Liamj Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Hi all, I have a golden Labrador whose dad was a carrier for EIC but her mum was clear of EIC (clearly shown on the papers for both parents). But, Bronte shows signs that she actually has EIC, which I didn't think would be genetically possible?? After playing fetch with a ball, sometimes after 10-15 minutes of play, she gets the staggers and collapses. She loves fetch with her ball and has an incredible focus and determination to get her ball as fast as possible. This is my first experience with EIC (our other lab shows no signs whatsoever), so could it be anything else? We are really mindful of this happening and try to limit her play so that is doesn't occur, but sometimes it surprises us when it appears, so we just sit with her, keep her cool and encourage her to rest and relax. Any ideas/thoughts are most appreciated? Liam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliwake Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Have you seen a vet about it yet? I assume she could be genetically tested to see if she has it, and if so, you'd have to question her supposed breeding? I too thought both parents would have to be a carrier... Bit hard to fake the mum though... Perhaps it's something else with similar symptoms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonwoman Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Hi all, I have a golden Labrador whose dad was a carrier for EIC but her mum was clear of EIC (clearly shown on the papers for both parents). But, Bronte shows signs that she actually has EIC, which I didn't think would be genetically possible?? After playing fetch with a ball, sometimes after 10-15 minutes of play, she gets the staggers and collapses. She loves fetch with her ball and has an incredible focus and determination to get her ball as fast as possible. This is my first experience with EIC (our other lab shows no signs whatsoever), so could it be anything else? We are really mindful of this happening and try to limit her play so that is doesn't occur, but sometimes it surprises us when it appears, so we just sit with her, keep her cool and encourage her to rest and relax. Any ideas/thoughts are most appreciated? Liam I have heard test is not 100%, friend got caught Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) She shows signs - but has she been diagnosed? Could it be something else? if you do not have a diagnosis - as pepe001 mentioned - hypoglycaemia is a possibility . Friends had a dog behave in a similar fashion - took a while to get a correct diagnosis :) Edited January 21, 2015 by persephone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe001 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Just from a quick read of the condition it seems that there can only be 4 possibilities. 1. your dog hasn't got the parents as listed on the papers. 2. their test was wrong or 3. the 'knowledge rules' describing the genetics is incorrect or 4. it has a different condition such as blood sugar issues etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliwake Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Hi all, I have a golden Labrador whose dad was a carrier for EIC but her mum was clear of EIC (clearly shown on the papers for both parents). But, Bronte shows signs that she actually has EIC, which I didn't think would be genetically possible?? After playing fetch with a ball, sometimes after 10-15 minutes of play, she gets the staggers and collapses. She loves fetch with her ball and has an incredible focus and determination to get her ball as fast as possible. This is my first experience with EIC (our other lab shows no signs whatsoever), so could it be anything else? We are really mindful of this happening and try to limit her play so that is doesn't occur, but sometimes it surprises us when it appears, so we just sit with her, keep her cool and encourage her to rest and relax. Any ideas/thoughts are most appreciated? Liam I have heard test is not 100%, friend got caught Wow, if this is right, perhaps it would be best practice to only breed when both parents are shown clear for EIC in future. Then hopefully worst case scenario would be one incorrect test and the pup being a carrier, but not having the disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) Just from a quick read of the condition it seems that there can only be 4 possibilities. 1. your dog hasn't got the parents as listed on the papers. 2. their test was wrong or 3. the 'knowledge rules' describing the genetics is incorrect or 4. it has a different condition such as blood sugar issues etc. I'd go with (3) and wonder if it is not a simple recessive gene. Then again (1) is also possible. Quick reading of the research doesn't indicate any issues with the test. ANY dog bred to a clear should not display symptoms if the DNA test is effective. I'm not one for not breeding carriers if the tests wor. kYou lose a lot of genetic material and there are bigger issues than EIC about. Edited January 21, 2015 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liamj Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Thank you all for your considered thoughts. We have not had her diagnosed, but have been considering it and believe that would be the most appropriate next step. I would be very surprised if her parents were incorrectly listed. The possibility of it being something else is probably what most concerns us. We can manage the EIC tbh, which is why I was interested to see if anyone else had any similar experiences. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I find it a bit odd that you have watched this collapse on several occasions , and not sought a vet's opinion ... Once would be enough for me! How old is this dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*kirty* Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Unfortunately DNA tests are not always 100% accurate. Not because the DNA test is wrong as such, but because we are realising there are multiple 'strains' of a condition or multiple genes at work, etc. We have been seeing lots of DNA tested clear dogs developing conditions they have been cleared of - one breed in particular stands out. We did some probing and found out that the DNA test for that breed has been under scrutiny for a while, but this information has not been shared with breeders or vets! We have also seen carriers develop the condition. It's still a relatively new science and its so important that things like this are reported to breeders and the labs doing the tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenchel Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The DNA test for EIC is very stable and accurate. The problem can be with the laboratory that administers the test - there have been many incorrect test results issued, not because the test is invalid, but because there has been a mistake in the handling, administration or reporting of the test results. (I speak from sad experience) Having said that, there are other forms of collapse in Labradors that may not be EIC. I would suggest you have your dog tested for EIC with the laboratory in the US that discovered the gene mutation. http://www.cvm.umn.edu/vdl/services-and-fees/canine-neuromuscular/canine-exercise-induced-collapse-eic/submission-guidelines/index.htm Your vet should be able to organise the taking of samples and sending them to the US. Depending on the result, you can then follow up the parents' results, or maybe who the parents really are!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 As with everything in life, genetic testing has to be recorded by a human and human error is possible. The tests do work and most results are accurate but there is room for human error when recording results and he odd one does escape the double checking process. Get your dog tested and if it is affected then it up to the breeder to work out how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 (edited) As with everything in life, genetic testing has to be recorded by a human and human error is possible. The tests do work and most results are accurate but there is room for human error when recording results and he odd one does escape the double checking process. Get your dog tested and if it is affected then it up to the breeder to work out how. I once pushed to have a dog re-tested after the 10 pups he threw were genetically improbable (odds worse than 1:1000). The second laboratory that did the tests came out with results different from the first, and consistent with the colors expressed in the litter. This was just a trivial coat color test . . . but it did teach me that genetic tests are sometimes wrong. Personally, I'd suggest to the breeder that the supposedly clear dog be re-tested. If the laboratory is ethical, they should be happy to do this at no cost. FALSE GENETIC TESTS ARE A BIG THREAT TO ANYONE WHO USES TESTING TO TRY TO IMPROVE ON THEIR BREED. A good laboratory can reduce human error to vanishingly low frequency (<1:10,000) and should be happy to retest when their results are called into quesion. If genetic testing is to be of any use to breeders, we MUST insist on quality control. Sloppy genetic testing is inexcusable. On the other hand, EIC is complicated. I've known many Labs who were EIC positive and totally asymptomatic. What you describe sounds like it may be something else. Edited January 21, 2015 by sandgrubber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapua Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Hi all, I have a golden Labrador whose dad was a carrier for EIC but her mum was clear of EIC (clearly shown on the papers for both parents). But, Bronte shows signs that she actually has EIC, which I didn't think would be genetically possible?? After playing fetch with a ball, sometimes after 10-15 minutes of play, she gets the staggers and collapses. She loves fetch with her ball and has an incredible focus and determination to get her ball as fast as possible. This is my first experience with EIC (our other lab shows no signs whatsoever), so could it be anything else? We are really mindful of this happening and try to limit her play so that is doesn't occur, but sometimes it surprises us when it appears, so we just sit with her, keep her cool and encourage her to rest and relax. Any ideas/thoughts are most appreciated? Liam I wonder if it could be CA ( Cerebellar Abiotrophy) but certainly ask the breeder to retest the dam as has been said previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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