Toilet Confusion!

[B-I-N-G-O]

Hi everyone,

I prided myself on being the dog whisperer with my older dog, and getting all that puppy stuff sorted easily, but this time it is not so easy!

I now have a nine week old fox terrier. His favourite place to wee is under the dining room table. Getting him to wee outside - taking him out after food or drink (complete fail!), praising him if we catch him at it (rare) - has not been very successful at all. And now I feel like we are completely losing! This morning I was outside with both dogs with the door shut, and the puppy started scratching at the door to go inside (not unusual, seems to think it is more interesting even when there is no one there!) and when I opened it, he went straight to the dining table and peed.... Feels like absolute proof that what we are doing is not working.

We're thinking we should block off the dining area - quite a challenge as it's open plan! - as step one of breaking this cycle. But we're not sure on what step two should be. He seems utterly oblivious.

[The Spotted Devil]

Very briefly....make sure you clean the area with Urine Off, block access by popping him in a play pen indoors when you can't 100% supervise and continue to take him outside very regularly and reward for toileting in the correct spot. With pups that are having troubles use their daily food ration - I will feed a big handful at a time to reward the correct behaviour and they soon work it out!

Edited December 29, 2014 by The Spotted Devil

[sheena]

Crate him when he can't be watched & get rid of the smell under the table that keeps attracting him :) Crating or puppy pen is the quickest way to toilet train. IMO

[Dogsfevr]

Get a puppy pen .

How have you been teaching puppy to go outside to toilet ,does puppy have door access or do you need to let puppy out?

Do you carry puppy out or get puppy excited about going out to the toilet?

How long do you wait outside for puppy to go & if pup doesn't go how long before being inside does puppy go ?

Is the other dog outside when puppy is on wee duty & does the pup just want to play or then get distracted .

Is puppy from a breeder & where was it raised and how did they toilet train ?

[RuralPug]

Yes, as every one has said - do NOT give him the chance to get it wrong and use an good enzyme cleaner to break down every last molecule of any inside mistakes. If you catch him in the act inside just whisk him outside (trail of pee and all) to where you want him to toilet. Don't growl or fuss, just clean it up the mistake thoroughly.

If you don't have a puppy pen or a crate then draw up a roster - he is to be tethered to a family member whenever he is inside and not sleeping. That family member is responsible for noticing any pre-toileting behaviour (sniffing the floor, circling etc.) and must immediately take him outside to the preferred toileting spot and WAIT there until he pees or poos. Yes it might be 20 minutes or half an hour at first, take a book! As soon as he toilets in the correct spot IMMEDIATELY with and great verve tell him how wonderful he is and reward him with yummy treats or a toy or a game - really over the top is best so that he is bursting with pride at his own cleverness at toileting outside.

And don't forget to have a rolled up newspaper handy - this is to bop the rostered tether person with if the pup is allowed to make a mistake inside!

Trust me, an indoor crate is much much easier than tethering! But the same theory applies - take the pup outside very frequently after waking, eating and playing and stay with him until he has toileted so that he can be immediately rewarded.

At nine weeks he is still a baby and his bladder won't last long. But it should only take a few weeks at most of this constant vigilance and over-the-top rewarding before he figures it out!

[B-I-N-G-O]

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the advice. I will get a good enzyme cleaner; I have been cleaning with normal cleaners only. I've barricaded the dining area (quite a complex endeavour!) and so far... Touch wood... He hasn't gone near there, nor has he peed indoors at all. Mind you, I don't think that is him being clever so much as us just trying to keep him outside for as much as we could manage today! - I took to the backyard with a comfortable chair and a good book. I did succeed in catching him doing the deed once, but mostly I have to think he did it without my help (you have to be quick to spot him!).

We leave the back door open as much as is possible; he doesn't have to wait to go outside.

Yes, I got him from a breeder, but I don't know what she did with toilet training.

He does have an indoor crate. Unlike my older dog - who walked into the crate and claimed it as her own on the day we brought her home - my puppy has shown no sign of taking very kindly to the crate. He has gone in there voluntarily once!

Mostly I carry the puppy out if I think he wants to pee, cause he's not so fond of outside! Although today may have improved that - the older dog hadn't taken to him too kindly before today - nothing "bad", she mostly just ignores him (and has been very quiet) - but today they ran around together a lot and my older dog was back to being her active happy self.

Right now I'm sitting outside waiting :) someone had a big drink half an hour ago and there's no way he's going in that crate without some action first :)

[persephone]

:) make outside a GOOD place :) special toys and bones etc ......same with the crate! Something chewy or cuddly or delicious .....

Edited December 29, 2014 by persephone

[Christina]

Not unusual for such a young puppy that you have only just got. A little more time & patience & he will learn.

[B-I-N-G-O]

:) make outside a GOOD place :) special toys and bones etc ......same with the crate! Something chewy or cuddly or delicious .....

Thanks, right now he has me with treats in pocket (not to mention the iPad and a book!) :) the other dog, lots of cool toys, a very diggable sandpit, lots of sunshine and some interesting garden corners to explore. Sadly though his main focus is chewing the legs of the outdoor furniture. It's full on right now, but I keep reminding myself that 12months from now this will be a distant memory, and I will have a well-behaved dog!

[The Spotted Devil]

You can also set up a few compost panels where you want pup to toilet to create a play pen - minimise distractions for a busy pup.

[tikira]

Hi Bingo and welcome to DOL

Toilet training can be very frustrating, particularly when the previous one was a dream. My first Jack Russell was fairly good, my border Collie female was a dream, she followed Tip, and went when he did....yay!.

Jingo was a nightmare! We knew what to do do and how, etc, we set up playpens and crates, blocked favourite indoor spots.... we did it all and it still took months to trust him completely.

He was and is tiny, so we had your problem, we had no idea when he was going, he did not seem to squat at all, so we rewarded when we saw him go, and made outside a fun place. He did learn, I think the big breakthrough came when he started to pee for longer amounts of time, so we could catch him in the act.

What also helped us was spraying water with a lot of vinegar over all the inside surfaces he had access to, carpet, wood, lino etc, a couple of times a day. He seemed to avoid actually sniffing the spot, and thus found somewhere without vinegar water to pee- that was only outside for several weeks!

It is a hard time, and a hard job with a determined puppy sometimes, but try not to get too frustrated, there will be times you simply seete, or cry, or want to scream, but it will all fall into place, and I agree that things may start to get better now that your older dog is playing with him. Dogs are vulnerable when toileting, so maybe he did not want to go where the other one had scent marked?

Good luck, and by the way..... can we please see some photo's of the offender and his sibling???? Keep us updated as to your journey, as it will help the next person having the same problem.

Di

[Dogsfevr]

You need to stop carrying pup unless you feel its an ASAP moment.you need to make many trips to the access door & make that fun ,then o outside & use your key word for toileting ,when pup looks bored ,you need to get excited ,lets go toilet """" good puppy toilet & walk around making it fun ,if pup is sniffing then be calm .You need to make the going out the access door to the toilet area an adventure & a fun place .

If pup doesn't go come back inside & then go straight outside again ,at present the routine for pup is do nothing outside but inside you toilet .

All my pups are trained to toilet on lead at this age so we will just place pup onlead & make it a full training fun time .

Also keep in mind the older dog may be intimidating your pup & it feels secure inside & is peeing there instead .Pup needs to have backyard time on its own & older dog pup time out .

[Rebanne]

We leave the back door open as much as is possible; he doesn't have to wait to go outside.

He won't take himself outside to toilet until he knows that's what he is supposed to do. So you still have to teach him.