Epi - Anyone Know Anything About It?

[Heidley]

I have a 7 year old GSD with EPI, diagnosed nearly 4 years ago. Her symptoms were weight loss, dull coat and volumous stools which were a clay yellow in colour- she didn't have the usual cow pat type like many suffer from, she also had grumbling tummy noises and when she had wind it was horrible.

Her treatment is Creon 25000 one with each meal, she started on one 10000 and worked up from there. Enzplex is a waste of money for a dog with EPI not strong enough, might be helpful if she is borderline with her cTLI. It's a balancing act of food, enzymes, probiotics to keep her stable. My girl also had SIBO (Small intestinal bacterial overload) which is the part that causes the foul smell and tummy rumbling. We use Tylan successfully for this a long course but its a much better and more effective option. Food wise we use a grain free kibble called ERthborn holisitc it has been the right one for our girl i am not sure aout Sarah other health issues so may not be an option for you. There is a website called epi4dogs which has loads of information and a supportive forum.

[westiemum]

Headily thanks tons for posting. Snap!

Her symptoms were weight loss, dull coat and volumous stools which were a clay yellow in colour- she didn't have the usual cow pat type like many suffer from, she also had grumbling tummy noises and when she had wind it was horrible.

Sarah had really runny yellow diarrhoea which was just disgusting but not like the cow pat on the web site. But her wind can clear a room - its shocking. Although Sarah has put on weight of late her weight plummeted last year and i was really worried about her - she was investigated but we found nothing - but clearly didn't connect the dots well enough.

Thanks for the Enzplex advice. After I talk with the vet on Tuesday night I'll go from there - but I'll be surprised if Creon isn't on the cards. Couple of quick questions if you don't mind - is the cTLI test expensive? And I assume Tylan is an AB? (I haven't heard of that one before). And who made your GSDs diagnosis? Was it a specialist? (Please feel free to PM if you prefer).

Thanks very much again for posting - really appreciated.

Edited February 15, 2015 by westiemum

[Heidley]

Hi Wesitemum, I can't remember how much the test cost as our vet does most of his own although this one was sent out. It was about $150 but that was a while ago.

My vet made her diagnosis and very quickly unlike many vets as he had seen her symptoms before and has another patient with it.

Tylan is an antibiotic that is generally used for chickens and livestock, it however is very gentle and targets the gut/ intestines, it is meant to be soluable but I bought a cheap home capsule maker and use that as the powder is very bitter and dogs generally don't like the taste, also means the dosage is the same and not guess work.

Once stable our Indi has lead a very normal life :)

[westiemum]

Sorry I haven't got back to this thread sooner - we saw the vet late last week - he was very helpful. We are trying a course of Flagyl first. Then if there's no improvement we'll test some more. I must say she's been on them a week now and seems much better - but I'm wondering how long it will last. Will report back in a week or so. Thanks for your help everyone. :)

ETA: Forgot to add I bought a small bag of Earthborn Coastal Catch this afternoon and will slowly change Sarah over over the next couple of days. Hoping that will help her too.

Edited February 26, 2015 by westiemum

[stellnme]

Westiemum, has the Flagyl made a difference to Sarah? Wondering how it is going.

[westiemum]

Thanks for bumping and prompting stellnme - Sarah has just finished her course of Flagyl and is doing well. The test of whether or not it maintains now comes. I have to be honest - I'm not expecting it to maintain because of her history (she's had multiple courses of ABs in the past and her tummy troubles have always recurred). I'm keeping her on a fairly strict diet of turkey mince, turkey mix, rice and a grain free diet. Red meat and chicken seem to upset her as well.

And her paws are looking much better too (less licking and less badly stained). But the next couple of weeks will tell. We'll go back for more tests in the next couple of weeks if needs be. But so far so good.

Edited March 4, 2015 by westiemum

[tdierikx]

Be careful with multiple rounds of AB's too... too many too close together can cause Pancreatitis too...

T.

[stellnme]

Thanks for bumping and prompting stellnme - Sarah has just finished her course of Flagyl and is doing well. The test of whether or not it maintains now comes. I have to be honest - I'm not expecting it to maintain because of her history (she's had multiple courses of ABs in the past and her tummy troubles have always recurred). I'm keeping her on a fairly strict diet of turkey mince, turkey mix, rice and a grain free diet. Red meat and chicken seem to upset her as well.

And her paws are looking much better too (less licking and less badly stained). But the next couple of weeks will tell. We'll go back for more tests in the next couple of weeks if needs be. But so far so good.

Just had my Stella to the vets this morning - she's 14 and has bouts of pancreatitis. She's not eating very much and having some vomiting, so in an effort to get her to eat something, I cooked some turkey mince (well drained) and Basmati rice, which she ate. However, the vet told me this morning that turkey mince is very fatty. Stella does well on W/D dry with me being very careful not to give her anything with over 4% fat, but she will now try I/D food to try and stabilise her funny tummy. Just thought I would pass on about the turkey as I thought that would be okay to give her, but it seems not.

Hope Sarah continues to improve.

[Heidley]

Hope Sarah continues to improve and it doesn't turn out to be EPI :). All my dogs love the smell and taste of the Earthborn holtistic coastal catch only give it to our EPi girl and use it as treats for the others

[cavNrott]

Thanks for bumping and prompting stellnme - Sarah has just finished her course of Flagyl and is doing well. The test of whether or not it maintains now comes. I have to be honest - I'm not expecting it to maintain because of her history (she's had multiple courses of ABs in the past and her tummy troubles have always recurred). I'm keeping her on a fairly strict diet of turkey mince, turkey mix, rice and a grain free diet. Red meat and chicken seem to upset her as well.

And her paws are looking much better too (less licking and less badly stained). But the next couple of weeks will tell. We'll go back for more tests in the next couple of weeks if needs be. But so far so good.

Just had my Stella to the vets this morning - she's 14 and has bouts of pancreatitis. She's not eating very much and having some vomiting, so in an effort to get her to eat something, I cooked some turkey mince (well drained) and Basmati rice, which she ate. However, the vet told me this morning that turkey mince is very fatty. Stella does well on W/D dry with me being very careful not to give her anything with over 4% fat, but she will now try I/D food to try and stabilise her funny tummy. Just thought I would pass on about the turkey as I thought that would be okay to give her, but it seems not.

Hope Sarah continues to improve.

I still maintain that Enzyplex is very helpful to ward off Pancreatitis attacks. My Cavalier is given Enzyplex every day with her evening meal...without fail and she very rarely has a Pancreatitis attack. She's had only two attacks in the last 6 years.

It is expensive but lasts for ages and it works.

[sueang]

Hi All,

I've been having a lot of trouble lately with Sarah, my 13 year old westie who was desexed at the age of 5 after two litters with her breeder and had two bouts of HGE at ages 5 and 6 - I'm not sure if any of that is connected to her current gut/GI/continence difficulties. She is wee incontinent overnight almost every night for the last week - a huge increase on the occasional incontinence she's had for some years. It seems to happen when she's really deeply asleep. Wondering if the Stilboestrol has stopped working. I had to put 'pants' on her last night and the pad was wet this morning.

She is on a bland, turkey mince, ground turkey bone and basmati rice diet as anything else - especially red meat seems to make her worse. She walks hunched as if she has a pain in her belly. She has terrible wind that can clear a room, rumbly tummy, occasional yellow diarrhoea and vomiting. The occasional vomiting is bright yellow, foamy and has undigested 'bits' in it. Similarly the intermittent watery poo has a yellow tinge to it too and - and she has become more 'snappy' than usual around food. Last year she lost a lot of weight but since we've been 'home' in the new house she's put it back on again to the point where I think she's almost too heavy. Still eats well and wolfs her breakfast and dinner. Otherwise she seems happy enough and she's still wagging her tail.

A friend who is very knowledgeable about dogs and food suggested that I should check for EPI - I'd never heard of it. And certainly when I did a search it seems its a possibility. But I thought I'd check the DOL brains trust first. Has anyone any experience with this or can help me shed some light on what's going on here before we head back to the vet ? As in hindsight, I may not have given the vet enough to go on the first time. so we haven't got to the bottom of it.

TIA

Hi the yellow vomit sounds like acid reflux especially if shes doing it of a morning, my boy was doing it & put on 1/3 of 150mg about Zantac 1 hour before breakfast & 12 hours later another 1/3 Zantac, I give a small meal at 8.30pm-9pm every night so there's something in his stomach I have now started to use 3ml of the liquid Mylanta if he wakes up 3am or 4 am & is swallowing & licking his mouth I'm finding that the Mylanta is working better then the Zantac now, also feed low fat meals turkey breast 99% fat free sold at Woolworths is the best low fat meat, I put 1 egg to 1 kilo of turkey breast mince & make little rissoles & put on a baking tray & bake they cook in about 15mins they're beautiful I even eat some myself I either give a couple of the turkey breast risoles as a treat or I crush the little balls & I mix 1 teaspoon boiled pumkin or sweet potatoes, I can not feed boiled rice as it iratates Patches bowel as boiled rice has sharp corners, ur better off feeding mashed potatoes or the sweet potatoes instead of rice.... have you tried any vet diets I know that they don't have the best ingredients but the Hills I/D low Fat GI Restore wet tin has OK ingredients the fat is only 1.7% she cant keep having the diarrhea Id see vet & have blood test done for Pancreatitis....

[westiemum]

Thanks sueang - yes she's been checked for pancreatitis and it was negative. And yes she's on turkey protein only now and seems much better. The sweet potato instead of rice is a good idea.

I'll be honest - I don't like the idea of Hills at all - but I'll go there if I have to later. At the moment the Flagyl seems to have done the trick and she's much happier and her poo is solid and she's not vomitted for a couple of weeks. If I get the expected recurrence I'll certainly head back to the vet and go from there.

[westiemum]

Be careful with multiple rounds of AB's too... too many too close together can cause Pancreatitis too...

T.

Wow! Thanks T - didn't know that. She's off the ABs for now so I'm hoping that her whole system will now settle. She certainly seems happier.

[westiemum]

Hope Sarah continues to improve and it doesn't turn out to be EPI :). All my dogs love the smell and taste of the Earthborn holtistic coastal catch only give it to our EPi girl and use it as treats for the others

Yep thanks Heidley thats what i'm doing here too - she only gets the Earthborn as a snack in the morning and the boys, who appear to have cast iron stomachs get the VIP grander from the supermarket. I might change that after I get the never-ending house-build finished - but until that happens I have to watch every penny here. I'm living on rice and lentils myself to make sure Sarah gets what she needs - and its worth it cos it seems to be working.

[westiemum]

Thanks for bumping and prompting stellnme - Sarah has just finished her course of Flagyl and is doing well. The test of whether or not it maintains now comes. I have to be honest - I'm not expecting it to maintain because of her history (she's had multiple courses of ABs in the past and her tummy troubles have always recurred). I'm keeping her on a fairly strict diet of turkey mince, turkey mix, rice and a grain free diet. Red meat and chicken seem to upset her as well.

And her paws are looking much better too (less licking and less badly stained). But the next couple of weeks will tell. We'll go back for more tests in the next couple of weeks if needs be. But so far so good.

Just had my Stella to the vets this morning - she's 14 and has bouts of pancreatitis. She's not eating very much and having some vomiting, so in an effort to get her to eat something, I cooked some turkey mince (well drained) and Basmati rice, which she ate. However, the vet told me this morning that turkey mince is very fatty. Stella does well on W/D dry with me being very careful not to give her anything with over 4% fat, but she will now try I/D food to try and stabilise her funny tummy. Just thought I would pass on about the turkey as I thought that would be okay to give her, but it seems not.

Hope Sarah continues to improve.

I still maintain that Enzyplex is very helpful to ward off Pancreatitis attacks. My Cavalier is given Enzyplex every day with her evening meal...without fail and she very rarely has a Pancreatitis attack. She's had only two attacks in the last 6 years.

It is expensive but lasts for ages and it works.

Thanks CvR - I don't think we are at the pancreatitis scale of things - yet. I also want to just see how she goes for the next few weeks and see if we get a recurrence without muddying the waters with other meds. If it recurs, I know she'll need further testing - and to be honest i'm still suspicious its EPI - but I'm hoping the next few weeks will tell and I'll go from there. And at least her shocking wind has settled down!! Poor girl!! She was so embarrassed!!