Four Corners: Greyhound Racing: Live Baiting Revelations

[MonElite]

Don't you just love this excuse from one of the greyhound trainers who was suspended after stewards and RSPCA raided his property last week

Trainer Bruce Carr says rabbits were for his son to eat, not live bait for greyhounds

ONE of the 10 greyhound racing participants stood down over the live-baiting scandal on Thursday night sensationally claimed rabbits were only found on his property — because his son liked to eat them.

Bruce Carr, a trainer who also breaks in dogs, was suspended after stewards and the RSPCA raided his Londonderry property last week.

There were four live rabbits discovered on Carr's property last Friday, but the 70-year-old told The Daily Telegraph they were not used illegally as live bait to educate dogs, but as a delicacy for his son.

"That is the truth, the four white rabbits belong to my son, he's had rabbits for about 10 years and he likes to eat them,'' Carr said. "The only problem is I have greyhounds (on the same property).''

I happen to know this man, and I had absolutely nothing to do with greyhound all my life, except seeing them at shows or pet expos.

Bruce has countless animals on his property, birds, poultry, sheep dogs and yes rabbits. I think maybe pigs too, not sure.

and greyhounds.

Now that I read about him- I have to say that I didn't even have an idea that he is a greyhound trainer. Ive been to that property countless number of times.

I regularly buy chicken carcasses and chicken mince from him for my dogs.

And I bought rabbits from him and his son, eating rabbits! I had one for Xmas!!

I bought live chickens from them too for my chicken pen to get eggs.

Whilst I cant say that nothing ever goes on there or that it does as I simply wouldn't know, he is a lovely guy, so is his wife and son.

And yes his son does like to eat rabbit meat!!! we spoke about this many times, exchange recipes etc.

[WreckitWhippet]

Nice man or not, he'll be lumped in with those caught and will have his reputation ruined regardless of what he may not have done

[mita]

Thanks for the quote from Premier Baird, labradore. Pretty straight answer about shutting down being among options.

It's been said a thousand times, but so sad for the owner/trainers, watching all this, who do more than the right thing.

[The Spotted Devil]

I made a special point tonight of complementing a lady and her young daughter on their lovely green collared Grey (Samantha) - turns out they'd only had her a week and just adored her. Great work GAP Victoria!

[gapvic]

More about the dogs seized in Qld

[Kirislin]

If greyhound racing continues, and I think it will, perhaps now those involved in the industry will quickly report others they know are live baiting to stop overall suspensions ever happening again. Or am I being optimistic.

[Rebanne]

More about the dogs seized in Qld

I have to say I don't agree with this at all. (Dogs being seized) There are some very valid points made in that article

One of the things that has been pointed out, on FB by a foster carer, is how not a single greyhound that was shown being blooded has even looked like trying to aggress on the person pulling them off the "kill". They all were happy to go off with the person, wagging their tail, allowed people to pull the fur out of their mouth. Yet they are being seized as if they are a huge danger to society and must be locked away. Not the right message to be sending to the public.

[mita]

Sydney Morning Herald says 'insiders' tell them that the NSW Enquiry is a good thing & not before time. One un-named source saying it will either make or break the industry.

Pity Qld & Victoria don't go the independent enquiry route, too. Instead of pronouncing 'most don't do bad things', ' and giving millions of dollars to the administration which let horror pass under its nose.

Question still remains how awful & cruel behaviours will be policed ... given that it all takes place on private property. And the creepy ones will learn to shut up about telling others who might report.

Edited February 21, 2015 by mita

[mita]

They all were happy to go off with the person, wagging their tail, allowed people to pull the fur out of their mouth. Yet they are being seized as if they are a huge danger to society and must be locked away. Not the right message to be sending to the public.

I'd say it's only half the message. Sure they're not being trained to attack grown humans. But those greys are being trained to see small squealing creatures as prey to be killed. Out in everyday society, there's tiny children and small companion pets.

The largest human group attacked by dogs (& other than greys) are small children. One of the reasons being they behave like the small creatures which can attract the prey drive.

I am not saying that all greys will attack small children & small dogs. I saw at first hand the well-raised greys coming thro' GAP who passed the tests of being safe with children & small dogs , with flying colours.

Best guess they hadn't been trained to kill small, squealing creatures.

To be honest, I don't know the answer what to do with the greys seized. Maybe it's ruling that they'll never be released as pets in open society. People more expert in dog behaviour could advise.

Edited February 21, 2015 by mita

[anniek]

Over years in greyhound rescue, having the dogs handed over to me by the trainers, my opinion is that unless trainers have broken in the dogs themselves, then there is a high likely hood that live bait has been used at break in.

Trainers often saying "he will make a nice pet he hasn't had a kill as I broke him in myself"

Furterh conversation leading to comments such as 'well yes they all do'.

So on the assumption that most breakins use live rabbits etc, then from there would also have to assume that the majority of greyhounds out there as pets have experienced "a kill"

ANd of course they are lovely pets.

I think the reason for suspending the current lot of baited dogs of because of what is preceived as an unfair advantage in them racing.

[dogbesotted]

WE BET:THEY DIE.. this underlies the greyhound racing and horse racing industries.. and as other have stated as long as there is a dollar to be made then shortcuts will be taken, animals will be abused as they are seen by some ( certainly not all) as merely a cog in the process.

Greyhound breeders and racers are many in my area .. in fact my local area featured in the early part of the program. I have this terrible fear that i will spot some of the participants in the street and give in to my urge to thump them into tomorrow

h

[Loving my Oldies]

I have this terrible fear that i will spot some of the participants in the street and give in to my urge to thump them into tomorrow

Get a good lawyer who can argue that you have a physical version of Tourette Syndrome and were unable to stop your arms and legs and teeth flailing around the thumpee.

[Rebanne]

They all were happy to go off with the person, wagging their tail, allowed people to pull the fur out of their mouth. Yet they are being seized as if they are a huge danger to society and must be locked away. Not the right message to be sending to the public.

I'd say it's only half the message. Sure they're not being trained to attack grown humans. But those greys are being trained to see small squealing creatures as prey to be killed. Out in everyday society, there's tiny children and small companion pets.

The largest human group attacked by dogs (& other than greys) are small children. One of the reasons being they behave like the small creatures which can attract the prey drive.

I am not saying that all greys will attack small children & small dogs. I saw at first hand the well-raised greys coming thro' GAP who passed the tests of being safe with children & small dogs , with flying colours.

Best guess they hadn't been trained to kill small, squealing creatures.

To be honest, I don't know the answer what to do with the greys seized. Maybe it's ruling that they'll never be released as pets in open society. People more expert in dog behaviour could advise.

I actually think a lot of greyhounds that have gone through GAP and other rescues have been trained with rabbits even if they were already dead, they are encouraged to bite onto the arm and you can use squeakers that sound very much like an animal dying. I fostered dogs straight from the trainer, I had 4 cats. I would bet money that they had all at least had a "bite on" as it was legal then. It is a testimony to their wonderful temperament that they all passed GAP. There would be no way of knowing which dog was blooded and which wasn't. Super keen doesn't mean they have killed, just that they are super keen. I know of quite a few GAP dogs that have gone out to rural properties that kill rabbits. They don't then try to kill small dogs or children when around them. In fact one was a "school" dog. One that went into schools to teach small children how to interact with dogs.

[Rebanne]

To be honest, I don't know the answer what to do with the greys seized. Maybe it's ruling that they'll never be released as pets in open society. People more expert in dog behaviour could advise.

How ridiculous! Might as well put them down now if their only life is to be kept behind bars for the rest of their lives.

My 8 month old showbred greyhound is showing great promise as a bird dog! Any bird flies low over my backyard is fair game! No doubt she would be pretty keen on a rabbit if she saw one. Maybe I should look her up in a cage for the next 12 years in case she confuses a child dancing around as a bird. The brother of my 3 1/2 yo male is very keen, must tell his owner to lock him up when her granddaughter comes to visit.

[Steph M]

That is ludicrous. Our whippet cross has definitely killed low flying birds before too, she's a turd for it. She also once got a rabbit while we were camping, I caught her, scared her and she dropped it but if I hasn't he would have been dinner.

She also lives peacefully with chooks and cats, adores mum's SWF's and loves all kids.

The mind just boggles. Better lock her up now.

Of course they deserve homes, they need adequate testing and finding the perfect home for each one.

[dogbesotted]

i have just watched the entire segment! ( had only heard on radio before) dear God.. speechless with fury

h

[Lhok]

Killing birds and small animals isn't just confined to greys either so should we lock up all our dogs? My Akitas have taken birds on the wing in our backyard then have played chasing bubbles with a small squealing child.

I don't know what the answer is to fix the problem, but I do know that locking up dogs isn't the answer.

--Lhok

[Stressmagnet]

Ernie has taken 2 feral rabbits in our back yard and badly damaged a bush Turkey. He's a Labrador retriever- not a dog I would suspect of having a hunting drive. If it's small and it squeaks, I think it's instinct.

On the other hand, that bush Turkey was a monster.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Killing birds and small animals isn't just confined to greys either so should we lock up all our dogs? My Akitas have taken birds on the wing in our backyard then have played chasing bubbles with a small squealing child.

I don't know what the answer is to fix the problem, but I do know that locking up dogs isn't the answer.

--Lhok

Not really the same scenario as the live baiting situation, my dogs have very sadly killed the odd bird and blue tongue - I've even rushed one to the vet but that's very different.

This is en masse cruel treatment on a deliberate basis. I have a Jack Russell and she would catch and kill a rat if she could find one. Very different from me, heading down to a seller of rats and bringing them back here and running around my garden with one on a string in front of my dog. I wouldn't dream of doing anything like that, ever.

At least Jack Russells do make a quick job of their prey. Greyhounds don't work in the same way and the animals suffered immensely.

The callousness of the people involved, even after they were caught and interviewed, remains very shocking to me - it shouldn't really shock me when I know it's an industry with a phenomenal amount of poor treatment of the very animals they proclaim to "love".

Edited February 21, 2015 by Her Majesty Dogmad

[labadore]

They all were happy to go off with the person, wagging their tail, allowed people to pull the fur out of their mouth. Yet they are being seized as if they are a huge danger to society and must be locked away. Not the right message to be sending to the public.

I'd say it's only half the message. Sure they're not being trained to attack grown humans. But those greys are being trained to see small squealing creatures as prey to be killed. Out in everyday society, there's tiny children and small companion pets.

The largest human group attacked by dogs (& other than greys) are small children. One of the reasons being they behave like the small creatures which can attract the prey drive.

I am not saying that all greys will attack small children & small dogs. I saw at first hand the well-raised greys coming thro' GAP who passed the tests of being safe with children & small dogs , with flying colours.

Best guess they hadn't been trained to kill small, squealing creatures.

To be honest, I don't know the answer what to do with the greys seized. Maybe it's ruling that they'll never be released as pets in open society. People more expert in dog behaviour could advise.

I believe the poor greyhounds caught up in the fallout should be given every chance to find a new home through GAP or other such greyhound rescues. No doubt some of the already successfully rehomed greyhounds were trained using these "blooding" methods and this should not rule them out from being given a chance to be assessed for rehoming.

As other posters have mentioned, greyhounds should not be singled out as being a threat to small animals because they may/may not have been exposed to the cruel blooding methods employed by these unscrupulous, cruel trainers. Lots of dogs are capable of killing small animals, including my own Labradors, one (my only girl) of which killed a rabbit that got into our yard and I found bits of rabbit scattered around the yard when I got home from work. I have had others kill birds, rats, and all these Labs, except my current two have lived very peacefully with kittens and cats. There is no way I would have a cat with my current youngster, he hates cats with a passion and goes ballistic if any come onto my property and it takes me all my strength to hold him if he sees a cat on our walks, his prey drive is very strong. I wouldn't trust my other boy with a cat either as he reacts in a similar fashion but as I adopted him approx 10 months ago, I don't know his background with small animals, so would never risk it.