Puppy Crying

[OSoSwift]

She's toileting once a night so when she cries we can take her out for the toilet and then straight back to bed with a treat or something.

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I wouldn't treat her after an overnight toilet trip. Just keep it quiet, don't look at her, keep it dark etc, you don't want to stimulate her or condition her to expect a treat, when you want her to go back to sleep. Good luck, she sounds adorable - some pups are more challenging than others!

I agree with what Clyde has said here.

The other thing I would like to add to the various suggestions given to you is that you actually get up to the pup BEFORE the whinging/barking for toilet commences. For example, if you know it's 4am that she needs the toilet by, aim to get up 15 minutes to half an hour before that (pain in the butt as that might be, but hopefully only for the short term). Take her outside, do the usual toileting administrations, pop her back to her comfortable crate and go back to bed yourself, until 15 minutes to half an hour before the next toilet stop time that you're aware of.

Working this way, you're not teaching your pup that it's her barking that gets her your attentions. Quite the contrary, you're teaching her that being quiet gets her your attentions.

Yes yes and yes - I agree with this as well.

[Simply Grand]

[Olivebaby]

Thanks all for the really great suggestions. I'm going to try all the options with the pen first and if that doesn't work then I will give the crate a go. I'm on nightshift for the next few nights (no sleep AGAIN) so I'm sure my OH will report back if it's successful. Will let you know how it all goes. She's pretty fantastic during the day and can already hold a stay while I leave the room so at least I can be thankful for that. :)

[suziwong66]

the best way to get some sleep and have a more quiet puppy at night is to crate in your room. Preferably beside your bed at bed height. I did this with my current two labbies for the first few months when they came home and rarely had an issue with crying.

Later, when puppy is more settled and developed you can move the crate into the lounge room. I've only just moved our 21 week old labby girl into the lounge room, this week, to encourage her independence and the move was as smooth as silk. No crying, she just went to sleep.

[Christina]

I know the old sage advice about leaving them to cry, teaching them to be independent, blah, blah.

Puppies are like children. Eventually they'll WANT to be independent, but not when they are little. We gave up on the traditional methodology with our penultimate puppy, and didn't even bother with our last. They cuddled with us in our bed.

Have you tried putting her with your other lab? Pups crave PHYSICAL contact.

As above & the opposite to advice about isolating/crating more. I also wondered if she would cuddle up to your other dog as you don't want her on your bed which is a instant remedy. She may wake feeling very lonely & trapped if the other dog is walking about.

I also think the breeder advice is very callous & unkind & am glad you ignored that.

[Stressmagnet]

My kelpie was like this as s pup. We put up with it fir 3 weeks (ermahgawd no sleep) before I bought a crate and stuck it next to my bed. Problem solved. It's the human company they miss.

Also getting up 15 mins before she starts to make a ruckus is GOLD advice. Did this with all my pups - set alarm, take pup out with NO interaction (no cuddles, strokes or talking). Pup toilets, say 'good girl', pop her back into crate and stuck earplugs in. Took all my pups 2-3 days to get the message.

[mornaw]

Perhaps removing the water bowl after her evening meal or after last night toileting may help. Then a fresh bowl of water after first toileting in the morning. If she's restless and lapping water to help pass the night her little tank will be extra full.

[Stressmagnet]

Ah yes. None of my dogs got water after 8pm. Ernie is awesome at holding his bladder but I don't want him uncomfortable or getting a bladder infection.

[Christina]

I know the old sage advice about leaving them to cry, teaching them to be independent, blah, blah.

Puppies are like children. Eventually they'll WANT to be independent, but not when they are little. We gave up on the traditional methodology with our penultimate puppy, and didn't even bother with our last. They cuddled with us in our bed.

Have you tried putting her with your other lab? Pups crave PHYSICAL contact.

She is also in the pen when we are at work for the same reason and obviously to keep her (and our house) safe.

Maybe she hates being in the pen if she is in there all night & when you are all working how long is the puppy actually in the pen ?

An alternative is to make one room in the house puppy proof so she has more room to run & play. Space where she can actually exercise & have a mad 10 minutes or so cavorting around if she feels like it.

Kitchen, hallway, laundry that opens onto a passageway & use puppy pen panels, big piece of wood or similar to block off if no door, you can put heavy chairs or stuff on the other side to hold whatever in place. Much time in a pen & then alone all night is a lot for a young puppy to cope with & a bit mean IMO although I know many are trained this way.

[piper]

The other thing I would like to add to the various suggestions given to you is that you actually get up to the pup BEFORE the whinging/barking for toilet commences. For example, if you know it's 4am that she needs the toilet by, aim to get up 15 minutes to half an hour before that (pain in the butt as that might be, but hopefully only for the short term). Take her outside, do the usual toileting administrations, pop her back to her comfortable crate and go back to bed yourself, until 15 minutes to half an hour before the next toilet stop time that you're aware of.

Working this way, you're not teaching your pup that it's her barking that gets her your attentions. Quite the contrary, you're teaching her that being quiet gets her your attentions.

I second this. Jazz was a nightmare as a puppy - worst I have had. Seriously could have killed her or sent back to the breeder at 1 point, I like my sleep!

We had "operation keep puppy awake" - about an hour and a half before bedtime we spent an hour ensuring she didn't crash and have a nap - played with her, trained her, had the big dogs play with her. Then she was given half an hour unwind time with toilet stop as well. This was so she was tired when she went to bed (as well as early morning screaming we had screaming when going to bed as well). Before going to bed I would prepare a kong or something else for her but not give it to her. I would get up during the night for a toilet stop before she started whinging and every few nights changed the time by 5 or 10 minutes. Then in the morning just before her usual wake time, I would get up toilet her and then put her in the crate with the kong. This gained us an extra couple of hours in the morning. And as with the first toilet stop I gradually moved that time back as well so that eventually the kong was breakfast.

Good luck! It does get better.

[Olivebaby]

So after being woken up 3 times today, post 12 hour night shift I am not going to muck around with the pen anymore. I'll buy a crate in the morning and start the crate training. Thanks all for your excellent suggestions. Just wondering whether anyone has any recommendations on good crate training links, websites or resources. I've never used one before and don't know anyone who has. Bloody hell this tiny little thing has cost me a fortune. She is so much harder than my first pup.

[suziwong66]

vebo pets; best and cheapest crates around. They're in Sydney but have an online shop an eBay shop and will freight anywhere in the country. I've bought all my crates and ex pens from them. they've got thicker wire on their crates; excellent quality.

[Olivebaby]

vebo pets; best and cheapest crates around. They're in Sydney but have an online shop an eBay shop and will freight anywhere in the country. I've bought all my crates and ex pens from them. they've got thicker wire on their crates; excellent quality.

Ohhhh they look good. How long does delivery usually take and what size do you use for yours? You have labs right?

[suziwong66]

for my 3yo boy lab i've got their 42" crate on framed wheels and for my 21 week old girl i've got the next size down. if and when she grows out of it i'll get the next one on wheels; i really like the mobility of the ones on wheels. Additionally, i didn't start my two off in their big crates; they both started off in a pp40 travel crate. it got too hot for my girl so i moved her into the wire crate quite quickly. i put pet Snooza futons in the base of the wire crates because they're really easy to wash and dry in the dryer.

Vebo delivery is usually about a week; not long at all and certainly less than a fortnight in my experience.

[suziwong66]

for beside your bed, i'd buy a smaller one and then upgrade when puppy grows out of it. A. because i don't have a lot of room in my bedroom for a full sized crate and b. you don't have to cordon off half the crate. some pups will evacuate in a larger crate. mine never did, but some do and to stop that, you must make the crate living area smaller.

edited to add: can you borrow a travel crate from a friend till you purchase one? seriously, your life will be so much better when puppy sleeps next to you crated.

Edited January 9, 2015 by suziwong66

[Olivebaby]

for beside your bed, i'd buy a smaller one and then upgrade when puppy grows out of it. A. because i don't have a lot of room in my bedroom for a full sized crate and b. you don't have to cordon off half the crate. some pups will evacuate in a larger crate. mine never did, but some do and to stop that, you must make the crate living area smaller.

Okay perfect. Thanks so much. My plan is not to crate long term so I'll buy the smallest suitable size to get us through this period. The wheels are a great idea for moving it between bedroom at night and play pen when we are out.

[Olivebaby]

for beside your bed, i'd buy a smaller one and then upgrade when puppy grows out of it. A. because i don't have a lot of room in my bedroom for a full sized crate and b. you don't have to cordon off half the crate. some pups will evacuate in a larger crate. mine never did, but some do and to stop that, you must make the crate living area smaller.

edited to add: can you borrow a travel crate from a friend till you purchase one? seriously, your life will be so much better when puppy sleeps next to you crated.

No I wish. I actually have a really great pet supplies shop near me so I'll have a look tomorrow and see if I can pick one up from there, if not I'll go online. What's another $100 when I've already spent almost $3000 on this little thing.

[Stressmagnet]

This is how I crate trained:

Get a couple of 'special' toys that pup only can have in the crate - no where else.

Start off by throwing the yummiest treats in the crate and leaving the door open so pup can come and go.

Feed pup in the crate.

Don't close pup in until she is freely going in and out.

At bedtime. Say 'crate' or 'bedtime' (or whatever) and chuck a small amount of treats in there. I also make sure they have a cuddly toy to cuddle. Then I close the door, switch off the light and IGNORE. Lack of stimulus + treat + cuddly thing = sleep.

It may take a couple of nights but they usually catch on quick. In the day, the crate is left open, we practice going in and out but otherwise don't make a big deal about whether they are in or out -- with the exception of the SPECIAL toys which are NOT allowed out of the crate at all. Ernie has a pig which he keeps trying sneak out of his crate but NO WAY BUDDY.

Ernie has 2 crates - one in the lounge room when we are going out for a while and want him safe. He gets the TV on Animal Planet and his toys. We say .'crate', in he goes. Also useful when he's behaving like a pork chop and I need a break from bouncy labrador.

The other is in my bedroom. I say 'bed' and in he goes. He gets a treat for going in, and another because he's so darn handsome. He usually flops down and crashes but if he's huffing and puffing and sighing like an old man, he stops when I say 'sleepy time' and switch the light off.

I've partially covered the back ½ of his crates to make them a bit more den like. He loves them both. And when he's tired in the evening, he starts staring at me with those big golden eyes, and races to bed when it's time.

Crate training is the best thing ever,

Edited January 9, 2015 by Stressmagnet

[Olivebaby]

That actually sounds like the most adorable thing ever. I really hope this works for us. I don't think I can handle many more sleepless nights. I'm so patient in general, and working shift work I'm not used to a good sleeping routine but I kid you not I am at my limit. I never had to do anything special for my first, she didn't even have a pen and she's just so good.

Hopefully naughty pup will eventually follow in big sisters paw steps.

[Simply Grand]

I know it's really really difficult but you HAVE TO ignore the crying. It may literally go for 12 hours straight but you CANNOT react once you have her crated. At 11 weeks she IS old enough to manipulate so get the crate, get her tired, put her in at bedtime and IGNORE. I'm a shift worker too a d my dogs have learned thru consistency that if I'm sleeping you can do what you want but you'll get no attention from me. Best of luck!

ETA my bedtime cue is "beddies", it means I'm going to bed so you should too or get kicked out of the family areas and sleep on your own. Calm consistency is the key.

Edited January 9, 2015 by Simply Grand