"greyhounds As Pets"

[Maddy]

Sadly Hazy I think you're right here in Australia where discussion doesn't seem to be on the agenda - but I read the other day that dog racing of any sort is not only banned, its illegal in 39 states in the US - yes it seems they have essentially closed the greyhound racing industry down. I don't like or support nutters full stop and agree they do good causes a lot of damage - but whats the difference between the US and here where so many states have banned greyhound racing? Other industries to fill the void?

The situation in the US was/is quite different to Australia. in the US, greyhounds are generally housed at a track, in kennels that are basically very large crates. The dogs are turned out several times a day but the standard of care in many facilities was absolutely appalling. (there were other issues but it's complicated and I'm hot and tired :p )

Compare to Australia where greyhounds usually live with their trainer (for smaller trainers) or on large, purpose-built properties. These dogs live in decent sized runs and arguably have a much better quality of life. Most trainers I've dealt with do provide reasonable care (especially when considered against all the pet dogs who live lonely lives, locked away in backyards) and that's not my issue. As Lynn said, it's about numbers. Many breeders seem to go for a shotgun approach- breed enough puppies and invariably, one or two might do well. This, however, leaves you with a heap of other pups who aren't going to cut it. When I was rescuing, most of the surrenders were either 15 - 18 month olds (trialed and not fast enough) or 2 - 4 year old dogs who'd run a few races and either weren't fast enough or suffered an injury. Dogs with injuries are out for their own good but for the slow dogs, a different grading system could keep them in the game. As I've pointed out before, a race of slow dogs is still a race and you can still place bets on which slobby lazehound finally slothes past the post.

Many of the problems could be fixed but change in that sort of industry is very slow to happen. When I had to deal with the racing board down here, I was once told by the chairman that he didn't microchip his dogs because "them microchips cause cancer". *sigh*

[Yonjuro]

...yeah, I also heard the same about the US, my friend also mentioned that there was something about the particular muzzles they wear (where it is still legal) which sounded very bad.

As mentioned previously, my only direct experience with greys is at the park and it has been wonderful. Talking to Tigger's owner she mentioned how the racing greys love love love the track. It sounds similar to the big sled races for Huskies, the dogs go nuts for it, yet there will always be a minority of bad owners and bloody PETA have been trying to stop the Iditarod for years.

I am not a blind advocate for the racing industry as I don't know enough personally to make an impartial judgement one way or another. However, I do think that if snail racing became popular or a betting sport then there would be people up in arms about the animal's welfare regardless of how well they were looked after

Edited February 4, 2015 by Yonjuro

[megan_]

It is interesting how people have allowed PETA to hijack animal welfare and anyone who supports banning a sport or tighter controls is branded a nutter.

I personally would like to see betting rescteicted. That way, those that love watching their dogs race will continue, and those after the money will have no reason to continue with the sport.

[Maddy]

...yeah, I also heard the same about the US, my friend also mentioned that there was something about the particular muzzles they wear (where it is still legal) which sounded very bad.

As mentioned previously, my only direct experience with greys is at the park and it has been wonderful. Talking to Tigger's owner she mentioned how the racing greys love love love the track. It sounds similar to the big sled races for Huskies, the dogs go nuts for it, yet there will always be a minority of bad owners and bloody PETA have been trying to stop the Iditarod for years.

I am not a blind advocate for the racing industry as I don't know enough personally to make an impartial judgement one way or another. However, I do think that if snail racing became popular or a betting sport then there would be people up in arms about the animal's welfare

Probably bark muzzles. The US yard muzzles are fairly good (although not as good as the UK yard muzzles, which are lighter and better designed). A lot of greyhound owners here (pet owners) still use wire muzzles and honestly, these terrify me. Welds can break and when they do, it turns the muzzle into a mess of sharp wires.

This is a bark muzzle. They're not all that different from the regular nylon sleeve muzzles pet owners use for things like vet visits. They work by not allowing the dog to open its mouth wide enough to bark. There are a few different styles (wire, apollo strapping and strap closure) but yeah.. same sh*t, different bucket.

[Yonjuro]

I am great lover of animals, and would support that tighter controls were implemented if there can be a rational evaluation process :) I just think people need to be made aware of all of the facts before holding up placards - groups of the self righteous together are seldom restrained by reason or logic :)

The one thing I do know for sure, is that I don't have all the facts :)

I also think PETA are nut jobs

edit typo

Edited February 4, 2015 by Yonjuro

[Yonjuro]

...yeah, I also heard the same about the US, my friend also mentioned that there was something about the particular muzzles they wear (where it is still legal) which sounded very bad.

As mentioned previously, my only direct experience with greys is at the park and it has been wonderful. Talking to Tigger's owner she mentioned how the racing greys love love love the track. It sounds similar to the big sled races for Huskies, the dogs go nuts for it, yet there will always be a minority of bad owners and bloody PETA have been trying to stop the Iditarod for years.

I am not a blind advocate for the racing industry as I don't know enough personally to make an impartial judgement one way or another. However, I do think that if snail racing became popular or a betting sport then there would be people up in arms about the animal's welfare

Probably bark muzzles. The US yard muzzles are fairly good (although not as good as the UK yard muzzles, which are lighter and better designed). A lot of greyhound owners here (pet owners) still use wire muzzles and honestly, these terrify me. Welds can break and when they do, it turns the muzzle into a mess of sharp wires.

This is a bark muzzle. They're not all that different from the regular nylon sleeve muzzles pet owners use for things like vet visits. They work by not allowing the dog to open its mouth wide enough to bark. There are a few different styles (wire, apollo strapping and strap closure) but yeah.. same sh*t, different bucket.

Oh dear, those bark muzzles would be dangerous if the dog can open its mouth to cool itself down I do appreciate that you are sharing your views that come from far more experience that I have.

[WreckitWhippet]

I hate being tarred with the same brush as low life scum who mistreat their animals. There are a-holes that own and mistreat dogs across every walk of life. There are those that dump and destroy for very piss poor reasons.

I'm proud that I raced my dogs and will do so again with integrity and care. No drugs, no cruelty, no dumping when finished.

Both of the dogs below were racing and winning when this pic was taken.

[HazyWal]

It is interesting how people have allowed PETA to hijack animal welfare and anyone who supports banning a sport or tighter controls is branded a nutter.

I personally would like to see betting rescteicted. That way, those that love watching their dogs race will continue, and those after the money will have no reason to continue with the sport.

Well I don't think ringing trainers and threatening to harm their children is normal behaviour do you? Calling a trainer in the middle of the night because they have a greyhound on Gumtree FTGH and saying nothing but "watch your back scum" and hanging up. I have spoken to several trainers who have had threats made to them by these faceless heroes. I myself have had my name slandered on the AA pages labelling me a dog killer because I not only have friends that are trainers but work with decent ones to help home their greys. So yeah I stand by my branding of nutter.

[WreckitWhippet]

...yeah, I also heard the same about the US, my friend also mentioned that there was something about the particular muzzles they wear (where it is still legal) which sounded very bad.

As mentioned previously, my only direct experience with greys is at the park and it has been wonderful. Talking to Tigger's owner she mentioned how the racing greys love love love the track. It sounds similar to the big sled races for Huskies, the dogs go nuts for it, yet there will always be a minority of bad owners and bloody PETA have been trying to stop the Iditarod for years.

I am not a blind advocate for the racing industry as I don't know enough personally to make an impartial judgement one way or another. However, I do think that if snail racing became popular or a betting sport then there would be people up in arms about the animal's welfare

Probably bark muzzles. The US yard muzzles are fairly good (although not as good as the UK yard muzzles, which are lighter and better designed). A lot of greyhound owners here (pet owners) still use wire muzzles and honestly, these terrify me. Welds can break and when they do, it turns the muzzle into a mess of sharp wires.

This is a bark muzzle. They're not all that different from the regular nylon sleeve muzzles pet owners use for things like vet visits. They work by not allowing the dog to open its mouth wide enough to bark. There are a few different styles (wire, apollo strapping and strap closure) but yeah.. same sh*t, different bucket.

Oh dear, those bark muzzles would be dangerous if the dog can open its mouth to cool itself down I do appreciate that you are sharing your views that come from far more experience that I have.

If the dog couldn't cool itself down it would be dead. Bark muzzles are permitted in the kennels and are safe to use.

[Maddy]

Oh dear, those bark muzzles would be dangerous if the dog can open its mouth to cool itself down I do appreciate that you are sharing your views that come from far more experience that I have.

As dangerous as any sleeve muzzle, really. If there's one thing I hate seeing, it's people walking their dogs with a sleeve muzzle on- dangerous, pointless things as a dog can still bite- trust me on that one :/

The trouble with racing is that it could be okay. Remove the gambling, make it a hobby (no prize money) and only those who really loved the sport (and the dogs) would hang around. Unfortunately, it'll probaby never happen here.

[mita]

I've had greyhounds since 2003. I adopted mine mostly straight from their trainer then had then assessed by GAP. I got to know some trainers, even became friends with some great people involved in both racing and adoption.

There are some great people involved in racing, those who do right by their racing dogs and find homes for adoptable greys when they are no longer racing. My dogs would get so excited whenever they met up with their old trainer, they loved him. There are also people involved in racing that are not so great. One of my boys came from someone who doesn't even deserve to be in charge of a pet rock.

It gets said in every anti racing/pro racing debate but there are good and bad people involved in everything. And it's true. Racing, dog shows, pony club with kids and Shetland ponies. Both good and bad people exist everywhere, including in the racing industry.

I agree with all this! My tibetan spaniel, Angel, was a small dog tester in the GAP program here. I was so impressed with every aspect I saw. The greys were awesome, showing all the positives that their trainers in the racing world had already put into them. Beautiful, healthy dogs with gorgeous temperaments, and socially confident around strange people & my small dog. My little Angel adored them, loved meeting them & doing the required, trots & runs beside them, in front & behind them. Only part she hated was, at the completion of the test, when the grey was put into another car to go home. 'My new best friend is going!'

Edited February 4, 2015 by mita

[Yonjuro]

...yeah, I also heard the same about the US, my friend also mentioned that there was something about the particular muzzles they wear (where it is still legal) which sounded very bad. As mentioned previously, my only direct experience with greys is at the park and it has been wonderful. Talking to Tigger's owner she mentioned how the racing greys love love love the track. It sounds similar to the big sled races for Huskies, the dogs go nuts for it, yet there will always be a minority of bad owners and bloody PETA have been trying to stop the Iditarod for years.I am not a blind advocate for the racing industry as I don't know enough personally to make an impartial judgement one way or another. However, I do think that if snail racing became popular or a betting sport then there would be people up in arms about the animal's welfare

Probably bark muzzles. The US yard muzzles are fairly good (although not as good as the UK yard muzzles, which are lighter and better designed). A lot of greyhound owners here (pet owners) still use wire muzzles and honestly, these terrify me. Welds can break and when they do, it turns the muzzle into a mess of sharp wires.This is a bark muzzle. They're not all that different from the regular nylon sleeve muzzles pet owners use for things like vet visits. They work by not allowing the dog to open its mouth wide enough to bark. There are a few different styles (wire, apollo strapping and strap closure) but yeah.. same sh*t, different bucket.

Oh dear, those bark muzzles would be dangerous if the dog can open its mouth to cool itself down I do appreciate that you are sharing your views that come from far more experience that I have.

If the dog couldn't cool itself down it would be dead. Bark muzzles are permitted in the kennels and are safe to use.

Ahh, okay I must have misinterpreted this :)

Oh dear, those bark muzzles would be dangerous if the dog can open its mouth to cool itself down I do appreciate that you are sharing your views that come from far more experience that I have.

As dangerous as any sleeve muzzle, really. If there's one thing I hate seeing, it's people walking their dogs with a sleeve muzzle on- dangerous, pointless things as a dog can still bite- trust me on that one :/The trouble with racing is that it could be okay. Remove the gambling, make it a hobby (no prize money) and only those who really loved the sport (and the dogs) would hang around. Unfortunately, it'll probaby never happen here.

Thanks for the clarification :)

[Maddy]

It is interesting how people have allowed PETA to hijack animal welfare and anyone who supports banning a sport or tighter controls is branded a nutter.

I personally would like to see betting rescteicted. That way, those that love watching their dogs race will continue, and those after the money will have no reason to continue with the sport.

Well I don't think ringing trainers and threatening to harm their children is normal behaviour do you? Calling a trainer in the middle of the night because they have a greyhound on Gumtree FTGH and saying nothing but "watch your back scum" and hanging up. I have spoken to several trainers who have had threats made to them by these faceless heroes. I myself have had my name slandered on the AA pages labelling me a dog killer because I not only have friends that are trainers but work with decent ones to help home their greys. So yeah I stand by my branding of nutter.

That's the way I feel about it.

Maybe I'd have more sympathy for the activists if some of them hadn't come after me and made threats, called me all sorts of really nasty things and then, when they ran out of insults, they just made sh*t up.

Bearing in mind, I don't race greyhounds (never have, never will), I've spent more than eight years working to find homes for greyhounds. But because I "help" trainers by taking dogs from them, I'm an enemy of their movement, a monster, and apparently deserve to have my name and contact details (as well as other means of stalking) published on FB. Anti-racing people have told others not to support my rescue in any way and to boycott what I do. Bluntly put, that kills dogs. I struggled to keep a small rescue going, worked my arse off trying to raise funds to be able to take more dogs but in the end, it just got too much. I put myself into debt in an effort to continue rescuing and these people, these "animal lovers", purposely sabotaged that. So.. yeah.. not much love from me.

[megan_]

Sigh. I never said I support people. What I said is that we've let them hijack animal welfare and anyone who cares about animal welfare gets branded a nutter, regardless of whether they are or not. I see it all the time on DOL: " you support x. PETA supports x. Therefore you support PETA". The logic is flawed.

[Maddy]

Sigh. I never said I support people. What I said is that we've let them hijack animal welfare and anyone who cares about animal welfare gets branded a nutter, regardless of whether they are or not. I see it all the time on DOL: " you support x. PETA supports x. Therefore you support PETA". The logic is flawed.

In my experience with them, animal welfare isn't really what they're interested in. It's animal rights and those things aren't the same. In this context, having concerns about the welfare of the dogs compared to being opposed to making a dog run around a track because it's "cruel".

If you have sensible points to make regarding welfare, I'm certainly not going to call you a nutter. Animal welfare is an area I feel very strongly about. Animals rights, on the other hand.. no. I believe that animal "rights" have the potential to compromise animal welfare because one is based on science and the other is based on too many Disney movies.

[Brandiandwe]

I work quite closely with GAP. I prefer their approach because they work with owners and trainers to think of a career for their dogs post-racing, be that as a puppy or a dog who's won tens or hundreds of dollars. I'm in touch with one of my dogs' trainers/ breeders. Paige never raced, but this trainer loves seeing the pictures and reading the updates of Paige's life as Ruler Of The Universe.

My own view of greyhound racing is that the breeding must be contained and controlled - limiting the number of people who can breed, and controlling the dogs who are bred from. This is done with other breeds and with many horse breeds, but the number of greys bred needs to be reduced.

I've also used bark muzzles for training. It's easier to get treats into the mouths with them at classes but I don't exercise them in them and never in the heat.

[LisaCC]

Sigh. I never said I support people. What I said is that we've let them hijack animal welfare and anyone who cares about animal welfare gets branded a nutter, regardless of whether they are or not. I see it all the time on DOL: " you support x. PETA supports x. Therefore you support PETA". The logic is flawed.

In my experience with them, animal welfare isn't really what they're interested in. It's animal rights and those things aren't the same. In this context, having concerns about the welfare of the dogs compared to being opposed to making a dog run around a track because it's "cruel".

If you have sensible points to make regarding welfare, I'm certainly not going to call you a nutter. Animal welfare is an area I feel very strongly about. Animals rights, on the other hand.. no. I believe that animal "rights" have the potential to compromise animal welfare because one is based on science and the other is based on too many Disney movies.

[mackiemad]

Sigh. I never said I support people. What I said is that we've let them hijack animal welfare and anyone who cares about animal welfare gets branded a nutter, regardless of whether they are or not. I see it all the time on DOL: " you support x. PETA supports x. Therefore you support PETA". The logic is flawed.

In my experience with them, animal welfare isn't really what they're interested in. It's animal rights and those things aren't the same. In this context, having concerns about the welfare of the dogs compared to being opposed to making a dog run around a track because it's "cruel".

If you have sensible points to make regarding welfare, I'm certainly not going to call you a nutter. Animal welfare is an area I feel very strongly about. Animals rights, on the other hand.. no. I believe that animal "rights" have the potential to compromise animal welfare because one is based on science and the other is based on too many Disney movies.

I think you are both trying to make the same point here: that animal 'rights' groups like peta are dangerous and bullocks and that their influence in animal welfare is extremely negative.

The difference in what you are both saying is that megan is saying that if you are interested in animal welfare only, the negative experiences of animal rights group have tarnished the reputation of those only concerned with welfare.

Sorry, just felt there was a little talking last each other when you're actually in heated agreement - those that fervently believe in animal rights are ruining animal welfare for both people and animals.

Whilst overbreeding is an issue, part of me is at least impressed that some of the overflow is 'usefully' used - even if it ends in euthanasia. The thoroughbred racing industry doesn't even have that...

[westiemum]

Thanks Maddy - good explanation.

[Maddy]

Sigh. I never said I support people. What I said is that we've let them hijack animal welfare and anyone who cares about animal welfare gets branded a nutter, regardless of whether they are or not. I see it all the time on DOL: " you support x. PETA supports x. Therefore you support PETA". The logic is flawed.

In my experience with them, animal welfare isn't really what they're interested in. It's animal rights and those things aren't the same. In this context, having concerns about the welfare of the dogs compared to being opposed to making a dog run around a track because it's "cruel".

If you have sensible points to make regarding welfare, I'm certainly not going to call you a nutter. Animal welfare is an area I feel very strongly about. Animals rights, on the other hand.. no. I believe that animal "rights" have the potential to compromise animal welfare because one is based on science and the other is based on too many Disney movies.

I think you are both trying to make the same point here: that animal 'rights' groups like peta are dangerous and bullocks and that their influence in animal welfare is extremely negative.

The difference in what you are both saying is that megan is saying that if you are interested in animal welfare only, the negative experiences of animal rights group have tarnished the reputation of those only concerned with welfare.

Sorry, just felt there was a little talking last each other when you're actually in heated agreement - those that fervently believe in animal rights are ruining animal welfare for both people and animals.

Whilst overbreeding is an issue, part of me is at least impressed that some of the overflow is 'usefully' used - even if it ends in euthanasia. The thoroughbred racing industry doesn't even have that...

Down here, a lot of TBs end up as greyhound food so it's really not much different.