Most Of This Diet Stuff Is Bull Dust

[sandgrubber]

There are bugger all scientific studies on dog feeding. Yah, yah, yah, the dogfood companies do 'feeding trials' lasting a few months, which show that your dog probably won't show any serious signs of malnutrition after feeding their wonderful product for a few months -- at least if your dog is like the small pack of laboratory beagles they tested on. Billinghurst's writings are full of fine yarns, but offer no rigor at all. Wolf experts contradict him on the veggie questions (wolf packs do not make stomach contents a priority). Modern raw stuff is pretty fatty. Wolf diet is mostly lean. etc. etc. etc. DNA work published in the highest profile science journals shows that dogs are better equipped to deal with starch than their wolf (presumed ancestral) counterparts.

I think there's solid evidence that there ARE many enterprises seeking to get you to pay more for each kilo of dogfood you buy by making you believe that grain is bad (again, with bugger all scientific evidence). I did a uni course on marketing long ago. This strategy is called "product differentiation" . . . .make your product stand out and you can charge more for it.

I admit to being a little drunk when posting this. But in my present state, so much of what I see posted on this versus that kibble and raw vs commercial vs home-cooked looks like a load of opinion with no substance.

Am I the only one frustrated by the difficulty of making sense out of all the hype?

p.s. I have Labs. They are true to type and will happily eat anything in any quantity and showing no signs of IBS, the runs, excessive fartin, or any other digestive problem. I fed raw when I lived in Oz, cause it was easy and cheap to get chicken frames, and there was lots of stuff around to tell you 'raw' was the way to go. I've moved to kibble since I've moved to the US because raw is far too expensive here. I had trouble keeping my dogs from getting overweight on a raw diet. . .. the frames I bought were very fatty and easy to toss 1.5 per dog per day. High end kibble is cheap in the US relative to Oz. So I gave up raw. My dogs are stying at a good weight but having some itch problems. The weight control is obvious: easier to measure kibble than raw stuff, and probably less fat. It's not obvious whether the itchy problem is a food issue or just the outcome of aggressive local fleas.

Edited February 9, 2015 by sandgrubber

[Dame Aussie]

I agree there seems to be not a lot of actual evidence re feeding the best diet, whatever that is, but more than anything I find it concerning that vets don't study nutrition. Assuming its still the same?

We mostly feed raw but keep kibble on hand, but to be honest, our guys do great on both.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Dame Aussie

[raineth]

I agree too.

I am also highly skeptical about the fads and fashions we see around feeding your dog, many of which seem to follow the 'super food' fads for humans. I am surprised feeding dogs Kale hasn't taken off actually.

[The Spotted Devil]

Oh hadn't you heard raineth... :laugh:

[tdierikx]

Can't wait to see what we learn about diet in my TAFE course...

T.

[Boronia]

Hahaha, I grow kale in the garden and put it into the dogs vegie slops

I also give it to the chooks

I have Super-Dogs

and

Super-Chooks

Back to topic-->Penny does get scabby skin if fed kibble with cereal but her skin is good when fed raw (along with the occasional dinner of grain-free kibble)

[Pjrt]

I am a raw feeder but I dont buy into the grain free etc etc. I feed raw because I believe that all animals should eat as less processed food as possible, and as close to a self feeding diet as possible. Therefore kibble has no place in my dogs life.

[raineth]

hahaha! That's adorable Boronia! Is that really your chook with a superman outfit!? If so I am super impressed

[Stressmagnet]

I feed Ernie a good quality kibble, chuck some chicken necks or a tin of sardines in and he's ready to go.

He will on occasion, get leftover brown rice,a lick out of the Greek Yoghurt tub, pasta leavings or an egg. Sometimes (to his immense joy) he gets gravy drippings.

I keep a close eye on his profile and if he's looking tubby, he gets cutback rations until he looks svelte again.

My sister in Canada feeds her Westies BARF. Her dogs are in wonderful shape and condition. If she moves here, I'm happy to feed Ernie the same if it makes her happy for all dogs to eat the same stuff.

I used to stress and stress about what I fed my dogs until I realised that I'd educated myself as best I could with all the contradicting data floating around. In fact, I'd educated myself into a stupor. I use common sense now, I worry less. I've never ever had a dog without a bounce in their step, clear eyes and a shiny coat. Apart from vaccinations and desexing and an annual checkup - my dogs have never had to see a vet.

Maybe I'm just lucky or (probably) I'm just lazy but no matter what I tead - I appeared to be doing things wrong so this is what I decided on.

[westiemum]

Excellent post sandgrubber. Couldn't agree more. You post well when you've had a few! The amount of stress and rot that goes into dog feeding debates is ridiculous IMHO. My westies do very well on raw and I actually agree with Gruf - the less processed the better - and for me and Gruf its soooo much cheaper and Adelaide Dog is so convenient! Yet others find their dogs do well on dry food ( whats this 'kibble' stuff??!! ). So feed what your dogs do best on and stress less!

Edited February 10, 2015 by westiemum

[Maddy]

Totally agree with the OP.

My dogs eat raw meat/bones, no pureed vegetables/probiotics/powders or any of that sort of stuff, because they love it and it works well for them. They also get the odd bit of kibble- in their treat toys or because I've forgotten to defrost their dinner- and all sorts of food scraps: chicken kiev, gristle from steaks, cheesecake (the Shitty Whippet loves cheesecake ) and they're both partial to chicken nuggets and other rubbishy foods (especially if those foods involve bacon).

Both are healthy and happy, without me having spent hours carefully plotting how much turmeric to mix into their coconut oil and shellfish slurry without throwing off the balance of the rose hips and unicorn dandruff powder.

[LisaCC]

I agree, I'm a firm believer of dogs do well on whatever they do best on. As I've said before my last dog with IBD did best on Pedigree Meaty bites. Explain that

Current dog is on a grain free food, why? Because he was getting itchy, I decided to trial a new food and the itching stopped. Do I think he can't tolerate all grains? No, it's probably just one of them causing a slight reaction, I'm going to guess wheat.

Vets DO study nutrition, but it is focused on all animals, and at least at my uni, unfortunately Hills, Royal Canin and a few other companies sponsor Vet Departments, so guess who gets to give guest lectures and sprout the benefits of their particular food?

So yes they do get told actual scientific facts about dog nutrition, but then they also get these companies coming in and telling them different things. Then a lot who go on to small animal practices again have those same companies in those practices.

Tdierikx, Hills sponsored the Cert II when I did it and gave the same 1st lecture that Vets get early on. Part of it was about how good corn was...

Oh and actual Animal Nutrition lectures never once said "Raw is bad", that would be coming from the food companies.

Edited February 10, 2015 by LisaCC

[persephone]

without me having spent hours carefully plotting how much turmeric to mix into their coconut oil and shellfish slurry without throwing off the balance of the rose hips and unicorn dandruff powder.

aaah yes :) LOL.

Our dogs get whatever is available - mostly fresh - home killed- prey-type food . When we don't do that they get dry food . House dogs get odd scraps , old dogs get added stuff like eggs/cheese/ yoghurt & some canned muck ...The only supplements used are things like ironcyclen for times of illness/hard work ..and extra oil/vitamins for oldies.

[Yonjuro]

Well, I don't agree... :)

I don't think it is rocket science to be honest. Yes, there is an overwhelming amount of contradictory information around these days, just like with human diets. Some fad or hype and some just common sense.

My daughter gets fed mainly unprocessed foods with the occasional sweets and processed food including takeaway - but these things makes up a small proportion of her diet. A vast number of kids are way overweight at her school at such a young age, so this begs the question...why? So why is feeding healthy food to a dog different to feeding healthy food your human family?

I feed Ronin raw unprocessed meats, bone and offal. And treats I make myself and even the odd bit of fruit and veg as a treat. I don't see this as any different to what you feed to human or dog if you want them to have the best opportunity to be healthy. I also feed supplements - I don't subscribe to the "what wolves did"... I feel aspects can be taken and improved upon now that we know that certain supplements certain properties that can be beneficial to health and wellbeing.

I do agree that some get carried away, and some may think of me as being too full on with diet too. I joined a raw feeding forum and was immediately put off by the extreme nature of their single-mindedness. I unsubscribed as it felt cult like

I also agree that wolves eating the stomach contents of prey in order to get grains is BS.

I don't think there is an evil plot by food manufacturers to brainwash vets into only recommending their particular brand :D But they are certainly aligning themselves to professionals in order to increase brand awareness and position in the market. Smart marketing but nothing new or outrageous. - my business is branding so far be it from me to knock them for this :laugh:

I don't think coconut oil, fish oil, turmeric and probiotics are akin to unicorn dandruff :laugh: But hey, I don't care if people think they are snake oil :)

I do think that grains may be okay for many dogs, but also believe that many are used as fillers in dog foods in order to make them more affordable. Meat is expensive so the bulk has to be made up with something else.

Is scarfing down a bowl of dry processed kibble that then requires the dog to consume lots of water the best way (generally speaking) or is fresh food better (generally speaking). Obviously different dogs have different requirements and issues that will require specific feeding regimes. BTW, I am not anti-kibble, I think there are some really good ones available these days and if you dog does well on the ones that are mainly cereals, corn etc, then that is good too.

Anyway, it is just a topic that I find fascinating and I really don't see why it seems to cause so much anger and frustration between dog enthusiasts? A forum is about discussion and sharing ideas and concepts, I don't agree with everyone and I certainly don't expect people to agree with me or share my beliefs on food and nutrition :)

I also respect the OP's and others views even though they may differ from mine.

[sas]

I think it's more of processed vs unprocessed in my books.

[Dory the Doted One]

I just finished re-reading Give Your Dog a Bone...it was a struggle.

I'm now reading Raw and Natural Nutrition for Dogs by Lew Olson PhD. A much, much better read and it does touch on actual nutrition information. It also doesn't cane, cooked home foods or even kibble. It does talk about supplements, but not like you HAVE to give them. Just that they can help.

We feed predominately raw here, with the odd bit of scraps and the odd bit of dry food (training treats, or oops...forgot to defrost something). I like the results I'm getting, that is my yardstick after having fiddled around a bit over the years.

[blakkjackal]

I'm with Yonjuro.

I guess I could be considered as passionate about feeding my dog, some say I take it too far as it is, after all, just a dog and they do just fine on table scraps and supermarket kibble. Whilst this might be true to an extent I don't want to feed "good enough", I want to do the best I possibly can for the animal I have chosen to be responsible for.

Prey model raw is my chosen way of feeding and I admit to having calculated my dog's vitamin and mineral needs to make sure whatever I'm feeding him is meeting them. IMO if you feed raw you gotta do it right, can't just chug a chicken frame or two in the bowl and think that's a good, balanced meal. Supplements are part of my dog's feed and if I wanted to, I could probably cut down on what I supplement but currently it isn't really achievable for me as I have poor access to e.g. fish.

People tell me all the time if I calculate my own vitamin needs and if I eat healthy, I admit I don't always, but then again we are also being taught about human nutrition from 1st grade onwards and it is pretty much inbuilt in people; eat your veggies etc.

Not at all the same with dogs, I bet your Average Joe doesn't know dogs can't make vitamin D out of sunlight like people can. Or that their calcium needs are actually a lot smaller than what BARFers think.

Once you invest some time and effort in learning the basics about canine nutrition it does become very easy and effortless to properly feed raw. Deficiencies are not easily detected and most of the time are already pretty severe by the time there are symptoms.

All this said though, I can definitely understand why people feed kibble and tbh it would be a nightmare if there wasn't premade and balanced dog food available. I don't expect everyone, not even every second one, to be as interested in the details of feeding their furry friend as I am but at the same time I don't see how it is a bad thing if I believe I'm doing the best I can by reading up on things. Some people have other priorities in their dog ownership and that's just fine.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Black_jackal

[Canisbellum]

I do think there is a lot of junk food out there but like with anything some people go to extremes. I don't feed raw mainly due to time limitations and due to assorted Shar Pei issues Jonah has to have minimal grains. I feed Blackhawk which while not grain free has minimal grains and I alternate Sardines and Frozen vegetables with their kibble and yoghurt. Supplements due to joint and skin issues are Rosehip, coconut oil and yu move. His once patchy coat is now full, he doesn't require weekly Malaseb washes anymore and hasn't had an ear infection in about a year. Is it over the top? Maybe so but it seems to be working

[Maddy]

My daughter gets fed mainly unprocessed foods with the occasional sweets and processed food including takeaway - but these things makes up a small proportion of her diet. A vast number of kids are way overweight at her school at such a young age, so this begs the question...why? So why is feeding healthy food to a dog different to feeding healthy food your human family?

There is a difference between packing your kid a healthy lunch of fresh foods and packing your kid supplements. If said kid is getting a good variety of foods, the diet shouldn't need to be "balanced" with dietary supplements.

Also, I assume you are aware that Protexin isn't actually labeled for daily use in healthy dogs? There is a reason for that but I'm sure you've done your research and understand why that is.

[Yonjuro]

My daughter gets fed mainly unprocessed foods with the occasional sweets and processed food including takeaway - but these things makes up a small proportion of her diet. A vast number of kids are way overweight at her school at such a young age, so this begs the question...why? So why is feeding healthy food to a dog different to feeding healthy food your human family?

There is a difference between packing your kid a healthy lunch of fresh foods and packing your kid supplements. If said kid is getting a good variety of foods, the diet shouldn't need to be "balanced" with dietary supplements.

Also, I assume you are aware that Protexin isn't actually labeled for daily use in healthy dogs? There is a reason for that but I'm sure you've done your research and understand why that is.

Yes I am aware of both of those things, thanks :) "Said kid" is also able to tell me when there is something wrong or explain it to a doctor :D

Edited February 11, 2015 by Yonjuro