Four Corners: Greyhound Racing: Live Baiting Revelations

[HazyWal]

[

But see greyhounds aren't the "same as any dog" they are the fastest dog on the planet and nothing on this earth will out run a determined greyhound, except in Stan's case being a fence and a fractured skull. Add to that most of them have terrible recall.

Poor Stan! Did he have a puzzled look, 'Why did that fence attack me?'

Boofy the rescued grey next door was good coming to answer his name from sleeping on the couch or watching TV.

We'd call his name at the fenceline... & there'd be a long pause...then Boofy would appear, plodding like a mastiff instead of a greyhound. He loved a pat & a talk. Then he'd plod off back to his couch. He was still a baby, only 3 years old & huge. He was rescued from being shot because he was hopeless at running. He wasn't flash at walking, either. :) Everyone adored him!

He was millimetres from being killed instantly.

Sounds like Boofy is related to Stanley, exercise is not on the top of his list of things to do lol

[Greyt]

And I stand by mine soooooo round and round we go. Unless the mods think my comment above was inappropriate, to which they would then delete it because they can, how you feel about it means jack to me really.

I don't expect that you care for me or what I think one little bit and that is your right.

Your comments that the people you referred to have NFI as you put it, speak for themselves.

Let me explain,

I feel those same people want the very best welfare outcomes for Greyhounds. They want Greyhounds to stop living in little cages for 20 hours per day, they want to stop the mass disposal of vigorous, healthy Greyhounds that occur year after year. They want to stop the live baiting and the doping and the pathetic diets.

To say that those same people have NFI is to directly or indirectly support an industry where all of the above occurs on a daily basis. And to completely misunderstand the aims and motivations of the very people that are actively trying to eliminate anti-animal welfare practices

Even if all live baiting is stamped out today, we still have an industry that fails dismally on the welfare of dogs in its care and kills thousands upon thousands of healthy greyhounds every year because they are excess to the sports requirements.

That is what I care about.

In terms of going around and around on a topic, we don't seem to be going around and around on the anti welfare practices perpetuated by the industry and how we can all stamp it out forever.

As much as you will probably deride me, I would genuinely like to hear your views on that.

[Rascalmyshadow]

OMG I'm not sure if I'm following these posts correctly but if I am and anyone thinks its better these dogs get left to live such appalling lives rather than being rehomed or humanely PTS, I am completely mortified and shocked.

As for prey drive its such an individual thing within every breed, we have quite a few greys and whippets in our area (all pets) and most of them get off leash and come back when they're called, they aren't running around killing everything that moves.

At one stage we had two mini poodles, a standard poodle, an afghan and a foster grey. The poodles would chase and kill any small animals but had good recall, the afghan didn't chase anything but had no recall, the grey wouldn't chase anything and had just as good recall as the poodles!

All different sight hounds all different backgrounds.

If every greyhound has high prey drive then why are so many killed for not wanting to race?

[Maddy]

OMG I'm not sure if I'm following these posts correctly but if I am and anyone thinks its better these dogs get left to live such appalling lives rather than being rehomed or humanely PTS, I am completely mortified and shocked.

Greyt was trying to make it sound as if that's what others were saying but it is absolutely not the case. No one here wants to see the welfare of these dogs compromised, especially not those of us who actually rescue.

If every greyhound has high prey drive then why are so many killed for not wanting to race?

Prey drive is just one of many factors that determine a dog's success. Motivation to chase has to exist beside physical fitness and correct conformation.

[Greyt]

OMG I'm not sure if I'm following these posts correctly but if I am and anyone thinks its better these dogs get left to live such appalling lives rather than being rehomed or humanely PTS, I am completely mortified and shocked.

If every greyhound has high prey drive then why are so many killed for not wanting to race?

You are reading the posts correctly, not many ITT have stated what they do believe in when it comes to ending not only live baiting but other, equally horrible behaviour that goes on in the industry, yet that knowledge is widely known inside the industry.

Now is time to make it known to the wider public. I am perplexed about a lot of the comments ITT. Not being affiliated with any group, but loving Greyhounds it is hard for me to understand why there are not more calls here, of all places, to end the killing and deplorable practices.

I am aware that there are some people involved in Greyhound Rescue that dedicate their life to re-homing the ones that make it out alive. Perhaps they get their dogs from the more ethical trainers (there are many in the industry) and are worried about being cut off. There are others whose organisations are paid by the greyhound racing industry to re-home the lucky ones so they might feel it unethical to take the money for rescue but bad-mouth the industry for its nefarious practices. I know a lady in NSW who transports Greyhounds for a living (indirectly drawing her income from the industry) and rescues where she can. In her mind, she personally does what she can (a great deal at that) and that is good enough for her.

I don't know any of the posters ITT and nobody has PM'd me so I really don't know their circumstances and if they have reasons for not talking, personal to them. I suspect many of them do.

But it is silence and systematic hiding of the truth from the general public that means the industry kills in numbers that make the rescue numbers look paltry year after year and the conditions most greyhounds live in are deplorable, their diets appalling etc.

To me, these are the big picture items and nobody ITT, to my recall has tried to say they are not true.

if there was ever a time in the last 75 years to end the silence and improve the lot of Greyhounds by telling the public about the whole story it is now.

Now, is the time.

Unfortunately the silence is almost deafening.

As to prey drive, their is not to my limited knowledge a direct correlation between, high prey drive and speed. At the end of the day, speed is what most counts. If a Greyhound is not speedy enough their is a VERY high chance that it will be disposed of.

[Rascalmyshadow]

I assumed speed is the most important thing for racing but I would imagine without decent prey drive these dogs would not want to chase/race.

An ex friend of mine bought a greyhound property a few years ago to turn into boarding kennels, for the first 6-8 months of her owning it the original owners greys were still kept there. I visited regularly and every time I came home I was a mess, hearing the poor dogs crying/barking knowing they were kept in a concrete prison with not even a window to look out made me sick.

There was a litter of about 9 or so pups kept out in a paddock with a couple of kennels and metal drums to sleep in all without any bedding, the poor babies were just craving human attention but no one gave a crap.

I would go and try to give them all a cuddle but it hurt a lot to walk away and know their fate.

As nice as it would be for all these ex racers to get wonderful homes if that is not possible then PTS is a much better option than the life I've seen them lead.

[Maddy]

I assumed speed is the most important thing for racing but I would imagine without decent prey drive these dogs would not want to chase/race.

An ex friend of mine bought a greyhound property a few years ago to turn into boarding kennels, for the first 6-8 months of her owning it the original owners greys were still kept there. I visited regularly and every time I came home I was a mess, hearing the poor dogs crying/barking knowing they were kept in a concrete prison with not even a window to look out made me sick.

There was a litter of about 9 or so pups kept out in a paddock with a couple of kennels and metal drums to sleep in all without any bedding, the poor babies were just craving human attention but no one gave a crap.

I would go and try to give them all a cuddle but it hurt a lot to walk away and know their fate.

As nice as it would be for all these ex racers to get wonderful homes if that is not possible then PTS is a much better option than the life I've seen them lead.

A lot of greyhound properties definitely leave a lot to be desired but then again, the same could be said for some (well respected) registered breeders :/ I can think of a very good example there but the breeder in question is a member of Dol so.. not touching that one.

Standards in general (not just for greyhounds) need to be looked at but I can't see it happening any time soon.

[Greyt]

I assumed speed is the most important thing for racing but I would imagine without decent prey drive these dogs would not want to chase/race.

An ex friend of mine bought a greyhound property a few years ago to turn into boarding kennels, for the first 6-8 months of her owning it the original owners greys were still kept there. I visited regularly and every time I came home I was a mess, hearing the poor dogs crying/barking knowing they were kept in a concrete prison with not even a window to look out made me sick.

There was a litter of about 9 or so pups kept out in a paddock with a couple of kennels and metal drums to sleep in all without any bedding, the poor babies were just craving human attention but no one gave a crap.

I would go and try to give them all a cuddle but it hurt a lot to walk away and know their fate.

As nice as it would be for all these ex racers to get wonderful homes if that is not possible then PTS is a much better option than the life I've seen them lead.

Your story is heartbreaking for me.

Keeping greyhounds in tiny enclosures however is legal. As much as it is legal, it is shocking to me. And so is the number of dogs that are made to disappear if they are not fast enough. A single man in England was once convicted of Killing 10,000 Greyhounds. I have seen footage of healthy, beautiful dogs in the USA whose trainers paint their head with a big letter "E" (for euth). When the trainer walks by, the dog is so happy to see him.. just like my dogs are to see me when I come home (pat please, pat please!!) Then, they are taken out the back of the property by another man and shot in the head. Then they are put in a big plastic bag and dumped in a dumpster.

They are examples from overseas. A trainer from Australia recently gave evidence to a parliamentary enquiry stating he knows the same thing happens here. The cost? $50

Rampant overbreeding and money only being paid to the place getters (I think up to 8 race but only 3 owners get paid) are largely the pre-cursers here but other factors such as injury (racing life causes a huge number of can't race again or straight out PTS scenarios) play a part too.

Greyhounds are a goofy breed and many just HATE to lose a race - many, if they see a dog in front, they want to catch it - sometimes they want to bite it.They want to win, not for chasing the lure but to be the one the others have to catch - the fastest. Prey drive itself is not consistent within the breed. Some Greyhounds seem to have none whist others clearly have a way above average level. ETA, On average, the Greyhound breed has higher levels of prey drive than other breeds.But for example, a high drive dog with a horrible running action will be slow and subject to the big painted "E" (so to speak).

It is truly horrible.

Edited February 24, 2015 by Greyt

[labadore]

You are reading the posts correctly, not many ITT have stated what they do believe in when it comes to ending not only live baiting but other, equally horrible behaviour that goes on in the industry, yet that knowledge is widely known inside the industry.

Now is time to make it known to the wider public. I am perplexed about a lot of the comments ITT. Not being affiliated with any group, but loving Greyhounds it is hard for me to understand why there are not more calls here, of all places, to end the killing and deplorable practices.

But it is silence and systematic hiding of the truth from the general public that means the industry kills in numbers that make the rescue numbers look paltry year after year and the conditions most greyhounds live in are deplorable, their diets appalling etc.

Greyt, I understand your passion for your breed and being upset at the terrible lives these poor unfortunate greyhounds born into the greyhound racing industry live and there are many of us equally horrified at what goes on in the greyhound racing industry and would like to see wide ranging improvements in the welfare of these poor greyhounds or preferably, the industry shutdown. There are things going on in the background with regards to govt inquiries into the greyhound industry both before and after the Four Corners expose. Last year in NSW, a Legislative Council inquiry was conducted by a Select Committee on Greyhound Racing in New South Wales to inquire into and report on greyhound racing in New South Wales. The Terms of Reference for this inquiry were:

(a) The economic viability of the greyhound racing industry in New South Wales

(b) The financial performance and conduct of the industry and of Greyhound Racing NSW including a comparison to other states of Australia

© Government initiatives and assistance measures to support the industry and comparison of assistance to other racing codes

(d) The effectiveness of current industry regulation, including the level of autonomy of Greyhound Racing NSW

(e) The selection process for the board of Greyhound Racing NSW

(f) The effectiveness and accountability of the board and management of Greyhound Racing NSW

(g) The effectiveness of the current arrangements for, and role of, the Integrity Auditor of Greyhound Racing NSW

(h) The capability and performance of Greyhound Racing NSW and governance of the industry

(i) The incidence of drug administration and doping in the industry and the efficacy of Greyhound Racing NSW’s control and testing processes

(j) Sale and breeding of greyhounds including the market conditions and welfare of

animals

(k) The welfare of animals in the industry and the role of Greyhound Racing NSW in establishing and enforcing standards of treatment of animals

(l) Financial incentives for reducing euthanasia and prosecutions for animal mistreatment

(m) The adequacy and integrity of data collection in the industry, including the number of pups born, the number of dogs euthanased and injury rates, and

(n) Any other related matter.

The above inquiry resulted in two reports being prepared by the Committee for the NSW Govt, with first report (largest of the two)finalised on 28/3/2014 and second report finalised on 16/10/2014. The NSW Govt responded in September 2014 to the first report and so far no govt response has been received on the 2nd report and I believe this response will probably be further delayed by the separate independent inquiry by NSW Govt appointed High Court justice Michael McHugh as a direct response to the Four Corners expose. The reports and govt response from the inquiry last year make very interesting reading and can be found on the website in the following link under the "Reports and Government Responses" section and these reports can be downloaded as well. There are also a number of other documents and submissions included on the website:

NSW Govt Inquiry into Greyhound Racing in 2014

If you read these reports, all the concerns regarding the welfare of the greyhounds including, the doping, the live baiting, breeding, high kill rates, socialisation, kennel inspections, registration and licensing regimes, rehoming etc have been tabled and responded to and I am sure these reports and responses will be referenced by justice Michael McHugh's in his inquiry.

In addition, in December 2014, "The NSW Office of Liquor, Gaming and Racing (OLGR) began reviewing the Greyhound Racing Act 2009 pursuant to section 49 of that Act. The purpose of the review is to determine whether the policy objectives of the Act remain valid and whether the terms of the Act remain appropriate for securing those objectives." They have now extended the date for submissions for this review to 2 March 2015. Links as follows:

Office of Liquor, Gaming and Racing

Greyhound Racing Act 2009

Discussion Paper for Review of the Greyhound Racing Act 2009

NSW is only one State, with various inquiries and reviews into the Greyhound Racing Industry in NSW and latest independent inquiry by High Court justice Michael McHugh is as a result of the Four Corners expose and the public outrage it caused. The NSW Govt acted quickly by appointing Justice Michael McHugh and expanding his independent inquiry and sacking the Greyhound NSW Board as there is a State election next month (28/3/2015) :D Other States have also initiated different inquiries/actions, so you should check what is happening in your State and get involved in helping bring about change for your breed involved in the greyhound racing industry. :)

With the spotlight fairly and squarely on the Greyhound Racing Industry, it will be very interesting to see what the various state govts do about this industry once all the relevant inquiries have been conducted and finalised. Doing nothing should not be an option and the public outrage needs to continue being very vocal to help bring about the changes required.

[labadore]

Article published and updated on abc.net.au last night:

Greyhound racing: Victorian industry 'in doubt' without changes in light of live baiting scandal

There will be no future for greyhound racing if the industry does not clean up its act in the wake of the live baiting scandal, Victoria's Racing Minister says.

Yesterday the chairman of Greyhound Racing Victoria resigned in response to a Four Corners report that revealed disturbing footage of dogs chasing piglets, rabbits and possums and mauling them to death.

On the weekend, GRV reversed its earlier decision to ban from racing the greyhounds of 15 suspended trainers under the condition that the owners signed statutory declarations that they had made "reasonable inquiries" that their dogs were not involved with live baiting.

Racing Minister Martin Pakula said in the next two weeks the Government would recieve two interim reports into the use of live baiting.

"We have two reports, one from the chief veterinarian and one from the Racing Integrity Commissioner, on their way," Mr Pakula said.

"I think then we'll have a clearer picture as to how widespread or otherwise this disgusting practice has been.

"People will be judged on what they do, not what they say.

"Greyhound racing is in a very parlous situation at the moment and if they don't clean up their act, the future of the sport is very dubious indeed."

Mr Pakula said outgoing GRV chairman Peter Caillard implemented many changes to fight an "entrenched culture" within the industry, and his replacement would need to continue that work.

"The people in greyhound racing need to appreciate that if they do not change their ways, then the code will have no future," Mr Pakula said.

"It's in their own interest, and not just the Victorian community and those that love racing, to clean up their act.

"It won't be a matter for a minister or a board to just shut them down.

"The fact is we've already seen sponsors walking away in droves, we've seen public opinion turn very sharply."

Mr Pakula said he also wanted to close a loophole that resulted in a dog trained by one of those under investigation winning $30,000 in prize money at the weekend.

The trainer transferred the ownership of the dog into his wife's name so it could compete.

"It's my understanding that [Greyhound Racing Victoria] received very firm legal advice that they didn't have the powers to suspend the dogs themselves, as distinct from suspending the trainers," he said.

"I think that demonstrates a gap in the Racing Act and in the rules of greyhound racing, and I've asked the department to tell me how those gaps can be closed."

Outgoing chairman says industry can change

Former premier Denis Napthine said no concerns were raised with him about live baiting during his time as racing minister.

"Live baiting is illegal, it is barbaric, it is cruel, it is disgraceful," he said.

"People involved ought to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and I believe they should be banned, not only from greyhound racing, but from owning animals for the rest of their lives."

Speaking to 774 ABC Melbourne, Mr Caillard said if the issues raised by Four Corners had been brought to his attention earlier, he could have stopped it.

There were issues of betting by staff, I banned betting; there were issues over ownership of dogs [by people regulating the industry], I banned dogs.

Peter Caillard, outgoing Greyhound Racing Victoria chairman

He said he was resigning to give the industry a clean start.

"Now public confidence in greyhound racing has been called into question and I believe in the accountability of the chairman."

Mr Caillard took over as chairman in 2012 following in an ombudsman report into problems within the industry.

"There were issues of betting by staff, I banned betting; there were issues over ownership of dogs [by people regulating the industry], I banned dogs," he said.

"Now staff at GRV cannot bet and they cannot own dogs, but it was a hard time and the whole structure was changed dramatically.

"It's shown it can change dramatically but I wish the issue of live baiting had been detected and brought to my attention."

He welcomed the report by the Racing Integrity Commissioner but said he did not believe live baiting was widespread.

"The vast majority of people in racing are good people and do the right thing."

[Greyt]

@labadore,

Thank you so much for the information.

The ABC report I am sure will give more weight to the submissions that have reported deplorable conditions and behaviour in a way that only words could not.

The Victorian Racing Minister's statement is probably the first forthright, plain English, tell it like it is statement I have ever read on the matter. It is so refreshing that the silence has been broken.

It is not all plain sailing though.

Meanwhile, here is what my local Member in QLD wrote to me when replying to my email asking for strong action,

(Quote)However, it's important that we don't see a knee jerk reaction by the government that could potentially hurt an industry that provides thousands of jobs and contributes billions of dollars to the economy.

While in Government, the LNP had a proud history of working with the RSPCA and other animal welfare organisations to protect animals across our state.I've taken the liberty of forwarding your concerns to the Queensland Minister responsible for racing, the Hon. Bill Byrne MP and asked him to respond to you directly." (end quote)

Wholly disappointing.

I am very thankful for all of the work that has been done by those that have agitated for change - bit by bit, it is already making a change for the better.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Greyt

[sandgrubber]

I've only just skimmed these pages, but I'm reminded of the RSPCA's second big campaign: that to outlaw cart dogs in England (back around 1840). Yes, many cart dogs were abused. But cart dogs were mostly owned by the poor and served an economic role. Many of them lived with families who couldn't afford to keep them as pets only. So when cart dogs were banned, tens of thousands of dogs were turned 'free' to roam the streets, starve, cause problems, and be killed. This article says 100,000 dogs were killed in the first year after cart dogs were banned.

http://messybeast.com/history/dogcarts.htm

Edited February 25, 2015 by sandgrubber

[Greyt]

I've only just skimmed these pages, but I'm reminded of the RSPCA's second big campaign: that to outlaw cart dogs in England (back around 1840). Yes, many cart dogs were abused. But cart dogs were mostly owned by the poor and served an economic role. Many of them lived with families who couldn't afford to keep them as pets only. So when cart dogs were banned, tens of thousands of dogs were turned 'free' to roam the streets, starve, cause problems, and be killed. This article says 100,000 dogs were killed in the first year after cart dogs were banned.

http://messybeast.co...ry/dogcarts.htm

Your story reminds me of another UK story, this one from 2010. The story describes the horrible conditions in which Greyhounds were kept. The headline is, "Agony of Caged Greyhounds" An activist group filmed Greyhounds left suffering with open wounds and struggling to find food. Prior to the footage being aired, the RSPCA (UK) determined during four separate visits, the condition of all the dogs and their environment was found to be of the highest order".

http://www.express.c...aged-greyhounds

In turn, that reminds me of a similar discovery in just 2013 here in Australia. From memory, about 20 starving Greyhounds, many with un-treated open-wounds were being kept on a farm. The mal-nourishment and mal-treatment as stark and deplorable. Due to the incredible commitment of local rescuers and many wonderful fosters and first time owners as well as community donations and discounted or no-cost vet care, most were treated, rehabilitated and re-homed.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Greyt

[Greyt]

@ sandgrubber.

Greyhound racing has now been banned in 39 of the 50 states in the US.

Can you let us know if there have been any reports of live-baiting, over breeding or mass disposal in any of the states that have banned racing, say five years after the bans came in to effect..

Since your location is Florida, you might know something we don't.

[labadore]

I've only just skimmed these pages, but I'm reminded of the RSPCA's second big campaign: that to outlaw cart dogs in England (back around 1840). Yes, many cart dogs were abused. But cart dogs were mostly owned by the poor and served an economic role. Many of them lived with families who couldn't afford to keep them as pets only. So when cart dogs were banned, tens of thousands of dogs were turned 'free' to roam the streets, starve, cause problems, and be killed. This article says 100,000 dogs were killed in the first year after cart dogs were banned.

http://messybeast.com/history/dogcarts.htm

Seriously, how can you compare what happened over 170 years ago with today. I will resist the urge to go into detailed comparisons IF (I wouldn't hold my breath), the greyhound racing industry in Australia was shutdown either by individual States or Nationally, I am sure it would probably be a "phased" approach over a period of time (probably years) rather than shutting down "with effect tomorrow" approach. Either way, Greyhounds in this awful industry will suffer.

Given you are located in the States it would have been more helpful posting about how the shutdown/banning of the greyhound industry was handled in the U.S. rather than about something that happened over 170 years ago. From reading the following link about greyhound racing in the U.S.:

Greyhound Racing in the U.S.

In thirty-nine states, commercial dog racing is illegal.

In four states, all dog tracks have closed and ceased live racing, but a prohibitory statute has yet to be enacted. Those states are Oregon, Connecticut, Kansas and Wisconsin.

In just seven states, pari-mutuel dog racing remains legal and operational.

[labadore]

Article in The Age yesterday:

Are greyhounds nearing the end of their race?

Are greyhounds nearing the end of their race?

Date: February 26, 2015

They tried to blood my greyhound. They probably strung a live possum to a lure and goaded her to tear it asunder. But she didn't have the prey drive. She ran the wrong way. She was too small, too skittish. If they'd tried to race her, she'd have stopped every 20 metres to piss and seek pats from the punters. She would have been a disaster.

She was fortunate insofar that she fell into the small percentile – let's be generous and say one in 10 – of greyhounds that are re-homed. If she'd drawn the wrong card, she may have been hammered in the head or drowned. Because greyhounds have a generic blood type and prominent veins, she may have had her blood drained. Most likely, she'd have copped a bullet. "It cost $50 to get rid of them," one trainer told Fairfax Media. "They took the dogs out the back, shot them in the head and dropped the bodies in a deep pit."

Greyhounds sleep a lot. She slept through the ABC's Four Corners report into trainers engaged in the practice of live baiting. She slept through the news that the chairmen, integrity officers and entire boards of the sport's governing bodies had moved on. If news comes through that greyhound racing no longer exists in Australia, she'll probably be asleep for that as well.

In a country where sport wags the national dog, it's astonishing to contemplate one ceasing to exist. But greyhound racing has made itself an easy target, with allegations of bikie groups becoming involved in breeding, senior officials betting on races, dogs high on cocaine, viagra and methamphetamines.

Advertisement

A thousand years ago, only noblemen were permitted to own greyhounds. It was a capital offence to kill one. In modern Australia however, it is the sport of the lumpen. While horse racing is the sandpit of former casino bosses, ad men, mining magnates and the landed gentry, greyhound racing doesn't attract the A-listers. There is no public holiday for their Melbourne Cup. People don't don $3000 suits and congregate in the carpark of The Meadows.

Even the most reptilian of trainers are chasing the only livelihood they know. They regard those who want to shut them down as do-gooders, lefties, inner-city folk. They know – as everyone in the industry knows – that live baiting works. The dogs get their kill and run faster. It costs $50 per possum but, in a sport of tight margins, it pays dividends.

Following the Four Corners report, the various governing bodies issued typically anesthetic press releases. But reality set in when the sponsors dropped out. A 'shocked and appalled' Schweppes Australia abandoned the sport, together with McDonald's, Bendigo Bank and Hyundai. As casinos, pokies and sports betting continue to leach the gambling dollar, punters will be increasingly reluctant to wager on them. When it's just as easy to bet on a ping-pong tournament from Antwerp, sports such as greyhound racing must market themselves shrewdly and convince punters that their money won't be going down the toilet. There is scant chance of that now.

The Four Corners report, incredible journalism as it was, in many ways skewed the issue. Live baiting is an ethical no brainer. No otherwise sane person would argue it is acceptable. Whether the sport should exist in the first place, the welfare of the thousands of greyhounds that are whelped every year and our relationship with animals in general, are far more difficult questions to answer. It's very easy up on my high horse, of course. I bet on horses. I eat certain types of meat, eschew others. I duck, weave, bargain with myself and wrestle with all manner of contradictions. The live baiting footage, shamefully, angered me more than the imminent execution of two Australians in Indonesia.

But things change. Not long ago footy stars broke jaws, rearranged faces and glassed their partners. At the races, they brought out the rifle when a horse broke its leg. Yet even in 2015, we persist with sports that will seem abhorrent to future generations. You raced horses over hurdles? You let 100-kilogram men pummel one another in the head until they developed brain damage? In time, greyhound racing will surely seem like a throwback to the 19th century. Our grandkids will be incredulous when they learn we raced this gentle, snoozy breed, disposed of them en masse and blooded them in the boondocks.

Questions of integrity are not limited to greyhound racing, as followers of horse racing, cycling and our major football codes know too well. But those sports have political and economic clout. Greyhound racing, forever living on a thin line, is out of friends and out of excuses. They're still racing – at Dubbo, at Broadmeadows, at Ipswich. But for what purpose? At what cost? And for how much longer?

[Greyt]

Seriously, how can you compare what happened over 170 years ago with today. I will resist the urge to go into detailed comparisons IF (I wouldn't hold my breath), the greyhound racing industry in Australia was shutdown either by individual States or Nationally, I am sure it would probably be a "phased" approach over a period of time (probably years) rather than shutting down "with effect tomorrow" approach. Either way, Greyhounds in this awful industry will suffer.

Given you are located in the States it would have been more helpful posting about how the shutdown/banning of the greyhound industry was handled in the U.S. rather than about something that happened over 170 years ago. From reading the following link about greyhound racing in the U.S.:

Greyhound Racing in the U.S.

In thirty-nine states, commercial dog racing is illegal.

In four states, all dog tracks have closed and ceased live racing, but a prohibitory statute has yet to be enacted. Those states are Oregon, Connecticut, Kansas and Wisconsin.

In just seven states, pari-mutuel dog racing remains legal and operational.

Is it safe to assume that a cart dog-like epidemic didn't happen to Greyhounds when state-by-state, 39 states banned racing/betting on the dogs?

[sandgrubber]

I presented the cart-dog analogy more as an allegory than a studied case. Take home messages: beware of unintended consequences. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I've never been to a greyhound race and just get hand-me-down news about the greyhound racing industry here in Florida. It is controversial. The industry would have died long ago but for some peculiar legislation that allows gambling operations to exist if and only iff they maintain a racing track. This law is now being challenged. My region of Florida has no greyhound tracks, no breeders, and no relevance to the debate.

I formerly lived in a kennel zone in WA. Because that particular area wasn't too far from the track and had 5 acre parcels (good for having a track and providing growing pups with enclosures that encouraged sprinting), it attracted the greyhound industry. Many of neighbors bred, trained and raced greyhounds. An abrupt ban on racing would have ramifications for these guys. Some of them were attached to their dogs and I'm sure they would have done their utmost to adopt out dogs if the industry was suddenly terminated . . . and they would no doubt hang on to a few favorite dogs. Others were more mercenary and would probably have euth'd their dogs if they saw no economic future. Personally, I don't see a bullet as much different from the green dream. Nor do these guys. I expect that some 'disposal of surplus dogs' would have been done by methods that are considered inhumane.

Edited February 27, 2015 by sandgrubber

[*kirty*]

I don't know if I want Greyhound racing banned. I do want it to be much more regulated. I don't know how that will work. Greyhounds love to race. If the sport can be managed with animal welfare as priority then I have no problem with it.

[Greyt]

I presented the cart-dog analogy more as an allegory than a studied case. Take home messages: beware of unintended consequences. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I've never been to a greyhound race and just get hand-me-down news about the greyhound racing industry here in Florida. It is controversial. The industry would have died long ago but for some peculiar legislation that allows gambling operations to exist if and only iff they maintain a racing track. This law is now being challenged. My region of Florida has no greyhound tracks, no breeders, and no relevance to the debate.

I formerly lived in a kennel zone in WA. Because that particular area wasn't too far from the track and had 5 acre parcels (good for having a track and providing growing pups with enclosures that encouraged sprinting), it attracted the greyhound industry. Many of neighbors bred, trained and raced greyhounds. An abrupt ban on racing would have ramifications for these guys. Some of them were attached to their dogs and I'm sure they would have done their utmost to adopt out dogs if the industry was suddenly terminated . . . and they would no doubt hang on to a few favorite dogs. Others were more mercenary and would probably have euth'd their dogs if they saw no economic future. Personally, I don't see a bullet as much different from the green dream. Nor do these guys. I expect that some 'disposal of surplus dogs' would have been done by methods that are considered inhumane.

Unintended consequences can occur in any area of human endeavour, in the same way that a considered, well thought out, and well executed plan can bring about managed change that results in positive outcomes. There is no doubt that badly managed change can have devastating consequences so it is definitely time to put the thinking caps on in order to avoid a travesty.

It is interesting to me that in the US, where the tracks are privately run, many have shut down as they have been unable to make a dollar due to factors including that people prefer other forms of entertainment and a rising level of interest in animal welfare that has occurred at the same time. In Australia, despite numbers at the door decreasing markedly over the years, we have plans to open a new track in Logan, QLD but the land for the track will be gifted to the industry and considerable public $$$ will be spent to assist the development therein (it's a complicated deal that resulted in the closure of the Gold Coast trots and greyhounds track)..