Four Corners: Greyhound Racing: Live Baiting Revelations

[HazyWal]

Who cares if they have to wear a muzzle?? The dogs don't care one iota.

Exactly!

It was quite disappointing to see people on greyhound walks in two states over the weekend to "promote" the breed in the wake of the 4 Corners programme walking their greys unmuzzled and not green collared. If you want to walk your dog unmuzzled then go and get it assessed A friend called me today and told me about a few greys that got a leeeeetle bit too excited at the beach and attacked a small dog last week, they have been reported and so they should be...not one of these greys were green collared. What people don't realise that especially now when the spotlight is on greyhounds more than ever deciding they are above the law could very well see the green collar programme revoked at any time, how is that fair on the people that have paid to do the right thing?

[OSoSwift]

annnndddddd I don't see your point Greyt????

Edited February 23, 2015 by OSoSwift

[Greyt]

I understand that you use the green collar program to provide 2 assessments. 1 around re-homing and the other around wearing muzzles in public.

What are you on?

Coffee + nicotine. I don't have access to other forms of drugs and I would appreciate far more if you wanted to impute the character of the greyhound dopers and those connected to the industry that have stood by and watched all of the harm to the dogs in their care.

But please refrain from inferring anything about my character.

[Maddy]

Despite the fact that greyhounds are dogs and dogs are predators, they cannot believe a greyhound would willingly kill unless its brain had somehow been damaged by the training process and god forbid you even consider pointing out that some have such high levels of drive that they aren't even safe to rehome.

I've explained again and again that greyhounds are a breed that was developed for prey drive, keenness to chase was a trait selected for over many generations and they simply can't be compared to something like a labrador (or pick your pet breed of dog) or treated in the same way.

I pick,

Afghan

Basenji

Borzoi

Deerhound

Ibizan

Irish Wolfhound

Italian Greyhound

Pharoah Hound

Saluki

Whippett

All fast, all bred to hunt independently, lots have terrible recall.

None are routinely kept in tiny cages for 20 hours per day.

Kirty sums it up well, "As for your other comments, of course their behaviour is due to their upbringing. Everybody knows that. The same is true for all dogs. However no other breed of dog is routinely raised in kennels and runs, not properly trained or socialised, taught to chase and potentially kill small animals - and then turfed out into the community. When raised as a pet as part of a family, they are no different to any other dog. But when raised in the manner described above, care must be taken when rehoming."

All sighthounds and all have higher prey drive. And for all of them, testing the level of that drive before placing them in a home with cats would be the sensible thing to do.

I'd disagree that greyhounds raised in homes are somehow different- I have a greyhound who was raised as a pet from 13 weeks of age- he still has prey drive. He was never taught to chase anything but if given the chance, he would. Greyhounds are greyhounds. If you can't respect the breed for what it is, you shouldn't be involved in rehoming them.

[The Spotted Devil]

The chairman of GRV has resigned.

Edited February 23, 2015 by The Spotted Devil

[Greyt]

annnndddddd I don't see your point Greyt????

My point is that all of the sighthounds, only Greyhounds are routinely treated so poorly and cruelly that some develop behavioural issues as a result of how the greyhound industry houses them, trains them, feeds them etc

Change the way greyhounds are treated in the first place and you will reduce the number of behavioural problems they present with.

[OSoSwift]

yes this is true, however they are raised differently and are trained to chase - which some other sighthounds do for fun ie lurecoursing etc. But due to the fact they are raised differently I believe they should be routinely temp tested, as should any dog that is put through a rescue or shelter regardless of breed, and I do believe resource guarding is very important.

I have Whippets that will chase a bunny but wouldn't dream of chasing the cat and have stood there while guinea pigs ran around their feet, after being told to leave them, whilst I tried to catch them. Mine will also call off chasing a rabbit. Most Greys in training do not get taught the basics of average living so there needs to be some sort of steps they need to get through before they become pets. I also believe not every dog, grey or other, should be rehomed as I do not believe that everything can be trained out of them.

Edited February 23, 2015 by OSoSwift

[Greyt]

All sighthounds and all have higher prey drive. And for all of them, testing the level of that drive before placing them in a home with cats would be the sensible thing to do.

I'd disagree that greyhounds raised in homes are somehow different- I have a greyhound who was raised as a pet from 13 weeks of age- he still has prey drive. He was never taught to chase anything but if given the chance, he would. Greyhounds are greyhounds. If you can't respect the breed for what it is, you shouldn't be involved in rehoming them.

Now, I don't respect the breed? Will it ever end?

If you believe that greyhounds should be kept in tiny cages or runs their whole life while in training, please just say it.

If you believe that keeping greyhounds in tiny cages or runs their whole life while in training does not produce a greater preponderance of behavioural issues vs the way we normally raise pets please just say it.

[Maddy]

All sighthounds and all have higher prey drive. And for all of them, testing the level of that drive before placing them in a home with cats would be the sensible thing to do.

I'd disagree that greyhounds raised in homes are somehow different- I have a greyhound who was raised as a pet from 13 weeks of age- he still has prey drive. He was never taught to chase anything but if given the chance, he would. Greyhounds are greyhounds. If you can't respect the breed for what it is, you shouldn't be involved in rehoming them.

Now, I don't respect the breed? Will it ever end?

If you believe that greyhounds should be kept in tiny cages or runs their whole life while in training, please just say it.

If you believe that keeping greyhounds in tiny cages or runs their whole life while in training does not produce a greater preponderance of behavioural issues vs the way we normally raise pets please just say it.

Where have I implied that? Oh, that's right, I haven't. Once again, you are putting words in other peoples' mouth to deflect from the fact that your arguments have been torn down by people who actually understand the breed. Constantly moving the goal posts whenever you are proven to be incorrect is starting to get really old.

As for prey drive, it's not a behavioural issue so I don't know why you're implying that it is.

[Greyt]

yes this is true, however they are raised differently and are trained to chase - which some other sighthounds do for fun ie lurecoursing etc. But due to the fact they are raised differently I believe they should be routinely temp tested, as should any dog that is put through a rescue or shelter regardless of breed, and I do believe resource guarding is very important.

I have Whippets that will chase a bunny but wouldn't dream of chasing the cat and have stood there while guinea pigs ran around their feet, after being told to leave them, whilst I tried to catch them. Mine will also call off chasing a rabbit. Most Greys in training do not get taught the basics of average living so there needs to be some sort of steps they need to get through before they become pets. I also believe not every dog, grey or other, should be rehomed as I do not believe that everything can be trained out of them.

Although Maddy has tried to put words in my mouth around whether I think every greyhound can be re-homed (yes I feel affronted that Maddy chooses a public forum to air her wrongly drawn conclusion).

My actual view is that any dog of any breed that does not pass a temp assessment should not be re-homed.

Because Greyhounds have often led such deplorable lives before they are re-homed and have to start from the start as it were, after training, I feel they should be given extra opportunities to pass their temp assessments - time and good handling techniques can transform the overwhelming majority. I feel it would be great if the industry paid for long term foster care for example.

BTW, great job on the recall training of your Whippets. They are remarkable results.

[Greyt]

Edited because I can't' get this quoting thing to work.

Maddy said in an a post above, "If you can't respect the breed for what it is, you shouldn't be involved in rehoming them"

It implies that I don't respect the breed.

I feel it is yet another character assassination.

Edited February 23, 2015 by Greyt

[dogbesotted]

sheesh! this is like an out of control people fight!!!!

surely we are for the dogs.. for their right to be assessed and be rehomed to a suitable home. Greys just like all dogs are INDIVIDUALS. I watched in horror as pitbull type dogs were rounded up and killed because of an enormous amount of incorrect information ( even from DOL members).... for Dogs sake dont get on that round a bout. The gret rehoming people in many states know what they are doing

Helen

[Maddy]

If you can't respect the breed for what it is, you shouldn't be involved in rehoming them.

Now, I don't respect the breed? Will it ever end?

Where have I implied that?

Er, it is right there above. If I can't respect the breed, implies I don't respect the breed.

Oh, that's right, I haven't.

Nice work there, cutting and pasting quotes to make it look like I said something I didn't.

This is what I was replying to-

If you believe that greyhounds should be kept in tiny cages or runs their whole life while in training, please just say it.

If you believe that keeping greyhounds in tiny cages or runs their whole life while in training does not produce a greater preponderance of behavioural issues vs the way we normally raise pets please just say it.

And I'm sure you were aware of that. But whatever, I'm not feeding the crazy any further.

[Greyt]

As for prey drive, it's not a behavioural issue so I don't know why you're implying that it is.

Prey drive is inerrant in the species. The Greyhound Racing Industry routinely "dispose of" dogs with low levels of prey drive. Numerically, this leaves a more than natural number of dogs that do survive the industry with a a higher than average level of prey drive.

Lots of greyhound owners report that their dogs that used to chase small animals, no longer do. This indicates to me that it is just something inerrant in the breed that needs to be managed.

[Greyt]

If you can't respect the breed for what it is, you shouldn't be involved in rehoming them.

Now, I don't respect the breed? Will it ever end?

Where have I implied that?

Er, it is right there above. If I can't respect the breed, implies I don't respect the breed.

Oh, that's right, I haven't.

Nice work there, cutting and pasting quotes to make it look like I said something I didn't.

This is what I was replying to-

If you believe that greyhounds should be kept in tiny cages or runs their whole life while in training, please just say it.

If you believe that keeping greyhounds in tiny cages or runs their whole life while in training does not produce a greater preponderance of behavioural issues vs the way we normally raise pets please just say it.

And I'm sure you were aware of that. But whatever, I'm not feeding the crazy any further.

Oh, I am sorry. The first part of your post was ambiguous.

Now I am "crazy". Sorry, is that bullying behaviour? Is that even allowed on DOL?

Why all the personal attacks?

Did you go to character assassination school or have you completed a course on maligning reputations?

It is telling that for all of the suggestions of how to improve the welfare of animals I have made in this thread, you haven't picked up on a single one.

And yet you have made so many wrong assumptions and aired them on a public forum in an effort to belittle me.

And in this whole thread, how many characterisations have you made about people who are actually cruel to animals - you know, those people in the Greyhound Racing Industry featuring so prominently in the media lately?

To me, that speaks to your true character.

[Greyt]

sheesh! this is like an out of control people fight!!!!

surely we are for the dogs.. for their right to be assessed and be rehomed to a suitable home. Greys just like all dogs are INDIVIDUALS. I watched in horror as pitbull type dogs were rounded up and killed because of an enormous amount of incorrect information ( even from DOL members).... for Dogs sake dont get on that round a bout. The gret rehoming people in many states know what they are doing

Helen

Hi Helen,

Your aspirations are well founded and laudable.

In addition to what you want, I am also for ending the cruelty to Greyhounds that goes on in the industry and of ending the mass disposal of the dogs that don't make it. I feel now is a unique time in history to bring about change that betters the lives of Greyhounds before and after they are re-homed.

I feel that is a reasonable expectation to express those aspirations on a forum dedicated to dogs. I also feel that the general public caught only a glimpse of what really goes on behind the scenes last Monday and it is time now to air ALL of the dirty laundry and not just some of it in the interests of animal welfare.

I don't believe that my views are extreme or not in line with how the general public would feel about the treatment of Greyhounds.

It is disturbing to me that very few people in this thread, even though many are involved in the industry and some draw their income from the industry are not bringing these deplorable practices into the light so that the welfare of the breed can be improved going forward.

Surely they would know more about these practices than the rest of us?

[HazyWal]

If you can't respect the breed for what it is, you shouldn't be involved in rehoming them.

Now, I don't respect the breed? Will it ever end?

Where have I implied that?

Er, it is right there above. If I can't respect the breed, implies I don't respect the breed.

Oh, that's right, I haven't.

Nice work there, cutting and pasting quotes to make it look like I said something I didn't.

This is what I was replying to-

If you believe that greyhounds should be kept in tiny cages or runs their whole life while in training, please just say it.

If you believe that keeping greyhounds in tiny cages or runs their whole life while in training does not produce a greater preponderance of behavioural issues vs the way we normally raise pets please just say it.

And I'm sure you were aware of that. But whatever, I'm not feeding the crazy any further.

Oh, I am sorry. The first part of your post was ambiguous.

Now I am "crazy". Sorry, is that bullying behaviour? Is that even allowed on DOL?

Why all the personal attacks?

Did you go to character assassination school or have you completed a course on maligning reputations?

It is telling that for all of the suggestions of how to improve the welfare of animals I have made in this thread, you haven't picked up on a single one.

And yet you have made so many wrong assumptions and aired them on a public forum in an effort to belittle me.

And in this whole thread, how many characterisations have you made about people who are actually cruel to animals - you know, those people in the Greyhound Racing Industry featuring so prominently in the media lately?

To me, that speaks to your true character.

Pot....kettle.

[Greyt]

I haven't been on line much in the last few days but as soon as I am my newsfeed on FB is flooded with panicked greyhound rescues screaming for foster carers and money. These are the same rescues that have been campaigning for the end of greyhound racing and now dogs are starting to come in they are crapping themselves at the enormity of what they have been demanding. They didn't think that far ahead, they didn't think about where dogs will go if the industry was shut down completely they still have NFI. Gone Are The Dogs posted this morning "what happens to the dogs now?" Should've thought about that earlier hey?

No, you didn't say other things.

What you did say is above and it's an abominable comment, I was ashamed to even read it.

To quote you, verbatim, "They didn't think that far ahead, they didn't think about where dogs will go if the industry was shut down completely they still have NFI. Gone Are The Dogs posted this morning "what happens to the dogs now?" Should've thought about that earlier hey?"

The campaigners have "NFI"? You mean the people appalled by live baiting, doping, unfathomable "wastage", cheating, money laundering, various other criminal activity not to mention that board members are being caught out, ex-stewards have been involved in live-baiting and self regulation is a joke.

You mean those people have "NFI"?

Tell me, what do you think of the public's outrage about this issue?

I stand by my comment. I feel your comments ware entirely inappropriate to make on a dog forum, especially in a thread discussing the cruelty perpetrated against animals... and I never called you names.

[mita]

[

But see greyhounds aren't the "same as any dog" they are the fastest dog on the planet and nothing on this earth will out run a determined greyhound, except in Stan's case being a fence and a fractured skull. Add to that most of them have terrible recall.

Poor Stan! Did he have a puzzled look, 'Why did that fence attack me?'

Boofy the rescued grey next door was good coming to answer his name from sleeping on the couch or watching TV.

We'd call his name at the fenceline... & there'd be a long pause...then Boofy would appear, plodding like a mastiff instead of a greyhound. He loved a pat & a talk. Then he'd plod off back to his couch. He was still a baby, only 3 years old & huge. He was rescued from being shot because he was hopeless at running. He wasn't flash at walking, either. :) Everyone adored him!

[HazyWal]

I haven't been on line much in the last few days but as soon as I am my newsfeed on FB is flooded with panicked greyhound rescues screaming for foster carers and money. These are the same rescues that have been campaigning for the end of greyhound racing and now dogs are starting to come in they are crapping themselves at the enormity of what they have been demanding. They didn't think that far ahead, they didn't think about where dogs will go if the industry was shut down completely they still have NFI. Gone Are The Dogs posted this morning "what happens to the dogs now?" Should've thought about that earlier hey?

No, you didn't say other things.

What you did say is above and it's an abominable comment, I was ashamed to even read it.

To quote you, verbatim, "They didn't think that far ahead, they didn't think about where dogs will go if the industry was shut down completely they still have NFI. Gone Are The Dogs posted this morning "what happens to the dogs now?" Should've thought about that earlier hey?"

The campaigners have "NFI"? You mean the people appalled by live baiting, doping, unfathomable "wastage", cheating, money laundering, various other criminal activity not to mention that board members are being caught out, ex-stewards have been involved in live-baiting and self regulation is a joke.

You mean those people have "NFI"?

Tell me, what do you think of the public's outrage about this issue?

I stand by my comment. I feel your comments ware entirely inappropriate to make on a dog forum, especially in a thread discussing the cruelty perpetrated against animals... and I never called you names.

And I stand by mine soooooo round and round we go. Unless the mods think my comment above was inappropriate, to which they would then delete it because they can, how you feel about it means jack to me really.