Four Corners: Greyhound Racing: Live Baiting Revelations

[westiemum]

Those that think the vast majority aren't doing it are naïve, there's just not a lot getting caught doing it. It's done at home kennels, private trials and break in tracks.

Whippet if thats true then the whole industry must become heavily government regulated or completely shut-down - preferably the latter. Any form of dog racing is now illegal in 39 states in the US - its time for us to go the same way.

[westiemum]

Some of the men interviewed with their vacuous expressions at a few questions, missing teeth and trackie dacks looked like hillbillies - duelling banjos not out of place there. I wasn't surprised at the use of rabbits and possums (even kittens I had heard but turned it off so don't know if that was shown), it was the delight they seemed to take while torturing small animals - joking around like imbeciles.

Yes... as I said in my post, our neighbour who represented best practices was a decent & intelligent man. His day job was as public servant.

Nobody's yet answered my question why best practices, which I witnessed, do not get presented in the public arena. The public is left with the notion that these pathetic excuses for human beings are the only ones.

It's not a case of who's in the majority or minority. It's a case of expectations of what must be regulated as the norm in greyhound racing....i.e. best practices. And examples also presented to the public so they know that decency & intelligence can (& must) exist in greyhound racing. Dispelling the notions that cruelty is required for an owner/trainer & his greys to be successful.

If steps aren't taken to be proactive, then the public can hardly be blamed for joining in the chorus of those who want greyhound racing banned.

Because it's the media. Just look at what the same program did with Indonesian Abattoirs. They didn't mention that they were showing very few and the vast majority are actually at a world class standard.

What they show is disgusting and very wrong, but it won't do any good painting everyone with the same brush.

Agreed Lisa - but Whippet is suggesting that it is widespread and systemic across the greyhound racing and training industry. So it may not be a minority. I guess the investigations announced in Victoria will show if thats correct or not as it was clear this morning that Sal Perna, the Victorian Integrity Commissioner means business and intends to run a wide-ranging and thorough investigation. He hinted that a previous investigation probably missed evidence that went underground - I doubt that will now happen this time. I hope not.

[westiemum]

Even if it is the minority, the fact that the industry doesn't seem to be very proactive or vocal (from an outsider's perspective) in stamping out this despicable behaviour makes them look bad.

And then the question is raised as to whether it is the minority? I mean no one knows what is really going on behind closed doors.

Yippee Girl you've picked up on something that really alarmed me - there was little concern or even awareness by the people on the footage that this activity is completely unacceptable. Which means that this industry is unlikely to be able to successfully self-regulate or change.

[stellnme]

Just the tip of the iceberg. The practice has been common knowledge for years and condoned by the money makers.

I wish they had spoken more of what happens when greyhounds don't make the grade as racers, but that's another story.

When it opened with the woman with 70 greyhounds as "pets", I knew we were going to be told a bunch of lies by the trainers/owners. The greyhound industry is the biggest puppy farm in the country.

Sick, cruel people. I hope they do enforce the two years in jail, but won't hold my breath.

The ABC did do a story last year on greyhound wastage, people were outraged at the death of thousands of greyhounds for about 5 minutes and then it was business as usual

Yes, but this time there are names attached to those who are doing this and indisputable evidence available. It is up to every one of us to make sure it isn't just business as usual - now we all know the truth.

[westiemum]

Just the tip of the iceberg. The practice has been common knowledge for years and condoned by the money makers.

I wish they had spoken more of what happens when greyhounds don't make the grade as racers, but that's another story.

When it opened with the woman with 70 greyhounds as "pets", I knew we were going to be told a bunch of lies by the trainers/owners. The greyhound industry is the biggest puppy farm in the country.

Sick, cruel people. I hope they do enforce the two years in jail, but won't hold my breath.

The ABC did do a story last year on greyhound wastage, people were outraged at the death of thousands of greyhounds for about 5 minutes and then it was business as usual

Yes, but this time there are names attached to those who are doing this and indisputable evidence available. It is up to every one of us to make sure it isn't just business as usual - now we all know the truth.

Well said

[Kirislin]

I wondered why some people's faces were blurred out, as if they're innocent and not involved. But they were there with their dogs and participating.

I cant stop thinking about the Tooradin footage. I raced my whippets there for 5 years. To think I'd turn up all excited and happy to have an afternoons racing, what fun!! and just an hour or so before that nightmare was being conducted.

[Kirislin]

I'll be watching it for sure. I know of live baiting and that is still goes on.

Hi Krislin,

The Victorian Integrity Commissioner is calling for people to come forward - you might want to consider making a submission - and I hope you do.

where did you see the call for people to come forward? Perhaps wreckitwhippet can report, every trainer she knows does it.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Kirislin

[HazyWal]

Just the tip of the iceberg. The practice has been common knowledge for years and condoned by the money makers.

I wish they had spoken more of what happens when greyhounds don't make the grade as racers, but that's another story.

When it opened with the woman with 70 greyhounds as "pets", I knew we were going to be told a bunch of lies by the trainers/owners. The greyhound industry is the biggest puppy farm in the country.

Sick, cruel people. I hope they do enforce the two years in jail, but won't hold my breath.

The ABC did do a story last year on greyhound wastage, people were outraged at the death of thousands of greyhounds for about 5 minutes and then it was business as usual

Yes, but this time there are names attached to those who are doing this and indisputable evidence available. It is up to every one of us to make sure it isn't just business as usual - now we all know the truth.

Well said

Do your research there are plenty of names of trainers all over this country that take greys in to be euthed at greyhound vets every single day. Not one or two half a dozen at a time, that's how got my Maddie. So what's your plan of attack? I'm not being smart it's a genuine question to both of you.

[WreckitWhippet]

When you're not in it for the money and your livelihood isn't determined by a dogs winnings, then you are less likely to drug an animal, treat it with care and respect it deserves and follow the rules.

I believe that live baiting is systemic and it's not isolated. I normally don't buy into animal lib, animals Australia or peta but in this instance I believe they are correct in their assumptions that the industry is rife with live baiting.

I have not personally seen a live animal on a lure. I have seen them in fenced off areas and corrugated iron bull rings and at the end of slip runs. I know where it happens locally and which trainers do it, it happens on private property, it's very unlikely they would come under suspicion as far as GRNSW is concerned there aren't any dogs on the property. (not according to their records )

How do you beat the corruption, cheating and cruelty ? I would suggest that GRNSW start with unannounced property inspections. They have the power to do so. They need to go armed with the lists of dogs that should be on the property, administer random drug testing and make their presence felt. You can bet that those who are live baiting are prepared to break more than one rule, if you don't catch them for that, they are bound to be doing something else.

I've seen quite a bit of owner/trainer outcry and demands for action, but call my cynical, I don't believe a lot of it is genuine. You've seen the one's calling for drug cheats and those who are baiting to be held accountable, I suspect many do so knowing it goes on in their yards and they won't be caught.

ETA: GRNSW could also ban putting anything dead on a lure, flirt pole or drag.

Edited February 17, 2015 by WreckitWhippet

[Cody]

When you're not in it for the money and your livelihood isn't determined by a dogs winnings, then you are less likely to drug an animal, treat it with care and respect it deserves and follow the rules.

I believe that live baiting is systemic and it's not isolated. I normally don't buy into animal lib, animals Australia or peta but in this instance I believe they are correct in their assumptions that the industry is rife with live baiting.

I have not personally seen a live animal on a lure. I have seen them in fenced off areas and corrugated iron bull rings and at the end of slip runs. I know where it happens locally and which trainers do it, it happens on private property, it's very unlikely they would come under suspicion as far as GRNSW is concerned there aren't any dogs on the property. (not according to their records )

How do you beat the corruption, cheating and cruelty ? I would suggest that GRNSW start with unannounced property inspections. They have the power to do so. They need to go armed with the lists of dogs that should be on the property, administer random drug testing and make their presence felt. You can bet that those who are live baiting are prepared to break more than one rule, if you don't catch them for that, they are bound to be doing something else.

I've seen quite a bit of owner/trainer outcry and demands for action, but call my cynical, I don't believe a lot of it is genuine. You've seen the one's calling for drug cheats and those who are baiting to be held accountable, I suspect many do so knowing it goes on in their yards and they won't be caught.

So you know who does it. Have you 'dobbed them in'?

[Maddy]

Just the tip of the iceberg. The practice has been common knowledge for years and condoned by the money makers.

I wish they had spoken more of what happens when greyhounds don't make the grade as racers, but that's another story.

When it opened with the woman with 70 greyhounds as "pets", I knew we were going to be told a bunch of lies by the trainers/owners. The greyhound industry is the biggest puppy farm in the country.

Sick, cruel people. I hope they do enforce the two years in jail, but won't hold my breath.

The ABC did do a story last year on greyhound wastage, people were outraged at the death of thousands of greyhounds for about 5 minutes and then it was business as usual

Yes, but this time there are names attached to those who are doing this and indisputable evidence available. It is up to every one of us to make sure it isn't just business as usual - now we all know the truth.

Well said

Do your research there are plenty of names of trainers all over this country that take greys in to be euthed at greyhound vets every single day. Not one or two half a dozen at a time, that's how got my Maddie. So what's your plan of attack? I'm not being smart it's a genuine question to both of you.

This.

It's the same thing every time- "The public must act, we'll stop [whatever] from happening" and then Tony Abbott says something stupid again and everyone forgets and nothing changes.

What I've noticed (and this is probably going to sound a bit cynical but whatever) is that people get all outraged- because it's no real effort- and then as soon as there's any actual work to be done, like a pack of meerkats who have noticed the shadow of an eagle hovering above them, they disappear in the blink of an eye. It really is quite a magic trick.

I can remember that big thing that came up over the destruction of greyhounds- masses of people were horrified by the sheer numbers, the methods used and the cruelty involved when there was an alternative- rehoming. Here was a great opportunity for the public to get behind rescue and make real changes to the lives of real dogs. But curiously.. yeahno. Speaking from my own experience, no increase in donations, adoptions or even interest. Outrage is free, actually helping is not. I've all but given up rescuing because trying to raise enough money to keep going was backbreaking work (for those of us who have ethics, anyway) and yet here are all these people who could make a difference but would rather just talk about it. At the end of the day, it seems like a lot of people just enjoy the communal back-patting and moral superiority that comes along with the outrage so yeah.. I see stuff like this and I can't help but roll my eyes.

[WreckitWhippet]

I'll be watching it for sure. I know of live baiting and that is still goes on.

Hi Krislin,

The Victorian Integrity Commissioner is calling for people to come forward - you might want to consider making a submission - and I hope you do.

where did you see the call for people to come forward? Perhaps wreckitwhippet can report, every trainer she knows does it.

With what evidence ? I'm sure as hell not going down a dirt road at the end of an industrial area with camera in hand to film it.

I have already reported dogs not being kept to the required standard, sent photo's (risked being caught getting them). They were living in a paddock without kennels and some others were living in smaller runs, with overgrown grass and no kennels. They are still there living the same way.

If the authorities want to stamp out corruption and cruelty, then they need to get off their arses and get out there, as suggested with random inspections.

[westiemum]

The Victorian Integrity Commissioner was on ABC 24 this morning and gave the 1300 number and email for people to come forward if they had information. They would then investigate the validity of the information.

[westiemum]

I'll be watching it for sure. I know of live baiting and that is still goes on.

Hi Krislin,

The Victorian Integrity Commissioner is calling for people to come forward - you might want to consider making a submission - and I hope you do.

where did you see the call for people to come forward? Perhaps wreckitwhippet can report, every trainer she knows does it.

With what evidence ? I'm sure as hell not going down a dirt road at the end of an industrial area with camera in hand to film it.

I have already reported dogs not being kept to the required standard, sent photo's (risked being caught getting them). They were living in a paddock without kennels and some others were living in smaller runs, with overgrown grass and no kennels. They are still there living the same way.

If the authorities want to stamp out corruption and cruelty, then they need to get off their arses and get out there, as suggested with random inspections.

Agreed. There is a formal investigation underway in Victoria and the Victorian Integrity Commission is asking for information and for people to come forward. You can give information anonymously as well.

[Kirislin]

I'll be watching it for sure. I know of live baiting and that is still goes on.

Hi Krislin,

The Victorian Integrity Commissioner is calling for people to come forward - you might want to consider making a submission - and I hope you do.

where did you see the call for people to come forward? Perhaps wreckitwhippet can report, every trainer she knows does it.

With what evidence ? I'm sure as hell not going down a dirt road at the end of an industrial area with camera in hand to film it.

I have already reported dogs not being kept to the required standard, sent photo's (risked being caught getting them). They were living in a paddock without kennels and some others were living in smaller runs, with overgrown grass and no kennels. They are still there living the same way.

If the authorities want to stamp out corruption and cruelty, then they need to get off their arses and get out there, as suggested with random inspections.

I dont know what evidence you have, I was only going by your first comment on this thread.

[Mille]

Just the tip of the iceberg. The practice has been common knowledge for years and condoned by the money makers.

I wish they had spoken more of what happens when greyhounds don't make the grade as racers, but that's another story.

When it opened with the woman with 70 greyhounds as "pets", I knew we were going to be told a bunch of lies by the trainers/owners. The greyhound industry is the biggest puppy farm in the country.

Sick, cruel people. I hope they do enforce the two years in jail, but won't hold my breath.

The ABC did do a story last year on greyhound wastage, people were outraged at the death of thousands of greyhounds for about 5 minutes and then it was business as usual

Yes, but this time there are names attached to those who are doing this and indisputable evidence available. It is up to every one of us to make sure it isn't just business as usual - now we all know the truth.

Well said

Sign petitions and participate in objections at animalsaustralia.org & RSPCA.org.au also ABC.net.au Four Corners very interested in any information.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Mille

[westiemum]

Just the tip of the iceberg. The practice has been common knowledge for years and condoned by the money makers.

I wish they had spoken more of what happens when greyhounds don't make the grade as racers, but that's another story.

When it opened with the woman with 70 greyhounds as "pets", I knew we were going to be told a bunch of lies by the trainers/owners. The greyhound industry is the biggest puppy farm in the country.

Sick, cruel people. I hope they do enforce the two years in jail, but won't hold my breath.

The ABC did do a story last year on greyhound wastage, people were outraged at the death of thousands of greyhounds for about 5 minutes and then it was business as usual

Yes, but this time there are names attached to those who are doing this and indisputable evidence available. It is up to every one of us to make sure it isn't just business as usual - now we all know the truth.

Well said

Do your research there are plenty of names of trainers all over this country that take greys in to be euthed at greyhound vets every single day. Not one or two half a dozen at a time, that's how got my Maddie. So what's your plan of attack? I'm not being smart it's a genuine question to both of you.

Hazy you're right. About 20,000 greyhound puppies are born each year in Australia. A fraction of those are racing, and less than 500 make it into greyhound rescue and overall about 2000 end their lives in loving homes. No prizes for guessing what happens to the rest. Your question is a good one I need to think about... adopting a grey and promoting their adoption after Mac falls off his twig would be a start...

Edited February 17, 2015 by westiemum

[Kirislin]

clearly they're racing the wrong breed. I didn't have to blood my whippets with live kills. They were so easy to train and when I'd go to the greyhound track to run them the greyhound trainers used to look at them going psycho on the end of the lead while waiting their turn and comment that they wish they could get their dogs that keen.

I hope they dont start racing whippets professionally though, just saying they're alot keener than greyhounds.

[westiemum]

This report appeared in InDaily today (InDaily is an independent online newspaper here in Adelaide). I've deleted the distressing photos which accompanied this report but they are online if anyone would like to view them - www.indaily.com.au

It would suggest this is systemic...

The investigator who helped uncover “live baiting” in the eastern states’ greyhound industry is certain the same cruel practices are happening in South Australia. And the local industry is also worried, flagging an increase in inspections and the introduction of covert surveillance of South Australian trainers.

The national greyhound industry is reeling from a graphic and disturbing Four Corners report last night which showed animals such as possums, rabbits and piglets being used as live bait to train greyhounds.

Seventy interstate greyhound trainers, including some leading identities, were implicated in the brutal training method, in which live animals are tied to mechanical lures and the dogs encouraged to chase and kill them.

Animals Australia investigator Lyn White, a former SA Police officer, said today that she was sure the practice was being used in South Australia’s greyhound industry.

“I have no doubt that live baiting occurs in South Australia as well,” she told ABC radio. “The other states’ racing authorities two weeks ago would have said that they had no evidence either and look what’s then been discovered there. From what we are gathering, it’s an entrenched practice in the industry.”

The lobby group wants state governments to take over regulation of the industry, a view echoed by the RSPCA in South Australia which has called for external oversight of animal welfare.

RSPCA South Australia CEO Tim Vasudeva told InDaily that he wanted animal welfare in the industry to be regulated by a properly resourced external body such as the RSPCA, a government department or local councils.Vasudeva said the RSPCA had no live investigations into live baiting and had never prosecuted a greyhound trainer for the practice – but he did have concerns it was happening here.

"It's clearly a systemic issue and not just one or two rogue operators – it's presumably widespread," he said.

"To suggest that it can't possibly happen in SA is a bit fanciful."

He said self-regulation didn't work.

"Self-regulation from our perspective is never a good thing and is generally not seen to be effective, particularly when you have people making a living off the back of animals."

Greyhound Racing SA has indicated it would be happy to give up some of its regulatory autonomy – or even all of it – if that's what is needed to ensure the integrity of the industry.

GRSA chief executive Matt Corby told InDaily he had been in talks with the State Government and the RSPA to increase its powers to inspect trainers, which at the moment were limited.

He expressed disgust at the practices revealed in the Four Corners report and promised to increase spending on inspections of SA greyhound trainers, including exploring the introduction of covert surveillance.

He said there was no evidence that live baiting was happening here but "we take little comfort from that because our monitoring processes aren't dissimilar from the eastern seaboard".

It would be disingenuous for the industry to say that there was no chance the practice was happening in South Australia.

"We shouldn't be satisfied that our monitoring is working – I think we need to accept that, quite clearly," he said.

Corby said GRSA had 1.5 staff members to inspect the state's 300 trainers, and it probably needed to double its investment in integrity processes.

However, he also said there were limits to the investigative powers of the industry and he had been talking to the RSPCA and the Government about bringing external investigative bodies into the regulatory regime.

"We have a primary objective here – it has to stop," he said.

Corby said he had briefed state Sports Minister Leon Bignell and state Environment Minister Ian Hunter.

Hunter said the Four Corners footage was "deeply disturbing".

"No allegations that these practices occur in South Australia have been raised, but we encourage anyone with information on such practices to come forward to the RSPCA or the South Australian Police," he said in a statement.

"These disgusting acts have no place in the industry and if they're happening in South Australia we will move to stamp them out immediately."

Ed to correct partial quote.

Edited February 17, 2015 by westiemum

[Mille]

Those that think the vast majority aren't doing it are naïve, there's just not a lot getting caught doing it. It's done at home kennels, private trials and break in tracks.

Whippet if thats true then the whole industry must become heavily government regulated or completely shut-down - preferably the latter. Any form of dog racing is now illegal in 39 states in the US - its time for us to go the same way.

High time -- evidenced by the proof exposed on Four Corners.