Bad Behaviour At My Brother's Place

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Hi all

I think I already know the answer to this one...

I hate leaving my dog at home but there are some major problems when I visit my brother's place - which we don't do often enough to train out the problems.

He has a large poodle x gr adolescent - which is extremely rude and badly behaved around my dog. He got it from a friend who got it for their "autistic" child without understanding that a dog needs training and a gr cross poodle is going to be enormous.

It's not the kind of dog he would have chosen otherwise.

So when we visit - it spends about the first 30 minutes trying to get my dog to play and she spends all that time herding him off with increasingly violent warnings. And eventually he gets the message and she herds him three laps around the yard until he collapses exhausted.

Except after that - she then hates every similar looking dog on sight and is pre-emptive rude to all of them at the park and the beach. She's only just stopped doing that in the last month.

So pretty sure if I take her to my brother's place again - I would be back to square one with poodle crosses at the park.

She's also not very nice to his cat. He said his cat could fend for itself and "let them sort it out" but the cat opted to run... while my dog was off lead instead of standing its ground like he said it would. So my brother was wrong - yet again. And my dog decided to top that night off by doing a dump inside the house, outside the door of the room where the cat had been stashed.

Not good. I had no idea that the doors to the bedrooms had been left open.

A long time ago - we would just leave our dogs and children to go play and sort themselves out but it seems these days - I'm expected to be super vigilant - prevent any problems but not actually spend any time training my dog to behave appropriately because "they can sort it out themselves" argh.

And its a family do - so the only way I'm going to be relaxed is to leave her here. I can't even leave her in her crate because I'm pretty sure his dog would pee on it with her inside.

So it's a dog training fail and a brother training fail.

And they're hosting Christmas too. Sigh. she's definitely staying home for that one.

[The Spotted Devil]

Crate with compost panels as a second barrier. Works really in my house to give Em space from the cats (who pinch her food) and Zig (who is just annoying) when she's in season.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

are compost panels a bit like play pen panels? they'd probably get peed on too tho I could try vicks vapour rub.

will have to google.

too late for today tho.

[The Spotted Devil]

Yes but cheap! Just hose them off later and spray with vinegar or Urine Off.

[The Spotted Devil]

Bunnings for panels or Vebo for a play pen.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

tah - I can't seem to get bunnings website to cough up any details which means I will probably have to go visit a store which sucks. I have nightmares about warehouse stores - never being able to find what I want.

[tdierikx]

May I ask why you HAVE to take your girl to your brother's place at all?

T.

[persephone]

Why not just leave her home?

non one really enjoys the visits, it seems , so why do it? Give her something special , like a huge ice cream container iceblock ... and go visit :)

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

tdierikx and persephone

Pretty much the answer I'd already come up with. And I did leave her home. And the evening was much more enjoyable except when my brother and I discussed dog training. We profoundly disagree on how to train a dog.

He is quite determined that every dog (and child) needs to know an "emergency NO" - the sort of "NO" you can yell to stop a dog in its tracks...

Except his current dog - he hasn't managed to train it. He says the dog knows to stop doing (fence running) when he yells "No" at it - but forgets and is back at it two seconds later.

Erm - you haven't trained it "No" or not to fence run.

And then I say I can't bring my dog (my brother's kids ask after her - she does tricks and fun things). I can't bring my dog because she ends up attacking all dogs that look like him...

He says if she knew the word "NO" - I could stop her from going after all these other dogs. Erm. If his dog knew the word "No" maybe he wouldn't pester her into pre-emptive strikes on other dogs (not to mention his dog).

I'm not winning. If my dog is not perfect in the face of relentless pestering by his dog... then I'm the one that can't train a dog? And he also doesn't see that he needs to change something because the dog he has - doesn't respond to old school training. ARGH.

And he says he'd never hit a dog - but the way he trained the previous dog "No" was to tie it to his ute - and when it saw something it wanted and went bolting after it - just before it hit the end of the rope (flat out) he'd yell "NO"... FFS it's a wonder his dog even survived that but it was an SBT.

[OSoSwift]

Just easier to leave the dog at home and when any attempt is made at going down the dog training discussiion, say I am not going to discuss this as we are on totally different pages, stand up, grab a drink and go talk to someone else. If you do it every time he will get the message.

I dont ake my dog/s anywhere unless specifically asked to or it is pre-organised and everyone is happy to have my dogs there. I have found crating doesn't work as there always has to be someone who thinks I am the evil dog mum for putting my dog in prison and they then have to sit there and feed it sausages or something!

My brother also thinks I am mean as my dogs are apparently not just allowed to be dogs as I expect them to stay on their bed until asked to get on a lounge etc - especially when we have visitors - and they will go off and toilet on command when asked, not that I only allow them to toilet when given a command as he would have anyone who listened, believe.

And don't get me started on the purebred versus cross bred "discussions" I have had prior to deciding not to engage.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Golden rule no. 1 - never leave dogs to sort it out with each other. Also, these are two different kinds of dogs so they have different play and behaviour styles, it probably will never work.

Leave your dog at home, it will be so much easier on everyone. If you must stay away over night then either board her or get a dog feeder/walker to come in.

I never let strange dogs mix with cats at all (unless both parties are bullet proof) - in spite of what owners will tell me - and I also let new adopters know how to introduce the two.

There's so much to it, before I got involved in rescue I really had no idea, I was just a normal dog owner. Now I'm in the position of helping others do things better when adopting from me or some of the rescue groups I support. Not everyone gets good advice when adopting new pets and this is where things go wrong.

Animals don't have to go everywhere with us - as much as we'd like it - it can lead to all sorts of stress and problems and you just need to work out what is best for all.

[Loving my Oldies]

Brothers, hey! I have one who knows everything to know about everything and believes his stories are worth hearing over and over again.

There are some subjects that simply can't be talked about with some people as hard as that may be. Obviously dog training is one of those with you and your brother, Mrs RB

Her Majesty DogMad's last paragraph says it all with regards to taking our dogs with us.

[Kavik]

I'd leave her at home!

Similar thing happened to me once when Kaos was young. Took her to OH's family holiday house, and only found out when we got there that another person had brought their dog as well (interestingly, also a GR x Poodle). Their dog and Kaos didn't get along, they kept saying they will sort it out and because Kaos was a bit younger they thought that he would be the 'submissive' one - erm, no he won't! He won't tolerate that sort of behaviour. I was open to swapping when the dogs were out etc so they could both have a run and be safe at other times, but they seemed to have no concept of keeping their dog confined when I asked to have Kaos out. Was very stressful!

[The Spotted Devil]

Maybe crate the brother? :D

[Pjrt]

Sorry if this sounds a bit blunt, but do people really take their dogs out, along with a crate to put them in, and set up at the location (friend, relative etc) if it's just for several hours, say, less than 6 to 8 hrs? I don't understand this at all. I take Gruf for a good run, throw him a bone and off I go. He can relax at home with indoor/outdoor access and do what he wants for a while.

[Kavik]

No, I generally leave the dogs at home. I only take a dog if it has been prearranged as OK, and normally it is visiting doggy friends or occasionally relatives, sometimes for a few days over Christmas.

But if I do take the dog, I bring a crate with me.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Kavik

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Gawd - I'm glad I'm not the only one...

I have a crate that lives in the car now (which reminds me - the bed in it needs a wash). It's been very handy when I've taken my dog on a long trip (over night at country cousins) and then visited other country cousins who say - no dogs inside but they don't have fences etc or shade for my car. There are so many occasions when a crate can go into a reliably shady place and keep your dog safe. (even if some other dog pees on it).

The main time it's useful has been at hockey games on grass fields... can get a bit funny when other players don't realise it's a crate with a dog in it not some sort of box or table. One player thought it would be a good place to put her injured ankle up and tried to move the box... oops.

Frosty spent the entire walk at the beach this morning on lead because she was naughty and preferred chicken bones over recall - I'm definitely going to have to figure out how to trade for high value treats ie practice with maybe some chunks of frozen roast chicken so I can get her to give it up instead of stealing and running.

I got yelled at because one of the beach front places she went was "private property". Yelling at someone who is trying to catch their dog does not help. I never think of good come back lines when that's happening - I really need to tune out the outside noise.

And yet someone else on the beach with a staffy cart horse - looked at my dog all polite loose lead and said why can't you be more like that dog... we didn't let the dogs greet (I try to avoid greetings with pulling dogs). And yet my dog - when we went into the water - suddenly became a sled dog. WTF.

She always brings me new challenges - but it's sad I can't bring herding dog to play with giant poodle x.

It's very tempting to offer to borrow poodle x to train it - but given my own training failures - I'm a bit reluctant.

[OSoSwift]

Sorry if this sounds a bit blunt, but do people really take their dogs out, along with a crate to put them in, and set up at the location (friend, relative etc) if it's just for several hours, say, less than 6 to 8 hrs? I don't understand this at all. I take Gruf for a good run, throw him a bone and off I go. He can relax at home with indoor/outdoor access and do what he wants for a while.

No I wouldn't then.

The only time I have is when I have travelled to stay say at my parents or nanies house (500 to 750kms each way) and then had a birthday party or something whilst there. If it was for a few hours or day I would leave them home.

I only take my dogs to the city etc if I am taking them to trial/show. Other than that they go to the kennels or my kennel right hand person house sits them all.

[dididog]

I used to take Didi everywhere with me. Friend's houses, cafes/restaurants, the city, the chiropractor even and while it was fun as soon as she started becoming intolerant of people in her space it became necessary to reassess her coming everywhere.

So now I have a bit of a flow chart of 'when to take the dog'.

First step is, is it necessary? Does the dog have to come with me to this thing/am I not able to leave her at home?

If the answer is no, it's not necessary I go to the next step of will she enjoy herself?

Is she likely to be stressed/scared by something? Will she be really bored or expected to behave at a level unreasonably expected of her? Will she get too hot/be completely exhausted but still need to keep going? Will she be in unreasonable danger?

If the answer is yes she will enjoy herself I go to the next step. If she will not enjoy herself and it's not necessary, that's where the decision making process ends, she doesn't come.

If she will enjoy herself the next step is will I enjoy myself?

Will I be really limited in where she can come/what she can do? Will I be overly distracted or constantly needing to avoid things? Will I be getting into arguments with other people about her being with me? Will she be unlikely to behave and therefore make me frustrated at her? There is no point taking her out with me if it's not necessary if I will spend the whole time wishing she weren't there. For instance I'd like to go to the Dogs Victoria day out for dogs on the weekend but I know it is likely Didi will be overly excited and high strung and I don't want to be attached to 45kg of crazy all day.

If however it is necessary that she come with me despite the answer being no to will she enjoy herself and will I enjoy myself then I look at how to manage the situation best I can, like you have with the crate at your cousin's house in the country.

In doing this, nearly every time I take the dog out we have a good time and there are very few instances where she gets to rehearse her reactivity :)

Edited December 13, 2014 by Terri S.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I love your post Terri - makes the whole process so clear...

So running the flow chart for last night (and christmas day)

First step is, is it necessary? Does the dog have to come with me to this thing/am I not able to leave her at home?

-> No

will she enjoy herself?

-> Not most of the time

Is she likely to be stressed/scared by something?

-> yes

Will she be really bored or expected to behave at a level unreasonably expected of her?

-> yes

Will she get too hot/be completely exhausted but still need to keep going?

-> no

Will she be in unreasonable danger?

-> no not if I'm allowed to use the crate.

Will I enjoy myself if she's with me? break down:

-----------------------------------------------------

Will I spend the whole time wishing she weren't there

-> yes some of the time - when I'm expected to be talking to people or she's being harrassed by dogs or children.

Will I be really limited in where she can come/what she can do?

-> yes - we'll both be limited

Will I be overly distracted or constantly needing to avoid things?

-> YES

Will I be getting into arguments with other people about her being with me?

-> YES (but this happens whether I take her or not.)

Will she be unlikely to behave and therefore make me frustrated at her?

-> yes but I guess I kind of expect it in the circumstances so don't get mad at her. There's usually some preventable reason for her misbehaviour (eg the person feeling sorry for the dog and feeding it in the crate without asking).

Sometimes I guess wrong about whether she will be happy at someone else's place, but mostly - if there are going to be other herding dogs or dogs that aren't in your face all the time - she does ok. And if the people I'm visiting don't give me a hard time for putting her in the crate when I can't be supervising the dog - like you supervise a toddler... then I don't get stressed.

I do get a bit stressed because when I'm out for a long time (eg christmas lunch / dinner) I worry about her being locked in the house. I suppose the worst that has happened is she's had an accident in the house. Which I clean up. No big deal I suppose.