Seren Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 This one is frustrating me as I have never had a pup so hard to feed. Harry is 20 weeks old and has always been slow to eat but when he was teething he got into the habit of not trying to eat unless I tempted him. I've had him to the Vet and he told me Harry is healthy but lean. He suggested trying him on a few different foods but that seems to have made him even more picky. He has also been changed off red meat to see if it will settle his itch. This morning I had a 'win' - he ate half a cup of the new dog biscuits (Holistic Anchovy and Sardine mixed with the Royal Canin that he is coming off), but tonight nope wouldn't even try it. I managed to get him to eat about half a cup of chicken mince then he ran off and wouldn't come back. Even when he was eating beef he would eat about half a cup of it then clamp his lips shut and roll over. I have tried leaving the food for 10 minutes then removing it, but he just walks off and will go for over a day without eating unless I put some in my hand or toss it in front of him to get his attention. He doesn't get food rewards during the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliwake Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Sounds tricky maybe try some probiotics in case there's an underlying tummy upset? How often is he fed? My boy was still on 3 meals a day at that age. Smaller meals more often might help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pjrt Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Are you able to have another mild mannered dog around when you offer your puppy his normal meal? It can be quite a trigger for disinterested eaters, having a little competition in the mix. Also can you be certain your puppy's senses are 100% eyesight, hearing, smell etc. I would also want to be certain there are no underlying issues with structure and movement. Not to discredit vets, but they seem to have some trouble with things that are subtle like slight misalignment of neck or pelvis etc. These things can potentially have a big impact on a dogs physical and mental health. Are there any DOLers local to the OP that could recommend a canine chiro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seren Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share Posted December 15, 2014 Thanks aliwake, yes, I am at home most of the day so he gets offered food 3 times a day and if he won't eat at 6 in the morning I keep trying as the morning goes on, but he sees the dish and ducks under the stairs where I can't get to him. I will try the probiotics but.. Gruflife he has a 20 month old mate, Holly who is absolutely wonderful with him. But he just stands and watches her gobble her food and when she tries for his as well and he just lets her butt in on his dish. I have tried making him jealous but he just gazes at me and Holly as if it isn't about him... He can see the things we throw for him, he can answer to his name when it suits him, and he smells all around the woodheap for mice and seems normal like that. Also he is intelligent not dopey - he will hunt out toys in a game of hide and seek the toy which makes him think. He plays well with Holly and any other dog we have visit and is happy to trot along on the lead and looks around him with interest on walks.... He is a dream child in every way except eating.. it is a nightmare. Other than that he is the best behaved pup I have ever owned. He has a beautifully balanced walk/trot/run compared to our other Golden, but I am going to google for a chiro round here and take him anyway because I know with my horses it was easy to miss something that a chiro could pick up easily. That is worth while for sure, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaCC Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Seren, I had a similar problem with my pup. He wouldn't want to eat unless I sat there and made him, after trying the, 10 minutes and take it away thing, he once refused to eat for over 2 days, being a baby puppy he lost weight in just that time so I gave in and mixed something delicious in like yogurt. He had always eaten turkey necks and bones fine, it was just dry. It took a while to figure out that certain food weren't agreeing with him. He was getting upset stomachs from chicken, he would have runny poops every so often and would get "hungry vomits" in the middle of the nights. He would only not vomit if I gave him a tiny bit of food before bed. When I finally switched to a food without chicken, he started eating with gusto! The runny poops and the night vomits stopped completely. I wish I had figured it out earlier. He also had itchy paws that completely stopped once I put him on a grain free diet too. I feed a mixture of dry and raw meaty bones and was tempted to go completely raw, but 1: I didn't want to muck up his growth if I got the feeding wrong, and 2: I have contact allergies with some raw meats and didn't want to have to handle them if I ran out of gloves or something. Anyway point being, is I wouldn't rule out a slight food intolerance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seren Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share Posted December 15, 2014 Thanks LisaCC, Feeling tired and defeated this morning because soon the battle will start again trying to make him eat something. He looked up at me from his bed just now and wagged his tail then rolled over in submissive manner - is that what we have come to? I have tried dropping chicken, just offering the fish based food. I have tried yoghurt and so many things to see if I can get him interested in eating. I wish I had started writing down what I have tried to see if there is a pattern. He did have unformed bowel motions when he was on chicken alone but when I added biscuits he was okay. The herbal nutitionist I have consulted over his itchiness (on his back and in his armpits) has suggested a no red-meat diet. I will ring her this morning and ask about lamb. I was going to offer bones today in the hope he will eat something off them, but the Vet said that he shouldn't be given bones more than 3 times a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliwake Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 If he'll eat bones I'd be giving them to him every day! The worst that will happen is he'll have rock hard poo and really clean teeth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Try to not get so wound up - THIS alone, will be affecting pup, who now has a bad vibe from food /feeding time wherever he is relaxed ..be it outside , or in a room ... leave him with a couple of different MEATY bones ,some vegemite toast, some grated cheese , and a bowl full of the kibble . do NOT hover , or babytalk, or try & keep him close to you to eat. Do not even LOOK at him ..just carry on about your daily routine ..and see what happens over the next hour or two keep your other dog crated or tied ....but still in sight of pup. poor pup - he now sees feeding time as torture .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandra777 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Agree with Persephone, sounds like half his problem is he's picking up your anxiety. Have you tried nutrigel? Great appetite stimulant and totally non-stressful to smear a tiny amount on a toy for him to lick off. What happens if you try using training treats? Will he take them? Easy enough to use pieces of cheese or cooked meat even if you are doing nothing more than rewarding him for looking cute.. have you tried feeding him somewhere totally different...I'm thinking *really * different like in the car in the carpark of the local dog park. Ok not a long term solution but you need to break the cycle of not eating so some times this needs way outside the square answers lol Yes it is a shame your vet didn't get you to start a food diary when this all started - but start one now and see what shows up.. Basic advice would be offer one sort of food for each meal and RELAX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seren Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share Posted December 15, 2014 (edited) Thanks so much everyone for your support and ideas and not the least your encouragement to Relax with him and enjoy. I left him with an assortment of things as you said persephone and I decided to put him out in the run that he likes to play in (large outdoor run with play things in it that they go in at will to play in during the day). But he curled up and slept the whole time. Holly was sitting outside 'talking' to him and he growled at her. It was no where near the food so he wasn't protecting his food - showed no interest in it at all. I gave him a new toy as well (I will get some Nutrigel today - I could have smeared some onto it).. but he just mouthed it and then used it for a pillow. Holly destuffed hers as usual but he did nothing to his. Hubby went in and was nursing him and we looked in his mouth and his gums are pale, well paler than Holly's. So I have made an appointment with the head Vet (I have to wait until he finishes surgery). I think I need to rule out if he is sick or not. He had a few licks of water but I thought I should add some raw honey to the water.. I don't know anymore. Bring on 11.30... and hope that Rob doesn't have a bank up of surgery this morning. I the meantime I am writing down everything I have fed him since I got him for as far as I can remember.. most of the things Holly is now enjoying so I still have the packets etc here... Edited December 15, 2014 by Seren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Ok - get the vet to do bloods& urine tests ... this time . - if he's anaemic it could be from all sorts of things , and it seems now a matter of urgency to have him thoroughly checked .It would be good to have an answer - a relief for you. pale may be his colour .. but the vet will test . Oh - have you spoken with his breeder at all ? has pup had a heartworm injection or anything ? best of luck . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliwake Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Such a worry Seren! Hopefully the head vet is a bit more thorough - something doesn't sound right! I'm thinking of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 ..and until you get blood test results /diagnosis ... perhaps leave off consulting the herbal nutritionist ..... is he on any herbal medication/supplements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seren Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 Thanks again you are all so good to me! I actually managed all his food diet pretty well down pat and have his weight each week/fortnight as he has grown.. I could pretty much align the food fed with his age even.. and also how he ate well when I first got him then teething and onset of eating problems... Persephone, he has been Milbemax Heartwormed all on the right ages and all documented I rang the herbalist and she gave me the list of ingredients but he only had 2 doses (Friday night and Saturday morning then I stopped it) she used to be a Vet Nurse and her hubby is a Vet - she said get him checked out too The darn breeder hasn't answered my calls or emails... and I haven't been sent his CCC papers (limited reg) I have just jotted down all that you suggest the Vet check and do - bloods/urine etc... I love this little guy... thanks so much everyone again... I am off to town now with Harry and will get back to you when I return.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravenau1 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Agree with Persephone, sounds like half his problem is he's picking up your anxiety. Have you tried nutrigel? Great appetite stimulant and totally non-stressful to smear a tiny amount on a toy for him to lick off. What happens if you try using training treats? Will he take them? Easy enough to use pieces of cheese or cooked meat even if you are doing nothing more than rewarding him for looking cute.. have you tried feeding him somewhere totally different...I'm thinking *really * different like in the car in the carpark of the local dog park. Ok not a long term solution but you need to break the cycle of not eating so some times this needs way outside the square answers lol Yes it is a shame your vet didn't get you to start a food diary when this all started - but start one now and see what shows up.. Basic advice would be offer one sort of food for each meal and RELAX. Definitely try this, it saved my sanity when my Dobe, Astrid was young. She was always a finicky eater, and all the usual tricks did not work and it was always a cause of stress here. She only really started eating well when we got our Aussie, Dragon. She wasn't unwell, just not that interested in food. We now have a 9 and a half week old Dobe puppy and she eats like crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seren Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 (edited) Well so now I know. I take Harry to the Vet with what I think is an eating problem and Rob says it is something completely different! When I walked Harry in Rob studied how he was walking and said "This pup is Lame!!" He went over him and found he is so tender in his right hip and down his leg, and he has swelling in his left hock. I thought back and yes - Holly rammed him on Friday when they were playing and Harry went and sat under the tree for a while. I feel like a totally bad mother! I thought he was walking like that because he was not eating, and he wasn't playing because he felt sick.. I got it wrong. Rob went through all the notes I wrote and went over Harry and said , He is lean but not thin by any means. He looked at how I had put his weight and age down and said he has been growing well and steadily and to stop worrying about him being picky - I will be glad of it as he gets older. He went over him a number of times and each time came back to the hip and leg. He gave him an injection for the pain and inflamation and tablets and will check him in a weeks time. If he's not happy then he is going to x-ray him. As he said with the breed it is better not to take chances. (Whole different thread there - he talked to me about Lace's hips as well. He didn't treat Lace or see her X-rays but he had heard about her.) If I am worried in the mean time I have to bring Harry in. He said his gums and inside his eyelids are fine, well pink and not a worry. He offered to do blood tests if I wanted but I thought maybe go with the leg injury. He said if he is in pain and a sook he probably won't eat. And he could see that when he was teething was the time he started becoming really finicky with his food - didn't like chewing on sore gums? I bought some lamb shanks on the way home. Harry gave the bag a good long sniff. Is it okay to feed lamb shanks to him?? Or are they too splintery?? Yeah I cannot get over that I have been up the wrong tree Edited December 16, 2014 by Seren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliwake Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 It must be a relief to know that something was wrong, even if it wasn't what you expected! The vet sounded lovely and thorough. Hopefully you're feeling better and can relax some more and let Harry eat when he feels like it. Maybe try giving him some frozen treats - the cold will feel nice if he's teething. I've heard some people suggest frozen bananas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seren Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 Just checking if it is okay to give raw lamb shanks?? Or are they too splintery?? Harry keeps smelling up at where I had put them on the bench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I prefer to feed lamb necks - Em demolishes them frozen :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Shanks are OK if you watch him ..and take them away once he has eaten all the meat :) they are hard and can splinter, yes. NON weight bearing bones are better - they don't splinter , and can be all nicely crunched up :) Try turkey wings/necks!! mine love them :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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