will prevent it from biting a person</b>

How is this wording appropriate when Greyhounds are amongst the least likely breed to bite a person?

Why is a resource guarding test appropriate in an assessment that seeks to determine if a dog can be off muzzle outside of the home?

Sorry, I don't buy the black bags argument being put forward ITT which tellingly, you didn't comment on even though it is an outlandish and fanciful attempt to explain a scenario which never happens. And yet the requirement for the assessment is now codified.

Just because something is sanctioned doesn't make it right.

Like in any form of human endeavour, if the inputs are wrong, you will not achieve the desired outputs.

Look at the RSPCA. They have temp testing...

... that result in KILL RATES in the mid-to high forty percentiles.

Sorry, I don't buy that one either. It is their inputs that result in the high kill-rate outputs.

I've stated ITT before, train the handler as part of temp testing in the dogs normal environment. Have the Greyhound Racing Industry pay for it. After all, there seems to be general agreement in this thread that the Greyhound Racing Industry cause the behavioural issues in the first place.

Just a single example, when I handle an ex-racer with super high prey drive, like a good driver that looks up ahead, I look for and fast movement in front of me and when I see it, I immediately reverse direction. The reason I do this is to PREVENT the dog from becoming overly excited in the first place and so I can practice lead training at the same time. If a situation develops too quickly for me to react to and the dog does become excited, I shorten the lead to about 7cm from the neck and turn in the opposite direction and lead the dog away. It is not too hard to apply common sense to these situations.

Over time, I exposé the dog to more and more situations that test its behaviour in real world situations, in its own environment. I see the progress the dog has made over time (it is truly remarkable how much a high drive dog can change with a thoughtful approach). Then I can provide a detailed run down of the dogs behaviour to the new owner based on observations collected over months.

Given that temp testing is a point in time snapshot but behavioural development occurs over time, why not have the Greyhound Racing industry, which inflicts so much damage on the dogs, pay for an extended foster program and foster caring training?

Why not separate GAP from the industry and have a body INDEPENDENT from the Greyhound Racing Industry award funding for Greyhound re-homing to the most worthy providers of Greyhound re-homing?

The 4 Corners program only exposed some of the dirty secrets that the general public were not aware of, but are now outraged by.

What comes of all of the investigations and enquiries will be a step forward in Greyhound welfare and now is a unique time in the tawdry sports history to either shut it down (IMO won't happen... yet) or to make significant changes resulting in better welfare arrangements for the breed.

For once and for all, please don't tell me I am against temp testing or I don't know the difference between aggression and prey-drive as it does not help the discussion to move forward around how you can help to improve the welfare of Greyhounds.

We have all, already seen that the status-quo produces woeful dog welfare outcomes, that the industry is not to be trusted with dog welfare and the time is now for new ideas around improvements that will make a positive difference to the welfare of the breed.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Greyt

[mita]

Animals Australia have come thro' well. They have a page on their website advocating for the fostering and rehoming of greyhounds. They have links to individual greyhound rescues. There's also information on the history of the breed & on its nature.

If only this could be got onto a 4 Corners program. Or coordinated into a public campaign:

http://www.animalsaustralia.org/features/guide-foster-adopt-greyhound.php

Edited February 23, 2015 by mita

[Maddy]

When the industry and government sanctions keeping Greyhounds cooped up in tiny cages for 20 hours per day, could there be an alternative approach to allowing this to go on, then temp testing?

Temperament testing is done by all reputable rescues, regardless of breed, where the dogs came from or how they were raised. Temperament testing is NOT done because of how racing greyhounds are kept. I feel like a broken record here but you seem to keep missing this point, over and over again.

Why is it a given that the dogs are allowed to get to that point in the first place?

Get to what point? Most of the greyhounds I've assessed have been lovely dogs with probably less issues overall than the "pet" breeds I've dealt with.

Providing temp testing has always been done when re-homing Greyhounds, and nobody ITT is suggesting it shouldn't be done.

Except you.

Why does the WA Law state Special provision for greyhounds A greyhound must be muzzled in such a manner as will prevent it from biting a person.

How is this wording appropriate when Greyhounds are amongst the least likely breed to bite a person?

The legislation is entirely irrelevant here so I don't know why you keep pushing that issue. Old legislation is not the reason anyone tests and it has nothing to do with any of this.

Why is a resource guarding test appropriate in an assessment that seeks to determine if a dog can be off muzzle outside of the home?

Did we not just cover this? Like.. two posts ago. Resource guarding makes up part of a larger assessment that determines what home the dog is suitable for, it has NOTHING to do with muzzling.

Sorry, I don't buy the black bags argument being put forward ITT which tellingly, you didn't comment on even though it is an outlandish and fanciful attempt to explain a scenario which never happens. And yet the requirement for the assessment is now codified.

Your reading skills could do with some work. I did reply and once again, you ignored it (seeing a theme here?) to go off on some other nut hunt.

Dogs who bite children often end up being returned to rescue or PTS. Go to any pound and there will be dogs in there who have nipped kids (and were surrendered for it).

Just because something is sanctioned doesn't make it right.

So you're saying- a few breaths after saying you don't disagree with temperament testing- that you do disagree with temperament testing? Right.

Look at the RSPCA. They have temp testing... ... that result in KILL RATES in the mid-to high forty percentiles.

If you're going to suggest that the RSPCA put down 40% of all unclaimed animals based soley on temperament testing, I'm afraid you're going to have to back that up with some evidence because it smell like bullsh*t. Not that it matters anyway. Greyhound rescue groups aren't the RSPCA.

Just a single example, when I handle an ex-racer with super high prey drive, like a good driver that looks up ahead, I look for and fast movement in front of me and when I see it, I immediately reverse direction. The reason I do this is to PREVENT the dog from becoming overly excited in the first place and so I can practice lead training at the same time. If a situation develops too quickly for me to react to and the dog does become excited, I shorten the lead to about 7cm from the neck and turn in the opposite direction and lead the dog away. It is not too hard to apply common sense to these situations.

Over time, I exposé the dog to more and more situations that test its behaviour in real world situations, in its own environment. I see the progress the dog has made over time (it is truly remarkable how much a high drive dog can change with a thoughtful approach). Then I can provide a detailed run down of the dogs behaviour to the new owner based on observations collected over months.

And here we come to the crux of the matter.. the old "prey drive can be trained out" line, used as justification for why everything with a pulse gets rehomed, and coincidentally, why incidents of greyhounds chasing and killing small dogs happen. To be honest, I had a feeling it was going to come down to this. If you can remove a dog's most basic of instincts with just simple methods, I'm sure rehoming programs all country would love to hear from you.

For once and for all, please don't tell me I am against temp testing or I don't know the difference between aggression and prey-drive as it does not help the discussion to move forward around how you can help to improve the welfare of Greyhounds.

You have to be joking. Do you want to know what I do for the welfare of greyhounds, besides putting my life into rehoming them? I deal with people like you- people who would damage the reputation of the breed because they are too willfully ignorant to educate themselves, even though they obviously have absolutely no idea. What a joke.

[Greyt]

A lot of people have worked very hard for a long time to change the public's perception of Greyhounds and to change muzzling laws. It only takes a few nasty incidents to undo all that good work.

I agree entirely.

FWIW,I never once took my fosters out for a walk without a muzzle.

That said, I find many of the tests that make up the assessment have no bearing on weather a dog should be allowed out without a muzzle.

And to have the tests done in a strange environment, without the owner present in atypical situations... well, I won't go on.

Which tests would those be?

Well look at the WA Law Here:

33. Special provision for greyhounds

(1) A greyhound must be muzzled in such a

manner as will prevent it from biting a person

or animal unless:

(a) it is in or at premises occupied by its

owner; or

(b) it has successfully completed a prescribed

training programme.

Is there a body of evidence suggesting that Greyhounds bite people more than other dogs do?

And yet here is the law..."must be muzzled in such a

manner as will prevent it from biting a person"

Any test that needs to asses Greyhounds to ensure they will not bite humans in my opinion is way off base.

Just my opinion, by I think all new owners should be given access to a course with supplementary reading material, videos etc explaining how to be a wonderful handler... and it should be paid for IMO by the industry. Assessing a dog out of its home environment eg at a kennel for 4 days will not always produce a result consistent with the dogs everyday behaviour at home (IMO)

I know great strides forward have been made and sooo much effort have been put in by sooo many people and I don't want to see any backward steps at all.

*facepalm*

Firstly, regurgitating legislation at me isn't answering my question and neither is making bizarre claims about the purpose of testing.

You seem to keep not understanding that the tests have no more to do with human aggression than a standard test for any breed. The point of testing is to assess a number of behaviours in each dog to work out what (if anything) needs addressing, to help pick the most suitable foster home and eventually, for selecting final home.

Testing is done to ensure the best possible outcome and it's beyond me how anyone could disagree with it.

*facepalm x 100*

There ii is in black and white. It is, as Paul Keating may put it. law.. L-A-W

Let me break it down into its 2 parts.

(A) A greyhound must be muzzled in such a

manner as will prevent it from biting a person

(B)(1) A greyhound must be muzzled in such amanner as will prevent it from biting a (sic)

or animal unless:

The law was enacted in 2013. Presumably, parliaments should have be far more enlightened in 2013 around greyhound behaviour than they were when the original laws were enacted.

And yet,in 2013, an Australian parliament enacts a law that says:

A) A greyhound must be muzzled in such a

manner as will prevent it from biting a person

I would have thought it would be pretty simple to provide an explanation.

Please stop saying I disagree with temp testing.

I can see why resource guarding is an important part of a temp test applied to any breed including greyhounds for the purposes of re-homing.

Green collar assessments however are used to determine the suitability for a greyhound to be taken into public areas without being muzzled. So why is resource guarding part of the green collar assessment? Simple question.

It is important to remember that greyhounds are re-homed outside of the GAP program and their is no requirement for greyhounds to be green collar tested if the owner is willing to have a lead and muzzle outside of the home or have a dog on the property full time.

[aussielover]

Resource guarding is not restricted to food

Have you not see dog fights caused by resource guarding at dog parks etc?

What happens if a child tries to take away the dogs toy at a off leash area

Resource guarding can also include guarding of owners so a dog may snap or attack if someone else approaches the owner.

Reasons which I assume it is included in green collar testing.

Edited February 23, 2015 by aussielover

[HazyWal]

Greyt, did you even read my post? No other breed of dog is raised in the way Greyhounds are, and then expected to become good family pets. The fact that so many DO make good family pets is a testament the to the breed. Of course they need to be temperament tested before being rehomed. There is no way I would recommend anyone adopt any adult dog that hadn't been properly temperament tested.

And I think you need to do more research on what temperament testing is. It is not black and white, pass or fail. A good temp test is meant to find out information about the dog, what it tolerates, and what areas it needs work. From there, the dog can be trained, put into foster care, etc. Of course it is not a fool proof method, but it is the best we can do. Putting untested dogs out into the community is stupid and dangerous, for the public and for the Greyhound breed.

Exactly this. The temperament assessment we use acts as a guide as to what home the dog would be best suited to. Will a dog fail our assessment for resource guarding? No - not unless he actually tries to attack us. But what this part of our assessment does show us is that if he growls when we come near him when he is eating, then he's probably not suitable for a home with small children who won't understand to leave him alone when he has his dinner.

Greyt did you even bother to read Gapvic's post concerning resource guarding?

[Maddy]

Greyt, I can't be bothered with you any further.

Either you are being deliberately obtuse or you are simply incapable of understanding. Whichever it is, I'm done.

You have ignored information provided, you keep repeating pointless things (with piles of annoying font formatting) that have nothing to do with the issues in question and frankly, you've railroaded the thread into your own crazy circus.

If anyone is drawing attention away from the original issue, it's you.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Maddy

[mita]

And well done, too, Animal Liberation Qld. They've got a topic & video on their Facebook page... headed what everyone should know about greyhounds.

The video was produced by Animals Australia & clearly states that greys have become victims, too, by the ugly live baiting training. They say it's shameful to do this to a breed that has the capacity to be a gentle companion dog. The video has scenes of greys being just that.

Best thing is that people who already own greys as pets are posting they're grateful to see this view, getting into the public arena.

Looks like both Animals Australia & Animal Liberation Qld are both doing what I'd hope.

https://www.facebook.com/animalliberationqld

Edited February 23, 2015 by mita