Dogsfevr Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I just love reading the comments from experts on how simple it should be to evacuate & that i would own this & that . Wouldn't it be wonderful if it was so simple & obvious when comments come from people who have no idea . If evacs where so simple we would never have any loss of anything . I have helped at evacs & offered to help at evacs for kennel owners who where well planned BUT what the fire does & what the authorities allow to happen is to very different things .Offers to help doesn't mean you can help . When the water bombers have been used we aren't allowed to help we have to stay out & hope like hell will be good Easy to sit back & bee an expert but dealing with it in real life is another thing . Lets be real many pet owners with one animal get even get organized or prepared & live in high risk areas . Fire plans are wonderful when all the stars align , We are high fire risk today & own boarding kennels ,we have a plan BUT like everything our plan is only as good as what mother nature hands out ,we have trailers & cars ready,we have many people who would assist IF they can & without risking there own lives . TV programmes are no more worse than some of the tactless things people post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
griff Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 just horrific the loss to not only the Boarding Kennel but to so many others . ,Fire can never been taken with an It'll be right mate" attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I saw this when I was using my ipad. The image was for the Kennels. I merely posted the link. I did not imply nor suggest donating as I had not even read the notes. If there were no replies here, I feel more that the link should be deleted. I happen to agree with the comments. VM I didn't think for one moment that you were suggesting donating to this unknown person. I know you only posted the link. I took it as a warning to watch out for unscrupulous people trying to cash in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I feel so terribly sorry for the pets lost and for the poor owners of those pets, particularly those who offered to come and take their own animal home the day before, and were told there was no danger. I would happily donate a puppy or a dog to someone who lost a dog in that fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) I just love reading the comments from experts on how simple it should be to evacuate & that i would own this & that . Wouldn't it be wonderful if it was so simple & obvious when comments come from people who have no idea . If evacs where so simple we would never have any loss of anything . I have helped at evacs & offered to help at evacs for kennel owners who where well planned BUT what the fire does & what the authorities allow to happen is to very different things .Offers to help doesn't mean you can help . When the water bombers have been used we aren't allowed to help we have to stay out & hope like hell will be good Easy to sit back & bee an expert but dealing with it in real life is another thing . Lets be real many pet owners with one animal get even get organized or prepared & live in high risk areas . Fire plans are wonderful when all the stars align , We are high fire risk today & own boarding kennels ,we have a plan BUT like everything our plan is only as good as what mother nature hands out ,we have trailers & cars ready,we have many people who would assist IF they can & without risking there own lives . TV programmes are no more worse than some of the tactless things people post Oh don't be so absurd. No one on here is claiming to be an expert and no one has suggested evacuating a large number of animals is simple but clearly it can be done or the other boarding kennel would not have been able to evacuate all their animals on the previous day before it was dangerously urgent. The boarding kennel whose animals perished in the fire received an offer to help take the animals to safety on the previous day when the road was not closed and evacuating the animals was not dangerous. They refused the offer and we all know the result. Are there really uncontrolled bush fires in your area today or are you being melodramatic? If you've been advised that you're in high fire risk today due to fires in your area what are you waiting for? Why are you leaving the evacuation of the animals in your care until the last minute and putting both the animals and the people who are willing to assist you in danger. Having a plan means getting the animals out before the danger is imminent, not taking risks and waiting until the last minute. A plan is only as good as those who are willing to action that plan. Mother Nature is not to blame for those who don't take timely action just because evacuating a number of animals isn't simple. efs Edited January 5, 2015 by cavNrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipsqueak Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I just love reading the comments from experts on how simple it should be to evacuate & that i would own this & that . Wouldn't it be wonderful if it was so simple & obvious when comments come from people who have no idea . If evacs where so simple we would never have any loss of anything . I have helped at evacs & offered to help at evacs for kennel owners who where well planned BUT what the fire does & what the authorities allow to happen is to very different things .Offers to help doesn't mean you can help . When the water bombers have been used we aren't allowed to help we have to stay out & hope like hell will be good Easy to sit back & bee an expert but dealing with it in real life is another thing . Lets be real many pet owners with one animal get even get organized or prepared & live in high risk areas . Fire plans are wonderful when all the stars align , We are high fire risk today & own boarding kennels ,we have a plan BUT like everything our plan is only as good as what mother nature hands out ,we have trailers & cars ready,we have many people who would assist IF they can & without risking there own lives . TV programmes are no more worse than some of the tactless things people post Oh don't be so absurd. No one on here is claiming to be an expert and no one has suggested evacuating a large number of animals is simple but clearly it can be done or the other boarding kennel would not have been able to evacuate all their animals on the previous day before it was dangerously urgent. The boarding kennel whose animals perished in the fire received an offer to help take the animals to safety on the previous day when the road was not closed and evacuating the animals was not dangerous. They refused the offer and we all know the result. Are there really uncontrolled bush fires in your area today or are you being melodramatic? If you've been advised that you're in high fire risk today due to fires in your area what are you waiting for? Why are you leaving the evacuation of the animals in your care until the last minute and putting both the animals and the people who are willing to assist you in danger. Having a plan means getting the animals out before the danger is imminent, not taking risks and waiting until the last minute. A plan is only as good as those who are willing to action that plan. Mother Nature is not to blame for those who don't take timely action just because evacuating a number of animals isn't simple. efs High fire risk in an area does not necessarily mean that there are active fires. It means that the conditions are such that there is a greater risk of fires starting, and people should be an alert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) According to the Vic CFA site 'High risk' is one of the lower categories. Most of Victoria was 'extreme risk' on Saturday. Code red and you start peeing your pants.... Edited January 5, 2015 by JulesP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labadore Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 From what I understand the kennel owner is a CFS volunteer and was out fighng fires. The RSPCA was meant to come and evacuate the kennel but the roads were closed due to fire and no one was allowed in to the area.. Owners believed the animals were safe butt then wind changed direction. Owners own aniamls died in the fire. Owner was not allowed back in to get to the anaimls either. I just hope the aniamls were dead before the flames reached them. Really where it did it say that? As a kennel owner full of pets over the busiest time of the year, I would have thought that his duty of care was to protect the pets entrusted in his care. I did see an interview with him on one of the tv channel news programmes over the weekend and he said "we (as in kennel owners) didn't do enough to protect the pets" , which is essentially what many on facebook and forums are saying and quite frankly I was quite dismayed and angered by this admission. It doesn't seem to appear that they took their duty of care to those poor pets entrusted in their care seriously enough. Surely to god, living in a fire prone area, during the busiest time of the year for a kennel, would make you extremely cautious about fires and how unpredictable they can be, coupled with the fact that you are a CSF volunteer, you should know better and it should make you even more cautious, so why would you take a chance and risk the lives of these pets entrusted in your care and hold off evacuating until it was too late. Add to this, you are being advised/witnessing other animals around you being evacuated and offered assistance to help you evacuate whilst it was safe to do so and you advised concerned pet owners the day before not to come and pick up their pets when it was still safe to do so (they actually posted this on their Facebook page as I have been reading it since I became aware of the tragedy ). Looks like their Facebook page has been taken down as just went to check it again this morning and it is no longer there! All in all with so many wrong decisions made by the kennel owner, it seems to be gross negligence on their part and whilst I don't agree with posting abusive messages on their Facebook page, I can understand the anger directed at them over this, as pets entrusted in their care dying in horrific circumstances that could have been prevented if they acted/heeded warnings early enough, is an extremely emotive subject. . It still fails to amaze me year after year that people and businesses fail to heed the numerous warnings via television, internet, txt etc of the catostrophic nature and unpredictability of bush fires and leave it till it is too late to evacuate . It is bad enough people putting their own lives in danger by not evacuating when it is safe to do so, but for a business entrusted with the care of many beloved pets during their busiest time of the year, it is gross negligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pjrt Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 According to the Vic CFA site 'High risk' is one of the lower categories. Most of Victoria was 'extreme risk' on Saturday. Code red and you start peeing your pants.... The area the kennels were in were in an area under 'catastrophic' warning on that day. I don't want to be an arm chair critic just stating a fact. I have NFI what I would have done under the same conditions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 According to the Vic CFA site 'High risk' is one of the lower categories. Most of Victoria was 'extreme risk' on Saturday. Code red and you start peeing your pants.... The area the kennels were in were in an area under 'catastrophic' warning on that day. I don't want to be an arm chair critic just stating a fact. I have NFI what I would have done under the same conditions I wasn't talking about the kennel. I was responding to the Pipsqueak, CavNRott and Showdog conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pjrt Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 (edited) According to the Vic CFA site 'High risk' is one of the lower categories. Most of Victoria was 'extreme risk' on Saturday. Code red and you start peeing your pants.... The area the kennels were in were in an area under 'catastrophic' warning on that day. I don't want to be an arm chair critic just stating a fact. I have NFI what I would have done under the same conditions I wasn't talking about the kennel. I was responding to the Pipsqueak, CavNRott and Showdog conversation. yeah i was just using the fact that the kennel was in a 'catastrophic' warning area that day, maybe they should have peed their pants Edited January 5, 2015 by GrufLife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Are there really uncontrolled bush fires in your area today or are you being melodramatic? If you've been advised that you're in high fire risk today due to fires in your area what are you waiting for? Why are you leaving the evacuation of the animals in your care until the last minute and putting both the animals and the people who are willing to assist you in danger. Well i guess if 41 temps & living opposite bush on a fire risk day is melodramatic for you then so be it ,we are prepared if required & i guess thats also a over kill for you ,like i say keyboard warriors at there finest Im happy to be called melodramatic in this case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YippeeGirl Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I was up in Kinglake on the day of the Black Saturday fires, and saw first-hand how fast and unpredictable bushfires can get on those extreme fire days. Personally if I was the business owner I probably would have been evacuating animals when I could, even if it turned out to be a false alarm. All it takes is one wind change and that fire can be coming straight for you. It is easy to sit and judge, but the animals that perished were entrusted in the care of the kennels. I know even the best laid plans can be waylaid when you are dealing with the capricious nature of bushfires, but people are going to be upset when all those animals were essentially left to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I was up in Kinglake on the day of the Black Saturday fires, and saw first-hand how fast and unpredictable bushfires can get on those extreme fire days. Personally if I was the business owner I probably would have been evacuating animals when I could, even if it turned out to be a false alarm. All it takes is one wind change and that fire can be coming straight for you. It is easy to sit and judge, but the animals that perished were entrusted in the care of the kennels. I know even the best laid plans can be waylaid when you are dealing with the capricious nature of bushfires, but people are going to be upset when all those animals were essentially left to die. Yep, a wind change wiped out Marysville Same wind change stopped another fire from heading in my direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YippeeGirl Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Yes that was just one of the most terrible days imaginable. I was already petrified of house fires as a child, and knowing people were literally dying only a few doors down from my grandparents' farm has only made it worse. My heart really goes out to the owners of those cats and dogs, and anyone else who has lost pets in similar circumstances. I just can't even begin to imagine how they must be hurting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Of course the owner of the kennels is going to feel and say they didn't do enough, Pets died. Peoples babies died. No-one has kennels unless they care about animals, they will forever feel they didn't do enough. They are going to be haunted by this forvever, the owners will be haunted by this for ever. To lose a pet is bad enough, to lose one in this way is completely horrifying. As a pet owner I too would be at least thinking, why were they not out? could more have been done? But I also know that moving that volume of animals is not an easy task. I know that bush fires are unpredictable, terrifying and can move extremely quickly. Hindsight is 20/20 it is easy to sit back and cricufy them now isn't it. I cnanot believe for one minute that an owner of a boarding kennel and animal lover would deliberately put the animals in there care in deliberate danger. It is possible they didn't do enough, I am not saying it isn't BUT I also think it is very easy for people to say who were not there. Therefore I will not pass judgement. Last year there was a very large fire 30kms from me. On that day it was over 40 and the winds were around 100kms/hr. Potentially that fire could have reached my place in 18minutes. Not once did I think I need ot get these dogs out. Was I on high alert? yes as we ended up with 3 fires. I was helping a friend with a cat rescue get crates etc to get hers out. Did I think I needed to evacuate? nope I didn't. but 18 minutes and that could have been me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 As I posted in the thread in OT. I was only talking to a friend this morning about when her parents evacuated their boarding kennels in fires in NSW many years ago. It was holiday time and the kennel was full, they were not in a danger zone at the time and were told only to "prepare" for evacuation but they decided not to take the risk and get all animals out. Emergency contacts for boarding pets were contacted and when people came to pick up dogs and cats quite a few people took other peoples pets as well just to get them out and to safety. Whoever were left were loaded into family and friends cars and driven to safety zones that were set up. In the end the fire came no where near them but people were so grateful that they acted immediately to be 100% sure. Yes random people took others pets but they were out and that's all that mattered at the time. I for one would rather be looking for whoever had my greyhounds than knowing they had died in that horrific way. I worked at this boarding kennel for 5 years, two years as live in manager and as the owner always said "if in doubt GET THEM OUT!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Are there really uncontrolled bush fires in your area today or are you being melodramatic? If you've been advised that you're in high fire risk today due to fires in your area what are you waiting for? Why are you leaving the evacuation of the animals in your care until the last minute and putting both the animals and the people who are willing to assist you in danger Showdog: Well i guess if 41 temps & living opposite bush on a fire risk day is melodramatic for you then so be it ,we are prepared if required & i guess thats also a over kill for you ,like i say keyboard warriors at there finest Im happy to be called melodramatic in this case Well as there are no fires around your area that certainly changes any immediate urgency to evacuate the animals in your care, doesn't it? I suggested you should be prepared to evacuate immediately IF there are fires in your area and you're trying to twist it around to mean something totally different. It appears you don't understand what was said. Your original post was mainly about defending the boarding kennel owners for their lack of action in failing to evacuate their animals when there were huge fires in their area...and about criticising people whose opinion differs to yours. Nothing new there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 In my case I am a tad terrified of fire so mine would be out. I collect crates and have horse floats and trailers to remove animals in one go. But I think it is hard to pass judgment when you were not there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 But I think it is hard to pass judgment when you were not there. Yes, and we've had a post from someone who was there and she said it was completely unexpected for the fire to get from where it started to almost the suburban fringe overnight. It didn't seem to have even gone through a lot of the area in between, just popped up in weird places. I am super paranoid about fire and went to bed the night before fully expecting to meet someone for breakfast up in that same township. Obviously they should have been more cautious in hindsight, but hindsight is the easy part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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