Puppy Crying

[Olivebaby]

Hi all,

My gorgeous 11 week old lab baby is driving me mad and I need some advice and sleep! Now I know she is just a baby but we have had her for 3 weeks now and it's not getting any better. At 4.30 every morning she starts crying and barking and won't stop.

We have tried Getting up and taking her out to the toilet but have found she just won't settle again after.

Currently she sleeps in a pen. She has water, toys, a cozy bed and a pee pad which she uses at night time only. I put treats in her kong before bed to keep her occupied and She is in the living area with our 4 year old lab.

We have tried ignoring her but only make it to about 5am and then get up. We have a housemate and the neighbours are close by so I'm very conscious of the noise she makes.

She gets plenty of play, training, excercise and attention so I just don't know what we are doing wrong.

I emailed my breeder and she suggested I get up, tell her 'NO' and give her a gentle smack if necessary but I am completely opposed to the idea of snacking my poor little puppy.

I am not a first time puppy mum but I haven't experienced this for such an extended length of time before. What am I doing wrong? What can I do better?

Edited January 8, 2015 by Olivebaby

[Olivebaby]

I will also add, Clovers pen is covered, she sleeps with one of our T-shirts and I have just started leaving the TV on low and covered so it's not so quiet. These changes have made no difference at all.

[RiverStar-Aura]

Is it possible to move her into your bedroom and start crate training her? The problem I feel puppy pens create is a too large and often distracting area whereas if she's in s crate, this limits the pup's amount of nighttime freedom.

Good on you for not wanting to smack the puppy -- shocking advice IMO.

Crates also give you the option of covering them over to keep the darkness around longer.

Also, make sure if you're getting up to toilet her, don't say anything. Take her out to pee then back to bed.

Oh and we need photos!! :D

[Olivebaby]

Thank you for the advice. We don't want her in the bedroom as the bedroom is really the only Off limits room we have and we don't want her to get used to being in here. I doubt she's lonely as she has her big sister but even Poor Olive is getting sick of the noise. We hear her come and lay outside our room as soon as Clover starts up.

I've never used a crate before, I know a lot of people do with success. If crating is the only way to keep her quiet we could start and put it in her pen. Or perhaps block off half the pen at night time to make it cosier.

Yes I'm really disappointed with the breeders advice. I feel that it won't fix anything and just make everyone sad. So that's not going to happen.

[Olivebaby]

I'm trying to add some photos but apparently the size is too big.

[The Spotted Devil]

I agree - crate in the bedroom :) I start my pups off like this and it takes a week for them to sleep through until 6am. Which is bliss when you're spending the rest of your spare time cleaning up after them lol! In general dogs have much more value for our company as opposed to a dog (there are some interesting scientific studies around this). Get her in the habit of sleeping through the night first and then gradually move the crate further from the bedroom until she's sleeping where you want her to. Crates used carefully are a fantastic training tool. Also make sure she's not too hot/cold/thirsty/ or needs to toilet.

Edited January 8, 2015 by The Spotted Devil

[Olivebaby]

Okay I'll buy a crate and try this method. Anything is better than the present 4am yapping alarm clock. I'm a nurse so have an early start anyway and this is killing me.

She's toileting once a night so when she cries we can take her out for the toilet and then straight back to bed with a treat or something.

How on earth can something so damn cute drive me so mad? Haha

She's a cheeky bugger, lucky we are totally smitten with her.

[Maddy]

Thank you for the advice. We don't want her in the bedroom as the bedroom is really the only Off limits room we have and we don't want her to get used to being in here. I doubt she's lonely as she has her big sister but even Poor Olive is getting sick of the noise. We hear her come and lay outside our room as soon as Clover starts up.

I've never used a crate before, I know a lot of people do with success. If crating is the only way to keep her quiet we could start and put it in her pen. Or perhaps block off half the pen at night time to make it cosier.

Yes I'm really disappointed with the breeders advice. I feel that it won't fix anything and just make everyone sad. So that's not going to happen.

An unrelated adult dog is not necessarily company for a new puppy.

[aliwake]

our lab boy was the same, except we reached a point where he was crying every 30mins through the night! My husband and I caved and crated him next to our bed, and it's the only way we got our lives back! He definitely settled MUCH better.

At about 9 months he decided he didn't want to sleep in our room any more and moved himself out, so it may not be forever :)

[dancinbcs]

I have raised numerous puppies with the pen system you have set up with no problem at all. Make sure she is cool enough at this time of year. Covering the pen may be making her hot and that could be complaining about that. Two things are vital and that is not to give in at the start and to make sure her last meal of an evening is one hour before bed, no earlier. It takes about 9 hours for food to pass through a puppy so feed last thing at night and give her a chance to toilet and play for an hour. Then she should settle for approx 8 hours. If you are feeding too early she will need to poop in the early hours and may not want to use the pee pad for that and she will be hungry. Remember Labs are always hungry. If you get up to toilet her put her back in the pen and leave her there until you are ready to interact with her. If you give in and let her out she has trained you to do that. If you cannot sleep, get up and do other stuff in the house but ignore her. No games and no food until you want her to have it. A serious growl at her for making noise should work if you then make sure you wait for her to be quiet for a few minutes before letting her out. She should catch on that the only way to be let out is to be quiet. I would also still be putting her in the pen for intervals throughout the day so she learns to be quiet in there, whenever she is put in there. The pen is for quiet time and no matter when, you decide when to let her out and it only ever happens when she is quiet.

If all else fails can you put her in a confined area with the adult dog at night? That may settle her down. I have also done that with puppies and they seem happy to be with another dog.

[persephone]

Ok-

she may be hot .?

the other dog may move around about that time, waking teh pup- who then gets frustrated and barks to get out ...?

she may be going to bed too early?

[Steph M]

Can I suggest as well, take her out to wee later.

Keep her up a little later to do that last wee or make sure you get her up.

Everyone else is right, it shouldn't be party time, just out, wee, back to bed.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Steph M

[Olivebaby]

I have raised numerous puppies with the pen system you have set up with no problem at all. Make sure she is cool enough at this time of year. Covering the pen may be making her hot and that could be complaining about that. Two things are vital and that is not to give in at the start and to make sure her last meal of an evening is one hour before bed, no earlier. It takes about 9 hours for food to pass through a puppy so feed last thing at night and give her a chance to toilet and play for an hour. Then she should settle for approx 8 hours. If you are feeding too early she will need to poop in the early hours and may not want to use the pee pad for that and she will be hungry. Remember Labs are always hungry. If you get up to toilet her put her back in the pen and leave her there until you are ready to interact with her. If you give in and let her out she has trained you to do that. If you cannot sleep, get up and do other stuff in the house but ignore her. No games and no food until you want her to have it. A serious growl at her for making noise should work if you then make sure you wait for her to be quiet for a few minutes before letting her out. She should catch on that the only way to be let out is to be quiet. I would also still be putting her in the pen for intervals throughout the day so she learns to be quiet in there, whenever she is put in there. The pen is for quiet time and no matter when, you decide when to let her out and it only ever happens when she is quiet.

If all else fails can you put her in a confined area with the adult dog at night? That may settle her down. I have also done that with puppies and they seem happy to be with another dog.

Okay the poop time thing!!! Why didn't I think of that. I think you may have just figured it out! I feed her between 5-6 pm and bingo 4 am wake up time.

Tonight I'll feed her later and uncover her pen and see how we go. It we can make the pen work that would be preferable to starting again with a crate. I'll also buy a pedestal fan to set up in front of the pen. We have a ceiling one in the lounge but it's pretty useless. I hope you are right. Fingers crossed for a miracle. I will report back in the morning x

[Olivebaby]

Ok-

she may be hot .?

the other dog may move around about that time, waking teh pup- who then gets frustrated and barks to get out ...?

she may be going to bed too early?

Yes Olive is a fidgeted so possibly. She's going to bed about 9.30-10 which is when we go to bed.. Tonight I'll put her in her pen about 8pm and let her settle in there, last toilet at about 10 then straight back in pen. The pen is right near the lounge so she's won't be alone until we go to bed. Fingers crossed

[YOLO]

I know the old sage advice about leaving them to cry, teaching them to be independent, blah, blah.

Puppies are like children. Eventually they'll WANT to be independent, but not when they are little. We gave up on the traditional methodology with our penultimate puppy, and didn't even bother with our last. They cuddled with us in our bed.

Have you tried putting her with your other lab? Pups crave PHYSICAL contact.

[Olivebaby]

I know the old sage advice about leaving them to cry, teaching them to be independent, blah, blah.

Puppies are like children. Eventually they'll WANT to be independent, but not when they are little. We gave up on the traditional methodology with our penultimate puppy, and didn't even bother with our last. They cuddled with us in our bed.

Have you tried putting her with your other lab? Pups crave PHYSICAL contact.

We did consider that but she's not going all night without needing to wee and poo yet. We were hesitant to let her have free run until she can last all night. We don't want to be searching for land minds in the morning. She is also in the pen when we are at work for the same reason and obviously to keep her (and our house) safe.

[Clyde]

She's toileting once a night so when she cries we can take her out for the toilet and then straight back to bed with a treat or something.

her.

I wouldn't treat her after an overnight toilet trip. Just keep it quiet, don't look at her, keep it dark etc, you don't want to stimulate her or condition her to expect a treat, when you want her to go back to sleep. Good luck, she sounds adorable - some pups are more challenging than others!

[Simply Grand]

With mine as pups I've always had them up and around me right until I'm going to bed then last toilet, into crate or room where they'd be sleeping. Then ignore any noise. First one slept in the bathroom with a baby gate so he could hear/smell me in my room across the hall, second, third and foster were in a crate at first. I didn't do proper full crate training though, I used a large crate that had room for a small pup to sleep up one end and toilet on a pee pad up the other end, then crate opening into ensuite as they got a bit bigger etc so same principle as a puppy pen.

I don't know if it actually helped them being really tired because they'd been up late but they all slept pretty well from the first night. The only one who was noisy was foster puppy, she cried quite a lot the first night from the crate in my room but I just ignored her (as in didn't respond at all, lay with eyes closed as though I was sleeping) and the second night she cried a little then gave up and was fine from then. She moved out to a different room when she got too big for the crate just because of how the house was set up, a little whinge then but ignored again and she settled.

When I say keep them up I don't mean keep waking them up from naps and doing active games etc, just having them around me interacting with me and the other dogs, snoozing when they want but I found they wouldn't properly settle for the night until everyone went to bed and by then they'd be so pooped they'd be too tired to stay awake and cry.

Just an extra thing to think about, along with the other advice :)

[Tapua]

Could I make some suggestions to re-establish night time crate training. Can you purchase 2 crates one for you older and another one - the same size for the baby ... she will grow into it. Place the crates in your lounge room next to each other and routinely feed the dogs in the crate do the usual toileting and help puppy to see the crate as a safe positive place to be. When you are going to bed remove all water and food. Place a cotton sheet or something obscuring the view from either side so both dogs can only see straight ahead. Toilet both dog and then place both to bed... and you go to bed. No toys nor food no water. dark room no stimulation. Ignore any whinging. If she gets you up to toilet, lead on no talk walk outside - 'good dog' for doing a wee poo - straight back to bed. No talk no conversation no lights. Ignore whinging. If she starts carrying on. A firm UTT! No ( no hitting of course) go back to bed. My pups are awake at dawn so atm that is 0530. But I see no reason why she shouldn't sleep solidly from 2200 to atleast 0530/0600. Kongs, toys water food are for daytime and when you are at work. Night time minimal to no stimulation. Do you normally crate you older dog? if not then crate her too. If you prefer she isn't crated then take her into your room. An older dog moving around freely is a disturbance and a stimulation to puppy. Bedtime is not a discussion for anyone in my house bed is bed and they stay there till dawn. Give it a go.

[Erny]

She's toileting once a night so when she cries we can take her out for the toilet and then straight back to bed with a treat or something.

her.

I wouldn't treat her after an overnight toilet trip. Just keep it quiet, don't look at her, keep it dark etc, you don't want to stimulate her or condition her to expect a treat, when you want her to go back to sleep. Good luck, she sounds adorable - some pups are more challenging than others!

I agree with what Clyde has said here.

The other thing I would like to add to the various suggestions given to you is that you actually get up to the pup BEFORE the whinging/barking for toilet commences. For example, if you know it's 4am that she needs the toilet by, aim to get up 15 minutes to half an hour before that (pain in the butt as that might be, but hopefully only for the short term). Take her outside, do the usual toileting administrations, pop her back to her comfortable crate and go back to bed yourself, until 15 minutes to half an hour before the next toilet stop time that you're aware of.

Working this way, you're not teaching your pup that it's her barking that gets her your attentions. Quite the contrary, you're teaching her that being quiet gets her your attentions.

Edited January 8, 2015 by Erny