Maddy Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Having watched the 4 Corners episode, 3 questions came to mind: 1. If the investigation is to be focussed the greyhound industry, are the low lifes that actually trap and supply the bait animals going to get off scot free? 2. I imagine the piglets were wild caught? Are their litter mates being used to blood pig hunting pups? 3. How are the revelations going to affect the willingness of people to adopt retired greyhounds - given the hysteria about the risk to children every time a dog mauls a cat or another dog? In answer to point 3 - I have been receiving, on average, between 4 and 10 applications to adopt per day. Today? NONE. This is the affect the story has had on the public's willingness to adopt a greyhound. To be honest, I'm not surprised. I mentioned this to the OH and his reply was "It's not the dogs' fault" and he's absolutely right but then, would the average person want a dog who'd ripped other animals to pieces? It's hard enough educating people about prey drive (without them imagining greyhounds as just fast, skinny wolves) and then footage like that comes out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Statement from RSPCA Victoria, seems to be aimed at cleaning up the sport, not banning it. They say it's marketed as a family outing event, so it's doubly appalling that ugly, cruel practices can go on underneath. Also that the industry is totally self-regulating, so there's a huge need for independent scrutiny. They propose that anyone found guilty of cruelty should be banned from animal ownership for life ... as well as having their license revoked. http://www.rspcavic.org/issues-take-action/animals-in-sport-and-entertainment/greyhound-racing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I'd like to know if animal lib, animals Australia and the RSPCA have their way and the industry is shut down, even for a short period of time (some are saying suspend racing for a month) what will happen to the thousand upon thousand of dogs. Those that are in it for the money aren't going to pay to feed , house and provide vet care. This has been my point all day yet only one person actually had the guts to say "I don't know" It's all well and good to throw your hands in the air screaming BAN IT NOW yet those hands would be straight under their arses if someone turned up on their doorstep tomorrow with a couple of homeless greys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lillynix Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I'd like to know if animal lib, animals Australia and the RSPCA have their way and the industry is shut down, even for a short period of time (some are saying suspend racing for a month) what will happen to the thousand upon thousand of dogs. Those that are in it for the money aren't going to pay to feed , house and provide vet care. This has been my point all day yet only one person actually had the guts to say "I don't know" It's all well and good to throw your hands in the air screaming BAN IT NOW yet those hands would be straight under their arses if someone turned up on their doorstep tomorrow with a couple of homeless greys. Exactly. I have wondered how that side of things was handled (if at all) in the US when racing was banned in the various states. Was there an influx into rescues/pounds and therefore dogs not getting the attention they need before being responsibly rehomed? Were dogs killed by the hundreds, either humanely or otherwise? Was there an increase in neglect cases? I can only imagine that it was the latter options that happened, though obviously I have no idea. If after banning greyhound racing, how long did it take for the issue of "excess" greyhounds to rectify, or is it still an ongoing issue. As much as I wish that all animals weren't used for human entertainment for gambling purposes, I completely understand that a ban isn't the best option straight out. There would be too much of a fall out for the dogs, there just needs to be some serious overhauling of the industry and some independent regulatory bodies governing over it. Perhaps one day the "sport" could be phased out somehow, but getting up and just going 'right, it's banned', is never going to be a viable option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boronia Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 For those, like me, who didn't watch Four Corners here is an article from Business Insider article (I have deleted the photo) http://www.businessi...6ba2d-278988661 Greyhound racing industry in damage control after horrifying Four Corners exposé on live baiting The Australian greyhound racing industry is in crisis and scrambling to control illegal practices that have gone undetected for years after the ABC TV's Four Corners showed some of the country's top trainers using live animals, including rabbits, possums and baby piglets to train dogs. The distressing secret footage shows dogs chasing, mauling, killing and tearing apart live animals apart as part of their training. In one instance, a possum remained alive, despite being torn nearly in half, and was still attached to the mechanical lure only by its spinal cord. In a damning indictment on the sport, the program, titled "Making A Killing", broadcast footage of dogs being trained using banned live baiting in three states, Victoria, Queensland and New South Wales. The incidents were captured in secret surveillance footage by animal rights group Animals Australia. Live baiting is banned and illegal across Australia, with the penalties for animal cruelty ranging between two and five years' jail in the various states and fines up to $30,000. It's sometimes referred to as "blooding" the dog. Some trainers believe the dogs will perform better as a result when chasing mechanical baits during a race. Organisations such as the RSPCA continue to campaign against live baiting and last week conducted raids on five properties in the three states after the Four Corners program passed on details of its investigations. Lyn White from Animals Australia claimed up to 70 people were implicated in the investigation, including top trainers, a greyhound racing club president and a former steward. One of the men caught tying a live pig to the lure has twice won greyhound trainer of the year. The industry responded to the revelations last week by suspending 22 people for using live animal baiting – six in NSW, including a licensed trainer, 10 in Victoria and seven trainers in Queensland. A number of greyhounds have also been scratched from competition and a trial track in Box Hill, NSW, closed, and the Tooradin trial track's registration suspended. The also face up to 10-year bans from the sport as well as potential criminal charges. GRV CEO Adam Wallish forewarned of the damage to the industry in an internal email obtained by the ABC. He warned against attacking the messenger, saying "Be angry at those within the sport that are doing the wrong thing and undermining the values for which we stand. "We should all be shocked and outraged by the allegations in the story and prepared to fight the small minority that continue to partake in such practices jeopardising the future of the sport." The Four Corners exposé has brought a swift response from state governments, with Victorian minister for racing, Martin Pakula, announcing immediately after the program that he told the racing industry to cancel its awards night next week. Additionally I have instructed GRV to cancel next Friday's Greyhound Industry Award night and Chairman Peter Caillard has agreed #4corners — Martin Pakula (@MartinPakulaMP) February 16, 2015 Pakula and agriculture minister Jaala Pulford also announced an investigation into animal cruelty in the greyhound racing industry by Victoria's chief veterinary officer, as well as an independent investigation by Racing Integrity commissioner Sal Perna. The Government will also give $3 million to Greyhound Racing Victoria to improve its animal welfare and integrity measures, including surveillance technology to assist with detection and prosecution; and a dedicated steward to inspect and monitor the 15 private trial tracks registered with GRV. "Live-baiting is barbaric, abhorrent and illegal – it has absolutely no place in Victoria's racing industry and it must be stopped," Pakula said. Four Corners detailed how there had been just two prosecutions for live baiting in the last 10 years. Greyhounds Australasia CEO Scott Parker claimed it was difficult to detect because live baiting occurred in remote locations. Racing Queensland, which declined to appear on the progam, announced a $1 million taskforce to combat live baiting and cruelty claims on Sunday. In NSW, racing minister Troy Grant said he was "shocked and appalled by the absolutely abhorrent and distressing footage shown in the Four Corners report". The NSW Government is currently overseeing a scheduled five-year statutory review of the Greyhound Racing Act 2009. The Minister's response was to extend the date for submissions by two weeks to March 2, 2015. Greyhound Racing NSW (GRNSW) announced the establishment of a taskforce headed by former High Court justice Michael McHugh to "investigate the extent of live baiting within the NSW greyhound racing industry". But it's not the first time the $3 billion industry has been plagued by serious allegations. In October 2013, the ABC's 7.30 aired claims by a former NSW industry vet of doping and cruelty. GRNSW denied the claims at the time, but former NSW auditor general David Landa, who was asked in 2011 to examine claims of misconduct, quit in 2012, saying he was obstructed from investigating by the industry body, who "simply did not want oversight". Landa added that he wrote to the NSW Racing Minister George Souris with advice but did not get a response. 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westiemum Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Just the tip of the iceberg. The practice has been common knowledge for years and condoned by the money makers. I wish they had spoken more of what happens when greyhounds don't make the grade as racers, but that's another story. When it opened with the woman with 70 greyhounds as "pets", I knew we were going to be told a bunch of lies by the trainers/owners. The greyhound industry is the biggest puppy farm in the country. Sick, cruel people. I hope they do enforce the two years in jail, but won't hold my breath. The ABC did do a story last year on greyhound wastage, people were outraged at the death of thousands of greyhounds for about 5 minutes and then it was business as usual Yes, but this time there are names attached to those who are doing this and indisputable evidence available. It is up to every one of us to make sure it isn't just business as usual - now we all know the truth. Well said Do your research there are plenty of names of trainers all over this country that take greys in to be euthed at greyhound vets every single day. Not one or two half a dozen at a time, that's how got my Maddie. So what's your plan of attack? I'm not being smart it's a genuine question to both of you. Hazy you're right. About 20,000 greyhound puppies are born each year in Australia. A fraction of those are racing, and less than 500 make it into greyhound rescue and overall about 2000 end their lives in loving homes. No prizes for guessing what happens to the rest. Your question is a good one I need to think about... adopting a grey and promoting their adoption after Mac falls off his twig would be a start... Thank you for the reply. Yes I'm well aware of the statistics, I have been involved in greyhound rescue for a while now. In actual fact GAPVIC rehomed 538 greys last year alone so add to that the many other groups and there were far more than 500 rehomed. The rehoming stats have been steadily increasing each year as more people become aware of what wonderful pets they do make. Hazy they do make wonderful pets as we talked about in another thread. And yes one day when I can do one of these beautiful dogs justice I'll have one here. Thanks for the rehoming stats - thats magnificent - I must have old information. I was also highlighting the stats gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I'd like to know if animal lib, animals Australia and the RSPCA have their way and the industry is shut down, even for a short period of time (some are saying suspend racing for a month) what will happen to the thousand upon thousand of dogs. Those that are in it for the money aren't going to pay to feed , house and provide vet care. This has been my point all day yet only one person actually had the guts to say "I don't know" It's all well and good to throw your hands in the air screaming BAN IT NOW yet those hands would be straight under their arses if someone turned up on their doorstep tomorrow with a couple of homeless greys. Exactly. I have wondered how that side of things was handled (if at all) in the US when racing was banned in the various states. Was there an influx into rescues/pounds and therefore dogs not getting the attention they need before being responsibly rehomed? Were dogs killed by the hundreds, either humanely or otherwise? Was there an increase in neglect cases? I can only imagine that it was the latter options that happened, though obviously I have no idea. If after banning greyhound racing, how long did it take for the issue of "excess" greyhounds to rectify, or is it still an ongoing issue. As much as I wish that all animals weren't used for human entertainment for gambling purposes, I completely understand that a ban isn't the best option straight out. There would be too much of a fall out for the dogs, there just needs to be some serious overhauling of the industry and some independent regulatory bodies governing over it. Perhaps one day the "sport" could be phased out somehow, but getting up and just going 'right, it's banned', is never going to be a viable option. I'd assume the majority were probably transferred to states that still allow it and any remaining dogs were simply destroyed. No real reason to keep a heap of dogs that are now a financial drain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I'd like to know if animal lib, animals Australia and the RSPCA have their way and the industry is shut down, even for a short period of time (some are saying suspend racing for a month) what will happen to the thousand upon thousand of dogs. Those that are in it for the money aren't going to pay to feed , house and provide vet care. This has been my point all day yet only one person actually had the guts to say "I don't know" It's all well and good to throw your hands in the air screaming BAN IT NOW yet those hands would be straight under their arses if someone turned up on their doorstep tomorrow with a couple of homeless greys. Exactly. I have wondered how that side of things was handled (if at all) in the US when racing was banned in the various states. Was there an influx into rescues/pounds and therefore dogs not getting the attention they need before being responsibly rehomed? Were dogs killed by the hundreds, either humanely or otherwise? Was there an increase in neglect cases? I can only imagine that it was the latter options that happened, though obviously I have no idea. If after banning greyhound racing, how long did it take for the issue of "excess" greyhounds to rectify, or is it still an ongoing issue. As much as I wish that all animals weren't used for human entertainment for gambling purposes, I completely understand that a ban isn't the best option straight out. There would be too much of a fall out for the dogs, there just needs to be some serious overhauling of the industry and some independent regulatory bodies governing over it. Perhaps one day the "sport" could be phased out somehow, but getting up and just going 'right, it's banned', is never going to be a viable option. I'd assume the majority were probably transferred to states that still allow it and any remaining dogs were simply destroyed. No real reason to keep a heap of dogs that are now a financial drain. Greyhound rescue is huge in the States, much bigger then here. Though quite a few seem to have the same save them at all costs mentality that exists in some groups here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Just the tip of the iceberg. The practice has been common knowledge for years and condoned by the money makers. I wish they had spoken more of what happens when greyhounds don't make the grade as racers, but that's another story. When it opened with the woman with 70 greyhounds as "pets", I knew we were going to be told a bunch of lies by the trainers/owners. The greyhound industry is the biggest puppy farm in the country. Sick, cruel people. I hope they do enforce the two years in jail, but won't hold my breath. The ABC did do a story last year on greyhound wastage, people were outraged at the death of thousands of greyhounds for about 5 minutes and then it was business as usual Yes, but this time there are names attached to those who are doing this and indisputable evidence available. It is up to every one of us to make sure it isn't just business as usual - now we all know the truth. Well said Do your research there are plenty of names of trainers all over this country that take greys in to be euthed at greyhound vets every single day. Not one or two half a dozen at a time, that's how got my Maddie. So what's your plan of attack? I'm not being smart it's a genuine question to both of you. Hazy you're right. About 20,000 greyhound puppies are born each year in Australia. A fraction of those are racing, and less than 500 make it into greyhound rescue and overall about 2000 end their lives in loving homes. No prizes for guessing what happens to the rest. Your question is a good one I need to think about... adopting a grey and promoting their adoption after Mac falls off his twig would be a start... Thank you for the reply. Yes I'm well aware of the statistics, I have been involved in greyhound rescue for a while now. In actual fact GAPVIC rehomed 538 greys last year alone so add to that the many other groups and there were far more than 500 rehomed. The rehoming stats have been steadily increasing each year as more people become aware of what wonderful pets they do make. Hazy they do make wonderful pets as we talked about in another thread. And yes one day when I can do one of these beautiful dogs justice I'll have one here. Thanks for the rehoming stats - thats magnificent - I must have old information. I was also highlighting the stats gap. All good re the stats, It's nice to have a civil conversation with someone who has taken the time to even look at any stats as far as greyhound rescue goes. I'm still battling on on a major Sydney radio station's FB page, so far scum has been the nicest thing said to me all day....care factor of zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I'd like to know if animal lib, animals Australia and the RSPCA have their way and the industry is shut down, even for a short period of time (some are saying suspend racing for a month) what will happen to the thousand upon thousand of dogs. Those that are in it for the money aren't going to pay to feed , house and provide vet care. This has been my point all day yet only one person actually had the guts to say "I don't know" It's all well and good to throw your hands in the air screaming BAN IT NOW yet those hands would be straight under their arses if someone turned up on their doorstep tomorrow with a couple of homeless greys. Exactly. I have wondered how that side of things was handled (if at all) in the US when racing was banned in the various states. Was there an influx into rescues/pounds and therefore dogs not getting the attention they need before being responsibly rehomed? Were dogs killed by the hundreds, either humanely or otherwise? Was there an increase in neglect cases? I can only imagine that it was the latter options that happened, though obviously I have no idea. If after banning greyhound racing, how long did it take for the issue of "excess" greyhounds to rectify, or is it still an ongoing issue. As much as I wish that all animals weren't used for human entertainment for gambling purposes, I completely understand that a ban isn't the best option straight out. There would be too much of a fall out for the dogs, there just needs to be some serious overhauling of the industry and some independent regulatory bodies governing over it. Perhaps one day the "sport" could be phased out somehow, but getting up and just going 'right, it's banned', is never going to be a viable option. I'd assume the majority were probably transferred to states that still allow it and any remaining dogs were simply destroyed. No real reason to keep a heap of dogs that are now a financial drain. Greyhound rescue is huge in the States, much bigger then here. Though quite a few seem to have the same save them at all costs mentality that exists in some groups here. It's still up to the owners/trainers what happens to the dogs though and if they're still worth money, they won't go to rescue. I had one greyhound trainer decide not to surrender a dog to me because someone offered him a few hundred for her (and I couldn't immediately afford to counter that offer). Said dog is now pumping out the litters and will probably never get a chance at pet life but.. a few hundred dollars so totally worth it for her previous owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastgals Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 As Rebanne says, greyhound rescue is huge in the US, with many of the remaining track-linked adoption groups achieving 100% adoption rates. Greys that would not be considered suitable or safe as suburban pets here, are adopted out in the US. Things are quite different in the States, where racing dogs actually live kennelled at a track, rather than at private training farms or properties. I can't find the links now, but I remember early in my membership of a large US greyhound forum, reading about massive, multi-state rescue efforts to collect and adopt out all resident greyhounds when racing was banned in certain states and/or tracks closed down. In Australia, despite the wonderful work of GAP and other groups, we simply don't have the population base or rescue group coverage to rally this level of support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Why are we even talking about the US? We need to concentrate on the shitfight that's happening here and WTF we will do with 1000's of greyhounds discarded if the extremists get their wish because god knows not one of them will put their hand up....they'll just move on to the next cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandiandwe Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 In the US, greyhound adoption is huge. They also have a much bigger population and also shift dogs to Canada. That said, many dogs were also sold to coyote hunters.... I couldn't watch the programme and have spent most of the day caught between tears and vomiting. It's definitely possible to train dogs without this, and the damage being done to the breed is devastating. It's also sad that I went out very early walking this morning while it was still dark and will be checking to see if I am still welcome to take one along to our scheduled pet therapy visit this week. All the work done, and I'm feeling very ambivalent now about racing as a whole. So much needs to change. Breeding needs to be controlled, higher levels of supervision by independent bodies, serious penalties, and very serious work done on assessing dogs as pets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fastgals Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Why are we even talking about the US? We need to concentrate on the shitfight that's happening here and WTF we will do with 1000's of greyhounds discarded if the extremists get their wish because god knows not one of them will put their hand up....they'll just move on to the next cause. Because responses to this type of scenario in the US might inform strategies here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*kirty* Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Would love to organise a big Greyhound walk, somewhere public to remind people how awesome they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Would love to organise a big Greyhound walk, somewhere public to remind people how awesome they are. Pretty sure there are walks scheduled for this coming weekend in Melbourne, whether they go ahead or not is a different matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) Why are we even talking about the US? We need to concentrate on the shitfight that's happening here and WTF we will do with 1000's of greyhounds discarded if the extremists get their wish because god knows not one of them will put their hand up....they'll just move on to the next cause. Yes, attention should be on what's happening now. The RSPCA's comments, both Victoria & Qld, are not in a direction of a ban. They clearly point to a problem at the underbelly of the sport ... they are not saying the sport per se must necessarily be cruel. (They may comment more later, tho'.) They offer sensible solutions, clean up the ugly cruel underbelly, no longer rely on self-regulation which has failed, bring criminal charges against those who've done the wrong thing, ban the guilty from ever owning an animal & revoke their licenses. As to Animal Liberation & Animals Australia, I don't know what their agenda is... maybe one or both want a ban. But the RSCPA, which has a more mainstream voice, doesn't appear to. This is the time to also point to what has been done well in the sport & by whom. The only time the general public hear much about racing greyhounds is when a horrible exposure like this happens. It feeds into the belief that greyhounds are only good for tearing small creatures to pieces. I once thought that, until shown otherwise by an owner/trainer who cared for the welfare of his dogs, did not do cruel things, made sure his greys were rehomed ... & still produced champions who were also great at being pets. So two things needed.... clean up the industry & present how it is best done to the public ( I like kirty's walk idea.) Edited February 17, 2015 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 In the US, greyhound adoption is huge. They also have a much bigger population and also shift dogs to Canada. That said, many dogs were also sold to coyote hunters.... I couldn't watch the programme and have spent most of the day caught between tears and vomiting. It's definitely possible to train dogs without this, and the damage being done to the breed is devastating. It's also sad that I went out very early walking this morning while it was still dark and will be checking to see if I am still welcome to take one along to our scheduled pet therapy visit this week. All the work done, and I'm feeling very ambivalent now about racing as a whole. So much needs to change. Breeding needs to be controlled, higher levels of supervision by independent bodies, serious penalties, and very serious work done on assessing dogs as pets. I'm sure many Greyhound owners must be feeling as you are Brandiandwe. :( Too awful for words. But as to the part I've highlighted, surely you must have known that a lot of these horrible practices are rife in the industry? These sorts of exposures to a lesser degree have been aired many times over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandiandwe Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 Yes, of course. But the question is how widespread? And how many people do I know personally, who I have seen as caring and loving their dogs, who have shared their knowledge and time with me, are involved? This week has been a perfect storm in many ways, with questions being raised about many things which I will not air on a public forum. Suffice to say that I am not sleeping and am trying to work out who, among people I have trusted to be working in the best interests of this breed, have and are acting in direct opposition to it, and in ways which are simply depraved and inhumane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gapvic Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 (edited) never mind Edited February 17, 2015 by gapvic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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