TMLover92 Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I am the proud owner of a beautiful 7 month old Tibetan Mastiff bitch. I wanted some advice and opinions regarding what is turning out to be quite a controversial topic in my opinion. We have always desexed our dogs. That's been a given where I'm from. When my boyfriend and I decided to get another dog, and eventually found the TM breed- I researched as much as I could and spoke to owners of other large/giant breed dogs. Most dog owners I've spoken to suggest delaying spaying until maturity is reached, in which case my girl will be around 3. Another option I've been strongly considering is tubal ligation. I understand she will still come on heat but she'll also get the full benefit of her growth hormones without the risk of unwanted puppies- seems like a win/win. As I understand it, not many vets perform this procedure in Australia. I've joined forums and groups on facebook and after speaking to many overseas dog owners, trainers, breeders and vets I've found that in many countries, especially in Europe, full spaying and neutering is extremely rare and in a lot of cases, only done if there is a medical need for it. The most popular ways to prevent unwanted litters seems to be tubal ligation/vasectomies or supervision. After hearing this I just assumed that maybe Australia is behind with regards to other sterilisation techniques. I have also heard from some vets from overseas that they find these procedures easier and less invasive. A few vets in Australia do perform these procedures, however I can't seem to find any in SE QLD. A lot of vets around my area disregard the topic completely and I'm getting quite disheartened. I understand the benefits of fully spaying and I can appreciate that this is often the best coarse of action for many dogs, however, I want to do what I feel is best for my pet. I would love for her to reach full maturity with the help of those growth/sex hormones without the risk of getting pregnant. I do understand the risks of pyometra and mammary cancer, however I also understand that these illnesses tend to appear in older dogs and if monitored closely, as my dog will be, I will be able to avoid any serious conditions. There's also the argument that spaying after 6 years old can increase longevity for up to 3 years. If you respond to this, please don't presume I'm being an irresponsible pet owner for not wanting to completely spay my dog. I only want what is best for her overall and from what I've read and heard from other people in my position, I feel as though tubal ligation may be it. If anyone would care to comment and give advice or if anyone knows of any vets who perform this procedure in SE QLD I would greatly appreciate it. (I've had the yellow pages out and googled as many vets as I can and no luck so far) Thanks again :D (I've attached a picture of my baby girl at 8 weeks old- I may be biased but she's without a doubt the most adorable puppy ever! ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaCC Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) I agree with your thinking 100%, especially for a giant breed. I can't help with finding a vet that will perform a tubal ligation but hopefully someone will. Possibly look for a veterinary university? I wouldn't want the students doing it but they might know of a vet that does it. Edited January 28, 2015 by LisaCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darien Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I have never heard of tubal ligation for a dog, but I agree it would be a very good idea for some of the giant breeds. I wish you luck in your search of a vet who will do it for you. LisaCC has a good suggestions, try the uni vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjosa Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Can you find a repro vet, we have one here in SA who does the tubal ligation, it works really well and also vasectomies on the male puppies, I agree that it is less invasive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 You could also do an ovary sparing spay. Significantly lowers risk of pyo (I am told the stump where the uterus used to attach could rarely still get it? Something to discuss with a vet) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*kirty* Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Why not just leave her entire until 3yo then desex her? They only come on heat once or twice a year and its not too hard to manage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Why not just leave her entire until 3yo then desex her? They only come on heat once or twice a year and its not too hard to manage. that is what I would do as well. Even if the tubes are tied you still have to treat her as an entire bitch when she is in season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 If you have the ability to confine/closely monitor her then i would just leave it and desex her at 3. I think that you have obviously done your research and well done for trying to be fully informed and doing what is best for your girl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DobieMum Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 It's a Greencross vets, but I know the vets at Redbank Plains do Tubal Ligations etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DobieMum Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 (edited) Sorry double post Edited January 28, 2015 by DobieMum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 My father, who was a medical doctor, always did tubal ligations on his girls (dogs, that is). This was in the 70's and 80's. He just felt it was more natural, and didn't much mind them coming on season. It's a simple operation compared to a spay. He never seemed to have trouble convincing his vet to do it. Maybe you just need to talk with a few vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 There's really not that much you can do to prevent pyometra, close monitoring won't prevent it. I'd do as others suggested and leave her entire until 3, then desex. I believe it is common Europe to perform ovariectomy only. Without the influence of the ovarian hormones the risk of pyo is greatly reduced so removing the uterus isn't thought to be necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMLover92 Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 Thank you to everyone for your advice. I've contacted a couple of universities and searched for repro vets. I'm willing to wait until she's reached maturity before spaying if I need to. It would be preferable to not have to put her through two surgeries. Thanks again :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOLO Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I can't think of many reasons for tubal ligation. Most of the reasons advanced (eg Pyo, Mammary & Ovarian cancer) will remain. The only one would be if you believe you would otherwise be unable to stop her reproducing? I suppose if you had both male and female dogs. And since it was mentioned, there is basically zero reason to perform a vasectomy, again unless you have entire male and females and consider it easier to sterilise the male. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) I can't think of many reasons for tubal ligation. Good reason to do a tubal. She's on the table after the second C-section. You believe in free whelping. A tubal is just two snips and the vet is happy to do it. A full spay would be messy and the vet won't do it without giving her months to get her hormonal balance back to neutral . . . at which point she'll have to get opened up again. My father did tubals because he figured dogs probably enjoy sex and didn't want to deprive them of the opportunity :) . But he didn't want puppies. Edited January 30, 2015 by sandgrubber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DobieMum Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Some breeders do this, so dog can grow up with much needed hormones, but can't be bred from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedFeather Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I can see the benefits, removing all sex hormones (especially during a critical growth stage) will have potential effects on growth and maturation etc. Also, I'd imagine a tubal is a less invasive and easier surgery? It definitely is in humans but obviously humans aren't dogs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavis Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 I have nothing to add but will mention that I can't see the photo. I need to see this cute dog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I can't think of many reasons for tubal ligation. Most of the reasons advanced (eg Pyo, Mammary & Ovarian cancer) will remain. The only one would be if you believe you would otherwise be unable to stop her reproducing? I suppose if you had both male and female dogs. And since it was mentioned, there is basically zero reason to perform a vasectomy, again unless you have entire male and females and consider it easier to sterilise the male. I can, the dog brows to its full potential without being able to have babies. I see it as a good way to gaurd against dogs being bred from or sold to PF's inadvertently and them then pumping puppies out. The dog has the benefit of hormones for growth. For boys, I like my boys when they are entire. I had one have the Suprelorin implant, he was too soft, painfull to try and train and had no resilience. Once that wore of he was was back to the drivey, pushy, fantastic dog to train that I liked. If I had a boy I didn't want to breed from I would do a vasectomy if there was entire bitches on the property to make sure there was no risk of mismatings. I wouldn't do a TL and never spey. I would do a TL on a young pup and then desex once mature. I personally can keep them seperated with relative ease so I would just desex when 2 or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMLover92 Posted February 1, 2015 Author Share Posted February 1, 2015 There's really not that much you can do to prevent pyometra, close monitoring won't prevent it. I'd do as others suggested and leave her entire until 3, then desex. I believe it is common Europe to perform ovariectomy only. Without the influence of the ovarian hormones the risk of pyo is greatly reduced so removing the uterus isn't thought to be necessary. aussielover I'd heard that it's pointless performing an ovariectomy on a giant size dog purely because there's no point in leaving the uterus if she isn't getting the benefit of leaving her ovaries. I've finally managed to find a surgeon at a University who is willing to discuss performing a tubal ligation or an ovary sparing spay. They aren't usually performed but many of the specialists at the uni have been getting requests from owners asking about these procedures. Maybe we're starting a trend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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