Food Sensitivities

[leopuppy04]

Hi All,

I'm going through a bit of a food issue with one of my Aussies at the moment. We have tried a lot of things and are sort of at the point of really needing to cut back to basics, go bland and work out what his sensitivities are - if at all.

The background:

No issues with overall health, but fecal matter is inconsistent and he can go up to 4-5 times on a walk (never that much at home!). Range from 1st usually being normal, 2nd, fairly normal and 3rd semi formed (and so on). I changed his diet from a super premium dry to another brand, this helped for a bit, then tried grain free. This again helped for a bit and then we went to 80% raw. Recent weeks has upset his tum again (like I said, not the runs per-se... but just not normal!) and I now have him on Chick/Rice and I/D which is NOT improving things - he is still soft after being on it for a week and I would say perhaps a little worse.

We ARE booked in for the vet later this week but I would like to hear what others experiences are and any suggestions. I am fairly experienced at food elimination trials and these sorts of things, so various addatives and such have already been tried. All under the advice of those more experienced of course!

My Concerns:

I want my boy to be on a mostly raw diet as I think this is what is best for him. I'm happy to try Z/D for a short period of time (to get everything back on track so to speak), but I really don't want to feed him on this for his life unless it is an absolute must. I am in complete support of keeping him on a bland/ simple diet for a short period (read: 6-12mths) is necessary, but I am also concerned that keeping him on a bland diet may increase his sensitivities (again, this could be absolutely incorrect and I'm just making things up!)

Suggestoins welcome please!

[Dogsfevr]

My first stop would be a bowen person to see if any of the stomach muscles have been pulled which can cause all sorts of toilet issues

[The Spotted Devil]

If it's any help Zig poos at least 6-7 times out walking and I believe it's certainly a marking thing with him based on his behaviour.

I've been lucky so far in that I have been able to pinpoint issues. Em scratched like crazy within 24 hours of being on dry food containing corn and recovered just as quickly.

I just ran a Z/D elimination diet with one of my kits (Lilly) and it was the best thing ever - at this point we've introduced her beloved chicken necks and chicken meat chunks no problem and also her dry food. We are just starting to introduce one flavour at a time of Eagle Pack wet. The big one was beef - threw up immediately and plucked violently within 24 hours of keeping a meal down. We took the elimination and introduction of foods VERY slowly. Although my vet tells me that Z/D doesn't work for all!

[brightstar123]

Interestingly I have had two dogs here recently that have had similar issues - normal poops at home or on days with low activity but during walks/exercise etc they will poop multiple times and the first is usually normal, then so on, as you described. The female will poop at the beginning of an intensive exercise period regardless of whether she really needs to go (usually quite soft) - perhaps from being kennelled in the past or perhaps because exercise and/or stress can increase bowel motility.

The entire male seems to try and poop all over the whole park, almost like a marking behaviour. I have had to stop him from repeatedly straining as it just seems to worsen the transient diarrhoea. It's quite odd. At home though, both dogs produce formed, normal faeces and seem to have no other issues with their diet or health. It also seems to be something that doesn't vary much according to diet - for example both dogs have been on premium dry and 100% raw and it still happens.

Were you getting normal faeces on the original diet, apart from the exercise periods? Are there any other signs of digestive problems like bloating, stomach rumblings, vomiting, weight loss, lethargy, poor appetite, poor coat, itching etc? How did he go on the 80% raw diet? Does your dog get very excited/stressed about going for a walk/exercise?

[kayla1]

No issues with overall health, but fecal matter is inconsistent and he can go up to 4-5 times on a walk (never that much at home!). Range from 1st usually being normal, 2nd, fairly normal and 3rd semi formed (and so on).

One of my dogs does this - same thing, starts off normal then gets more and more runny each time. Only on walks, never at home. I thought with her that it was a type of stress/excitement induced IBS causing the problem (stress/excitement from the walk since she never does it at home).

[brightstar123]

If it's any help Zig poos at least 6-7 times out walking and I believe it's certainly a marking thing with him based on his behaviour.

Didn't see this post before I wrote mine - so interesting to hear of other entire males that could be marking like this! Are the poos normal the whole time?

[The Spotted Devil]

If it's any help Zig poos at least 6-7 times out walking and I believe it's certainly a marking thing with him based on his behaviour.

Didn't see this post before I wrote mine - so interesting to hear of other entire males that could be marking like this! Are the poos normal the whole time?

They do get slightly runnier with each one. The last one is usually not even worth getting a bag out for :laugh:

He does a LOT of scraping behaviour around it and will try to poo on anything that is slightly higher than the ground - bushes, tree trunks and even on rocks. But he is a bit of a drop kick that way :D

[brightstar123]

Yep that's exactly the same as this guy! Tree bases are the preferred spot around here but we don't have many rocks :)

Sounds like yours is a bit better though - mine is no bag from about halfway on!

Jokes aside, I actually thought it was quite uncommon for males to use faeces to mark?

[persephone]

Sounds like some of ours as well - they will use up whatever is in there- even if it's not ready to be evacuated! Tops of bushes are a favourite spot to leave a deposit .

Excitement/stress does add to the frequency when on walks ...

.

if it were mine- I'd not fiddle with diet yet .

Does this dog do the same thing whatever the environment? park /beach /controlled walk around a few blocks/walking in a built up area?

[leopuppy04]

If it's any help Zig poos at least 6-7 times out walking and I believe it's certainly a marking thing with him based on his behaviour.

I've been lucky so far in that I have been able to pinpoint issues. Em scratched like crazy within 24 hours of being on dry food containing corn and recovered just as quickly.

I just ran a Z/D elimination diet with one of my kits (Lilly) and it was the best thing ever - at this point we've introduced her beloved chicken necks and chicken meat chunks no problem and also her dry food. We are just starting to introduce one flavour at a time of Eagle Pack wet. The big one was beef - threw up immediately and plucked violently within 24 hours of keeping a meal down. We took the elimination and introduction of foods VERY slowly. Although my vet tells me that Z/D doesn't work for all!

Interesting - I think it's worth chatting to vet about maybe - or do you think it's just better to keep him on the diet I think is best? I wonder if he does have *some* sensitivities to wheat/ chicken so I've tried to reduce all of this and it has returned best results...

Interestingly I have had two dogs here recently that have had similar issues - normal poops at home or on days with low activity but during walks/exercise etc they will poop multiple times and the first is usually normal, then so on, as you described. The female will poop at the beginning of an intensive exercise period regardless of whether she really needs to go (usually quite soft) - perhaps from being kennelled in the past or perhaps because exercise and/or stress can increase bowel motility.

The entire male seems to try and poop all over the whole park, almost like a marking behaviour. I have had to stop him from repeatedly straining as it just seems to worsen the transient diarrhoea. It's quite odd. At home though, both dogs produce formed, normal faeces and seem to have no other issues with their diet or health. It also seems to be something that doesn't vary much according to diet - for example both dogs have been on premium dry and 100% raw and it still happens.

Were you getting normal faeces on the original diet, apart from the exercise periods? Are there any other signs of digestive problems like bloating, stomach rumblings, vomiting, weight loss, lethargy, poor appetite, poor coat, itching etc? How did he go on the 80% raw diet? Does your dog get very excited/stressed about going for a walk/exercise?

It sounds as though you have pretty much described my dog exactly! He likes to poop multiple times a walk, often spinning and trying to get it on bushes/ trees/ anywhere that he has generally been sniffing around. I'm always told that it's rare for a male to scent mark with feces so that's why I ruled that out. I was always getting 'normal' feces on the first 1-2 poops and then it seemed to loose form. I also found that the runniest (upset tummy exempt) poops I would get in the yard would be semi-formed - ie: fine on the ground but doesn't keep shape when you pick it up! His poops have definitely improved on raw food (but I thought maybe a type of meat might have upset him, hence the food trials) and no other symptoms of IBD/IBS other than pooping! Never vomiting/ lethargy or any weight loss (until now when he is on I/D and it doesn't have the same nutritional value to raw!)

If it's any help Zig poos at least 6-7 times out walking and I believe it's certainly a marking thing with him based on his behaviour.

Didn't see this post before I wrote mine - so interesting to hear of other entire males that could be marking like this! Are the poos normal the whole time?

They do get slightly runnier with each one. The last one is usually not even worth getting a bag out for :laugh:

He does a LOT of scraping behaviour around it and will try to poo on anything that is slightly higher than the ground - bushes, tree trunks and even on rocks. But he is a bit of a drop kick that way :D

Yep - we scruff and kick a lot too!

Sounds like some of ours as well - they will use up whatever is in there- even if it's not ready to be evacuated! Tops of bushes are a favourite spot to leave a deposit .

Excitement/stress does add to the frequency when on walks ...

.

if it were mine- I'd not fiddle with diet yet .

Does this dog do the same thing whatever the environment? park /beach /controlled walk around a few blocks/walking in a built up area?

Generally in built up areas - when out bush walking he will poop much less. On the beach, I tend to only get soft poops (which I always assumed was the salt water/ insane running)...

[leopuppy04]

My first stop would be a bowen person to see if any of the stomach muscles have been pulled which can cause all sorts of toilet issues

We have this booked in too! Hopefully in the next week or so

[The Spotted Devil]

As I understand it (and this is what I did) you really need to have them on Z/D for a few months and then introduce each food for a month as it can take a long time to get stuff out of their system and, conversely, react to it. I thought it would be really onerous but Lilly loved the food and it was pretty simple - she was on a mix of wet and dry.

[leopuppy04]

As I understand it (and this is what I did) you really need to have them on Z/D for a few months and then introduce each food for a month as it can take a long time to get stuff out of their system and, conversely, react to it. I thought it would be really onerous but Lilly loved the food and it was pretty simple - she was on a mix of wet and dry.

What made you go down this path if you don't mind my asking? What were your symptoms?

And yep - that is what I understand too.

[The Spotted Devil]

As I understand it (and this is what I did) you really need to have them on Z/D for a few months and then introduce each food for a month as it can take a long time to get stuff out of their system and, conversely, react to it. I thought it would be really onerous but Lilly loved the food and it was pretty simple - she was on a mix of wet and dry.

What made you go down this path if you don't mind my asking? What were your symptoms?

And yep - that is what I understand too.

It was for Lilly but she started plucking her hair out about 6 months after Brontë died. I assumed it was stress and change as they were very close and she was howling a lot and very clingy. I took her to my vet who insisted we approach it methodically. Started by treating for fleas first and trying her on anti-inflammatory meds for 10 days. These also had an anti-anxiety side effect. She really improved but deteriorated after about a week. My vet thought it could be an allergy exacerbated by her anxiety (ie over reacts to the slightest irritation) and suggested we go down the Z/D path just to check diet. We were all surprised at how dramatic her progress has been. She still plucks if we are very late with her dinner or if I am away from home too much so I think it was always a combination. She's 10 but it's not unusual for food allergies to appear later in life with cats - I still think it may have been triggered by the sudden changes here.

[karly101]

I recommend a z/d food trial... my boy had similar issues. Initially I discovered he was allergic to gelatin (in his medication). Then decided to go to z/d - everything stabilised. I introduced one protein at the time and discovered his allergies - pork (severe reaction of vomiting and diarr), and beef (diarr). He can have lamb but only a little bit.

Interesting thing is he developed these allergies later in life as at 9 months he had a food allergy trial and his diet was pork and potatoes and he was fine then!

I could change him back onto a normal diet I think but he seems to thrive on the z/d so I have kept him on it - it does make it easier to identify if something has upset his tummy.

[Kajtek]

When you are ready for a change, please have a look at http://www.caninecountry.com.au/

My team has been on this for years (one with very sensitive tummy) and I am more than happy to recommend this food.

[leopuppy04]

I recommend a z/d food trial... my boy had similar issues. Initially I discovered he was allergic to gelatin (in his medication). Then decided to go to z/d - everything stabilised. I introduced one protein at the time and discovered his allergies - pork (severe reaction of vomiting and diarr), and beef (diarr). He can have lamb but only a little bit.

Interesting thing is he developed these allergies later in life as at 9 months he had a food allergy trial and his diet was pork and potatoes and he was fine then!

I could change him back onto a normal diet I think but he seems to thrive on the z/d so I have kept him on it - it does make it easier to identify if something has upset his tummy.

Thanks for the info Karly.

yep, it's quite normal for dogs to develop sensitivities later in life :)

[leopuppy04]

When you are ready for a change, please have a look at http://www.caninecountry.com.au/

My team has been on this for years (one with very sensitive tummy) and I am more than happy to recommend this food.

Thanks Kajtek :). I like to make my own Raw - it's cheaper and I know exactly what is in it too :). Hopefully I can get him back on a raw diet!

[LisaCC]

LP, you can do an elimination diet with raw, you just need a novel protein he hasn't had before like kangaroo. Vets will advise on the details, I've used kangaroo, rice(or potato) and a human multivitamin for a long term one.

Nova has poop issues with Chicken, that would be my first thing to eliminate.

When doing an elimination diet I like to get weekly weights too, some foods may seem good poop wise, but they could drop weight on them to dramatically.

Edited December 12, 2014 by LisaCC

[leopuppy04]

LP, you can do an elimination diet with raw, you just need a novel protein he hasn't had before like kangaroo. Vets will advise on the details, I've used kangaroo, rice(or potato) and a human multivitamin for a long term one.

Nova has poop issues with Chicken, that would be my first thing to eliminate.

When doing an elimination diet I like to get weekly weights too, some foods may seem good poop wise, but they could drop weight on them to dramatically.

thanks LisaCC - the only issue is with my dogs being very lucky and having a 'variety' to raw - there is not a meat we can think of that is completely novel for KK and easy to source