Pets Die In Sa Boarding Kennel Fire

[OSoSwift]

forget it no point arguing with uneducated dickheads

typical immature response when people can't articulate their argument/point of view, they lash out instead.

I tried you are not listening

If this whole situation wasn't such a tragedy, this would have me . You are casting this aspersion at labadore simply because she disagrees with your position. She could just as well say the same about you.

And you are the one posting insulting remarks and calling people names ..... simply because they don't agree with you.

Ah nope.

Lab adore was the one saying kennels do not have adequate evacuation/fire plans and that they are more worried about saving themselves than their boarders.

Labadore is wrong.

[OSoSwift]

Frustration is not my best emotion to deal with especially when people have no idea. And seem to refuse to hear what you are saying, until you get rude.

[VizslaMomma]

Given the very large number of pets that were boarded there I wonder is it wise for this to be allowed by councils in high risk bush fire areas ?

I'm not sure what the definition of high risk is, but there hasn't been a major fire in that area since Ash Wednesday in 1983. And the one before that was about 30 years back again.

Very difficult to ever predict what fire may do.

Years ago, my Aunty living in Hobart, Tasmania, was in a neighbourhood that came under duress because of bush fires.

Her husband had put sprinklers, pool,generator and every possiblee thing he could think of to be able to protect their place.

She was away working in Hobart when they got the call to go home to defend their home. ( No mobiles back then.)

Turned out the fire roared along her road. Engulfed her neighbour's property yet jumped theirs. She got home to find neighbours & strangers busy throwing her belongings out of the house. One wall only was singed.

[Loving my Oldies]

Turned out the fire roared along her road. Engulfed her neighbour's property yet jumped theirs. She got home to find neighbours & strangers busy throwing her belongings out of the house. One wall only was singed.

WHAT?? :eek:

[Red Fox]

Curious, not critical.... Is it unrealistic to contact owners of boarders on days of catastrophic fire danger and give them the option to collect (or have an emergency contact collect) their animals?

[VizslaMomma]

Turned out the fire roared along her road. Engulfed her neighbour's property yet jumped theirs. She got home to find neighbours & strangers busy throwing her belongings out of the house. One wall only was singed.

WHAT?? :eek:

Seriously, she was a bit bemused. Nothing was stolen. That was a practice in the area she lived in then. think the idea was maybe something might be saved...

[Loving my Oldies]

Turned out the fire roared along her road. Engulfed her neighbour's property yet jumped theirs. She got home to find neighbours & strangers busy throwing her belongings out of the house. One wall only was singed.

WHAT?? :eek:

Seriously, she was a bit bemused. Nothing was stolen. That was a practice in the area she lived in then. think the idea was maybe something might be saved...

Oh, I thought you meant they were so upset that her house was saved when theirs weren't. Phew, I was thinking all sorts of horrible things.

[VizslaMomma]

Curious, not critical.... Is it unrealistic to contact owners of boarders on days of catastrophic fire danger and give them the option to collect (or have an emergency contact collect) their animals?

If those are the known conditions, there would be no time. If full evacuation was not happening, then defence of the property might be.

Would phones even be working?

I recall some years ago for the NSW Rural Fire Service, we would lose radio contact out of the blue.....

(inserts roll eyes smiley at the panic that makes.)

All of this would depend on circumstances, imho.

[teekay]

Yes I know myself and others that dare to question what he was doing out fighting fires away from his property when he should have been helping protect the pets entrusted in his care are being crucified, as apparently being a firefighter volunteer absolves you from any other responsibility. I am following up on this line of inquiry as well.

Can we have rolly eye man back yet?

I don't even know where to start on this BS.

I am unclear about which bit you think is bullshit Steph. Do people think it appropriate he had, apparently, left the property to fight the fires leaving his 16 year old daughter in charge? Imo he should never have left his daughter, regardless of the animals. This info may not be correct, I am just commenting on what's been said here.

[Red Fox]

Curious, not critical.... Is it unrealistic to contact owners of boarders on days of catastrophic fire danger and give them the option to collect (or have an emergency contact collect) their animals?

If those are the known conditions, there would be no time. If full evacuation was not happening, then defence of the property might be.

Would phones even be working?

I recall some years ago for the NSW Rural Fire Service, we would lose radio contact out of the blue.....

(inserts roll eyes smiley at the panic that makes.)

All of this would depend on circumstances, imho.

"Catastrophic" is a fire danger rating. It doesn't necessarily mean that there are fires burning, rather that there is a severe risk in bushfire prone areas (eg the Adelaide Hills), and that the safest place to be in these conditions is away from the area.

http://www.cfs.sa.gov.au/site/fire_bans_and_ratings/more_about_fire_danger_rating.jsp

[labadore]

Curious, not critical.... Is it unrealistic to contact owners of boarders on days of catastrophic fire danger and give them the option to collect (or have an emergency contact collect) their animals?

According to posts that the owners made on their Facebook page which has now been taken down, they posted that a number of owners had contacted them on days prior right up to the day before the tragedy about picking up/organsing to pickup their pets as they were concerned about the extreme/catastrophic conditions and they were advised, their pets were safe despite the fact that other animal owners in the vicinity were evacuating their animals and offered their help along with other offers of help from people who sensed the danger. They advised on Facebook that these posts were to update owners/people due to the number of phone calls they were receiving.

When I have boarded my dogs in kennels, the forms/information you fill out requires emergency contacts to be contacted in emergency situations and this would have been one of them.

Edited January 6, 2015 by labadore

[Steph M]

Yes I know myself and others that dare to question what he was doing out fighting fires away from his property when he should have been helping protect the pets entrusted in his care are being crucified, as apparently being a firefighter volunteer absolves you from any other responsibility. I am following up on this line of inquiry as well.

Can we have rolly eye man back yet?

I don't even know where to start on this BS.

I am unclear about which bit you think is bullshit Steph. Do people think it appropriate he had, apparently, left the property to fight the fires leaving his 16 year old daughter in charge? Imo he should never have left his daughter, regardless of the animals. This info may not be correct, I am just commenting on what's been said here.

More that this person is "following up on lines of enquiry" and griding that axe real hard.

If the guy was fighting a fire elsewhere and the roads closed on him, I'm not sure what Labradore expects him to have done?

I highly doubt half of what has been said here and on facebook is fact, and it bugs me its being taken as gospel and speculated on as such.

Its like vultures picking over disaster, who benefits if fault is found with the owners? People are gung ho finding things to pick at and frankly its a terrible loss for everyone, I'd like to leave it be and let it work itself out. The Facebook jury does more harm than good.

I'm sure there will be an investigation by proper means in due course.

All the speculation is doing in the mean time is making life miserable for kennel owners, pet owners and making it harder for them all to get back on their feet when its all done.

I feel for everyone but most of all the pets, those who didn't make it and those who did. Just awful, I'd rather spend my energy wishing peace to those who didnt make it out and a speedy recovery to those who did.

[Jed]

I'd like to see people not vilifying the kennel owners for what was, in hindsight, an error of judgement. They have lost everything. They thought they'd be safe staying. They were wrong. That is a situation that has confronted many many people confronted by bush fires in this country and my guess is they wont be the last.

Sitting in judgement on the internet without full possession of the facts is what I expect on social media. That doesn't make it right. It certainly is not compassionate, nor helpful to those who have suffered the loss of their pets.

Their job was to be responsible for those animals in their care. Their first job. At best they made a frightful error of judgement, at worst, they couldn't be bothered.

The news, together with very illuminating photos, and the male owner's own words, tell a lot of the story.

The fact that all other kennels evacuated is very telling - the information was there, and others acted on it, why not these people? Additionally, why were they not at the kennels? Why did they return later with the CFS? Better to have unnecessarily evacuated, than done nothing, and pets burned. No one expects them to rush into the fire, but it is expected they would be pro-active, with the welfare of their charges foremost in their thoughts.

Why did they not encourage owners to retrieve their pets when they asked?

Poor judgement?

Just because you do not agree HW, does not mean there is a lack of compassion on the part of others. People are entitled to their opinions on this subject, even though they do not agree with yours.

I feel enormous compassion and sorrow for those poor helpless animals who perished and their bereft owners, who expected, and, indeed, deserved more from those to whom they entrusted their pets.

OSS, and others, I don't think anyone is blasting all kennel owners - just discussing this particular case.

[Jed]

StephM

If the guy was fighting a fire elsewhere and the roads closed on him, I'm not sure what Labradore expects him to have done?

The $1000 question was - why was he fighting a fire elsewhere, and not at home, keeping an eye on his own business?

I haven't seen any news report which suggested the the owners were overseas, or that the man was elsewhere fighting fires, but I am not in SA.

[teekay]

Yes I know myself and others that dare to question what he was doing out fighting fires away from his property when he should have been helping protect the pets entrusted in his care are being crucified, as apparently being a firefighter volunteer absolves you from any other responsibility. I am following up on this line of inquiry as well.

Can we have rolly eye man back yet?

I don't even know where to start on this BS.

I am unclear about which bit you think is bullshit Steph. Do people think it appropriate he had, apparently, left the property to fight the fires leaving his 16 year old daughter in charge? Imo he should never have left his daughter, regardless of the animals. This info may not be correct, I am just commenting on what's been said here.

More that this person is "following up on lines of enquiry" and griding that axe real hard.

If the guy was fighting a fire elsewhere and the roads closed on him, I'm not sure what Labradore expects him to have done?

I highly doubt half of what has been said here and on facebook is fact, and it bugs me its being taken as gospel and speculated on as such.

Its like vultures picking over disaster, who benefits if fault is found with the owners? People are gung ho finding things to pick at and frankly its a terrible loss for everyone, I'd like to leave it be and let it work itself out. The Facebook jury does more harm than good.

I'm sure there will be an investigation by proper means in due course.

All the speculation is doing in the mean time is making life miserable for kennel owners, pet owners and making it harder for them all to get back on their feet when its all done.

I feel for everyone but most of all the pets, those who didn't make it and those who did. Just awful, I'd rather spend my energy wishing peace to those who didnt make it out and a speedy recovery to those who did.

Ok, I get what you mean now but with regard to him "fighting fires elsewhere", imo he shouldn't have been, not if that meant leaving the animals and potentially his 16 year old daughter at risk. But I do appreciate this may not be the case, as you say, social media is not known for accurate facts.

ETA Snap Jed :)

Edited January 6, 2015 by teekay

[Loving my Oldies]

Their job was to be responsible for those animals in their care. Their first job. At best they made a frightful error of judgement, at worst, they couldn't be bothered.

The news, together with very illuminating photos, and the male owner's own words, tell a lot of the story.

The fact that all other kennels evacuated is very telling - the information was there, and others acted on it, why not these people? Additionally, why were they not at the kennels? Why did they return later with the CFS? Better to have unnecessarily evacuated, than done nothing, and pets burned. No one expects them to rush into the fire, but it is expected they would be pro-active, with the welfare of their charges foremost in their thoughts.

Why did they not encourage owners to retrieve their pets when they asked?

Poor judgement?

Just because you do not agree HW, does not mean there is a lack of compassion on the part of others. People are entitled to their opinions on this subject, even though they do not agree with yours.

I feel enormous compassion and sorrow for those poor helpless animals who perished and their bereft owners, who expected, and, indeed, deserved more from those to whom they entrusted their pets.

OSS, and others, I don't think anyone is blasting all kennel owners - just discussing this particular case.

As usual, the calm voice of reason and compassion.

[Rebanne]

If I had left my pets at that BK I would expect that the people responsible for them would have stayed at the kennels instead of going off to fight fires elsewhere. Their first responsibility was to the animals they were paid to take care of, nothing else. If they truly thought there was nothing they could do to save the boarders and they had to leave to save their own lives, so be it. I would be totally distraught at my pets dieing this way but I also wouldn't want people to die trying to save my pets. However, it appears, from various sources, that a bit of a cavalier attitude was taken to the boarding animals and that I would never forgive.

Alphabets post was excellent but I can't help but point out that they stayed and defended, this other mob didn't seem to think that was important.

[HazyWal]

I read a heart breaking post from one of the owners of a dog that died, not a second hand story but the actual devastated owner. They called to see if they could come and pick up their dog and were told no, they watched for a few more hours and decided to drive up anyway but were met with a road block. It was too late their beloved boy had perished. Is he angry? damn straight. Does he hold them responsible? yes he does. He raised many of the points Jed just did in her post. I wonder if those saying more compassion should be shown to the kennel owner could stand in front of this man and say those words? A man consumed with grief. I sure as hell couldn't.

[Steph M]

But the point is we can not guarantee what happened, we don't know yet. Everything is pieced together and a story cobbled together.

I absolutely understand people affected would be mad, I would be too I am sure. Doesn't give me the right to comment as an external party who doesn't know what happened.

Also it might be a little generous to remember these guys lost their home as well, would you say the same of general homeowners?

That they should have done more? Would you assail them with such suggestions on how they could have avoided their loss? No, because it is heartless.

I am not suggesting people not ask questions, but not taking facebook as gospel and a little sensitivity would not go astray.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Steph M

[labadore]

Yes I know myself and others that dare to question what he was doing out fighting fires away from his property when he should have been helping protect the pets entrusted in his care are being crucified, as apparently being a firefighter volunteer absolves you from any other responsibility. I am following up on this line of inquiry as well.

Can we have rolly eye man back yet?

I don't even know where to start on this BS.

I am unclear about which bit you think is bullshit Steph. Do people think it appropriate he had, apparently, left the property to fight the fires leaving his 16 year old daughter in charge? Imo he should never have left his daughter, regardless of the animals. This info may not be correct, I am just commenting on what's been said here.

More that this person is "following up on lines of enquiry" and griding that axe real hard.

If the guy was fighting a fire elsewhere and the roads closed on him, I'm not sure what Labradore expects him to have done?

I highly doubt half of what has been said here and on facebook is fact, and it bugs me its being taken as gospel and speculated on as such.

Its like vultures picking over disaster, who benefits if fault is found with the owners? People are gung ho finding things to pick at and frankly its a terrible loss for everyone, I'd like to leave it be and let it work itself out. The Facebook jury does more harm than good.

I'm sure there will be an investigation by proper means in due course.

All the speculation is doing in the mean time is making life miserable for kennel owners, pet owners and making it harder for them all to get back on their feet when its all done.

I feel for everyone but most of all the pets, those who didn't make it and those who did. Just awful, I'd rather spend my energy wishing peace to those who didnt make it out and a speedy recovery to those who did.

My "line of inquiry" is to further investigate a volunteer firefighter's options/obligations available when it comes to that firefighter owning a business in a high fire risk area where the business is a boarding kennel full to capacity with pets over the busiest period of the year. Throw in the reports that his wife was also away on holidays (as I mentioned previously, this was posted on Facebook by the owners' BIL's cousin who was defending them on Facebook, I read his post), so who is the responsible adult left in charge, their 16 year old daughter? (once again this was posted on Facebook) and does the firefighter have a choice on whether he goes off firefighting. From my information, based on our business here in Sydney having a volunteer firefighter employee who reported directly to me, they have a choice as he would always ask if he could have time off to do his firefighting duties and we would organise other staff to cover his absences and each time he asked, he advised that if we could not cover his absence, he would not go. He has been involved in firefighting activities both full-time and as a volunteer for many years, and never expected that we would give him the time-off each time, but we did as we all worked as a team to cover his absence in his critical role in the business. Not sure what happens in SA and what position he held, hence my "line of inquiry".

All this aside, he owned a pet boarding business and as a duty of care, his first/priority obligation should be to protect the pets entrusted in his care by their owners.

It is unbelievably ignorant to say "leave it be and let it work itself out" (your words), this is the era of social media and of course there will always be speculation good and bad when tragedy occurs, it is the nature of the beast.

Boarding kennels need to be held accountable for their action/inaction that results in any pet deaths, particularly mass deaths as in this case and there needs to be an investigation into what transpired here, that point we both agree on. In the meantime, just because we have differing views, does not mean that I cannot have my say, just as you can have yours.